BBC News - Train drivers overwhelmingly middle-aged white men

[thenorthern]

Just seen this article

Train drivers overwhelmingly middle-aged white men​

The average train driver is 46 years old, male and white, according to new data compiled by an industry body.

The National Skills Academy for Rail (NSAR) figures show that only one in ten drivers are non-white, with even fewer being women.
The rail industry has long recognised itself as being one of the least diverse employment sectors.

Southern Railway said it is trying to enable a wider range of people to apply for jobs.

Donna Pryce is an apprentice driver at the company, on a training course at Selhurst Depot near Croydon.

"It was my experience, growing up, that all the drivers were fifty-plus, white men," she said.

"But lately I am seeing a lot more diversity. More younger people, black people, women. I'm here for it, I love it!"

22-year-old George Browning, from Portsmouth, is Southern's youngest trainee driver.

He said: "It has been a dream goal for me since I was a little boy. The median age of train drivers is quite high, so I definitely feel like one of the young ones. Age doesn't matter, but I'm proud to achieve that at a young age." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-68921391

Not sure what the point of the article is though, it's always been the case that most train drivers are male.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That might just be because that's who the job mostly appeals to. It doesn't strike me that there's likely to be much barrier to other demographics these days. And you'd expect the average in any job you tend to hold for life to be middle aged, as that's just the average!

 

[Class800]

Just seen this article



Not sure what the point of the article is though, it's always been the case that most train drivers are male.

I would say many 46 year olds would feel hard done by being called middle age these days. That's more 50s and 60s.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I do think though, who cares? As long as people are not discriminatory when hiring, and make sure that people are getting hired based on their suitability for the job alone, with no prejudices, then it shouldn't matter. It only matters if hiring middle-aged white men has been deliberately tactical.

What I don't agree with is the mass hiring of people from minority groups JUST to make a company look diverse, which we're seeing a lot of in broadcasting lately actually. Now I can't speak for women or people of ethnic diversity, but if I were hired specifically because I have ADHD and my other half is a dude (and these are both diversity factors that BBC and other organisations ask you on applications), rather than because I'm a good journalist, I'd be fuming. It's borderline insulting to be cherry-picked for things like that. I'd rather be hired for my suitability for the role.

And similarly, I would want Southern to hire me if they thought I'd be a loyal and committed member of the team, and a good driver, not because I'm 21, bisexual and hyperactive. Come to think of it, I did safety announcements for Northern until they were replaced recently. I thought it was my ability to do a convincing Yorkshire accent, but perhaps that was why.

 

[chuff chuff]

Think Aslef are committed to a large increase in the number of women drivers.

 

[Geezertronic]

Must be a slow news day

 

[Fermiboson]

I do think though, who cares? As long as people are not discriminatory when hiring, and make sure that people are getting hired based on their suitability for the job alone, with no prejudices, then it shouldn't matter. It only matters if hiring middle-aged white men has been deliberately tactical.

What I don't agree with is the mass hiring of people from minority groups JUST to make a company look diverse, which we're seeing a lot of in broadcasting lately actually. Now I can't speak for women or people of ethnic diversity, but if I were hired specifically because I have ADHD and my other half is a dude (and these are both diversity factors that BBC and other organisations ask you on applications), rather than because I'm a good journalist, I'd be fuming. It's borderline insulting to be cherry-picked for things like that. I'd rather be hired for my suitability for the role.

And similarly, I would want Southern to hire me if they thought I'd be a loyal and committed member of the team, and a good driver, not because I'm 20, bisexual and hyperactive.

This - forced diversity generally just gives legitimate openings for malicious actors to accuse minority groups of incompetence and exploiting the system, when there are plenty of people belonging to all sorts of minority groups that can get into places perfectly well without the patronisation of a system which, having deliberately made their life difficult for a good long while, has suddenly decided it’s time to sing kumbaya.

There’s something to be said about why women are less interested in train driving, or other minority groups are similarly less likely to pursue careers where they are underrepresented - the lack of women in STEM being another good example - but employment stage is definitely not the stage at which to fix it. And I find that “result-oriented” diversity headlines like these generally exist for political brownie points more than any sort of altruism.

 

[43066]

Just seen this article



Not sure what the point of the article is though, it's always been the case that most train drivers are male.

A complete non story fishing for a discrimination angle.

The simple explanation is that the UK population is 75% white, and ageing, and very few women want to be train drivers. TOCs are falling over themselves to hire more women, but you’re never going to get a 50/50 split between men and women. There is a fair bit of ethnic diversity amongst drivers in areas where that reflects the local population such as London, for example.

It also takes a long time for hiring trends to show through as people tend to remain in the grade for many years. I’m actually surprised the average age is as low as 46, I had understood it to be in the 50s

I do think though, who cares? As long as people are not discriminatory when hiring, and make sure that people are getting hired based on their suitability for the job alone, with no prejudices, then it shouldn't matter. It only matters if hiring middle-aged white men has been deliberately tactical.

What I don't agree with is the mass hiring of people from minority groups JUST to make a company look diverse, which we're seeing a lot of in broadcasting lately actually. Now I can't speak for women or people of ethnic diversity, but if I were hired specifically because I have ADHD and my other half is a dude (and these are both diversity factors that BBC and other organisations ask you on applications), rather than because I'm a good journalist, I'd be fuming. It's borderline insulting to be cherry-picked for things like that. I'd rather be hired for my suitability for the role.

And similarly, I would want Southern to hire me if they thought I'd be a loyal and committed member of the team, and a good driver, not because I'm 20, bisexual and hyperactive.

Well said.

 

[Howardh]

What's the oldest you can be to train to be a driver? Not that I'm thinking that at nearly 66! Also is retirement forced at a certain age or can you drive at any age as long as you are capable?

 

[birchesgreen]

What's the oldest you can be to train to be a driver? Not that I'm thinking that at nearly 66! Also is retirement forced at a certain age or can you drive at any age as long as you are capable?

I did read a while ago about a 57 year old (white male natch) who changed career (office job i think) and trained to become a tube driver.

 

[Geeves]

All of the recent recruitment drives at my TOC have specifically targeted female, minorities, LGBTQ etc so it isn't as if the will isn't there to help the diversity. Like others have said it's a none story really. If they want to look at things deeper maybe they should look at where the majority of train drivers come from first (employment wise) and ask those industries what's going on with the recruitment? I don't think the railway can be blamed for that if they are the ones passing the tests, interviews and training.

 

[birchesgreen]

There are quite a lot of industries were one gender, demographic dominates. Most marketing departments i have been involved/worked for with tend to be 80+% staffed by youngish females. It only seems to be an issue when its white males though.

 

[moleman212]

I suppose the managers at LNER will be aghast and push forward a diversity drive post-haste. I single out LNER only because VTEC seemed keen to recruit a lot of managers into non-jobs and I have heard little else to suggest the top heavy headcount has been thinned out.

 

[Class800]

All of the recent recruitment drives at my TOC have specifically targeted female, minorities, LGBTQ etc so it isn't as if the will isn't there to help the diversity. Like others have said it's a none story really. If they want to look at things deeper maybe they should look at where the majority of train drivers come from first (employment wise) and ask those industries what's going on with the recruitment? I don't think the railway can be blamed for that if they are the ones passing the tests, interviews and training.

That could be gamed. Anyone can self-declare as Bisexual if it would benefit their career (not that it should!). It doesn't normally mean having 2 partners one male one female at the same time so can't be proved or disproved

 

[Egg Centric]

Would diversity actually be useful for train driving? The arguments for diversity being commercially useful (as opposed to the social egalitarian ones) are supposed to be about differences of opinion and life experience to enable institutional creativity and "thinking outside the box", but I thought drivers were specficially selected these days to be as conformist as possible?

 

[richfoz84]

Pointless article.

If you pass the application stage, the psychometric tests, and your interview, your good enough to get the chance to be a train driver.

Gender, race or sexuality is totally irrelevant.

 

[gabrielhj07]

Must be a slow news day at Broadcasting House.

 

[12LDA28C]

I look forward to reading the BBC News article tomorrow bemoaning the fact that 86% of midwives are white women. I'm sure that's coming, right?

 

[richa2002]

All of the recent recruitment drives at my TOC have specifically targeted female, minorities, LGBTQ etc so it isn't as if the will isn't there to help the diversity.

Which is disgraceful in itself and blatant sexism, racism and whatever ism you want to attach to sexuality. The fact this kind of thing is said these days without as much of a blink of the eye is bonkers.

 

[VP185]

I suppose the managers at LNER will be aghast and push forward a diversity drive post-haste. I single out LNER only because VTEC seemed keen to recruit a lot of managers into non-jobs and I have heard little else to suggest the top heavy headcount has been thinned out.

LNER aren’t the only ones then! GWR seem now to make up roles and appoint new managers/director to them on a weekly basis. There’s even Wellbeing Managers! There’s one simple solution to significantly increasing wellbeing but this is probably not the thread!

 

[irish_rail]

Being completely anecdotal, I wouldn't say from what I see that female or ethnic minorities make better train drivers than their male counterparts. So what exactly is the issue here? Why can't TOCs just employ the best candidate? A recruitment process where the employer was blind to the gender, ethnicity, etc of the candidate throughout would be the best way of recruiting the BEST people. Train driving is a very specific skill, and alot of people simply can't do it. Trying to persuade those who may not be suitable to apply is in my view reckless.

 

[class 9]

In other news, the nursing profession is overwhelmingly female!

 

[Class15]

In other news, the nursing profession is overwhelmingly female!

Indeed. This article comes across as a bit of a rant. Railways have always been a men’s interest as younger people, so this is hardly news. Poor that the BBC is posting this stuff.

 

[Mat17]

In other news, the nursing profession is overwhelmingly female!

And teaching.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Not sure what the point of the article is though

Absolutely zero point, other than some media person with a very large wooden spoon trying to stir the muck. As long as someone is proved competent to do the job (in all respects), then other matters, skin colour (the subject that seems to be driving this piece and going back many years, possibly the original basis for the 'diversity' industry, as is often the case) is completely and utterly irrelevant.

What I don't agree with is the mass hiring of people from minority groups JUST to make a company look diverse,

Quite so. As above, being competent in the roll has to be the driving factor (excuse the pun - all roles, all industries I should have stressed).

A complete non story fishing for a discrimination angle.

The simple explanation is that the UK population is 75% white,

Exactly. On a serious note for anyone more widely travelled than I, I ask this: do other countries (majority non white) suffer from this same sort of media introspection and questioning/emphasis on diversity on a % basis of their population(s), or is this (largely) a thing that happens in UK?
My genuine concern is that the 'diversity' business may well be doing more harm than good, amongst many groups? There will always be 'racism' of one sort or another amongst a minority of people, and it happens between different groups who all share darker skin colour as well, but this seems to largely escape the media attention as far as I can tell?

I look forward to reading the BBC News article tomorrow bemoaning the fact that 86% of midwives are white women. I'm sure that's coming, right?

You and me both...

 

[Ashley Hill]

Sometimes I feel white middle aged men are being discriminated against by the media. I’ve really no idea why this should be. Like others have said,slow news day! Oh ,and an impending drivers strike!!

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Sometimes I feel white middle aged men are being discriminated against by the media

Or at very least being ignored (or what's the phrase? 'Airbrushed') out of our own history and culture. May have the wrong phrase there - showing my age !

 

[Russel]

If any media organization was to publish an article like this, it had to be the BBC!

 

[Mat17]

I ignore the BBC, they are irrelevant.

 

[ScottGallagher]

Must be why Avanti salivate on linked in over the female driver campaign.

Too add one in Most primary school teachers are female, where in fact a male teacher in some circumstances could be more effective, of course nobody will bring that up.