BBC1 Drama Nightsleeper

[ScotTrains]

Wasn't that Steward "Methadone Mike" from Still Game?

It was indeed Methadone Mick! Nice to see he's now got a wee job on the railways. I guess working at the Craiglang library wasn't for him.

 

[DiscoSteve]

Amd if all else fails cut the power supply to the OHLE.

Even my missus said that watching it tonight FFS!

Out of interest the hack device was the same one I use to control my Model Railway (actually just a tram right now) it was even described as such (in mysterious code) during the programme "thats an SBC" said the heroine trapped on the GatEx Party Train - SBC => Single Board Computer - I even have a winky LED display attached to mine just like in this TV programme too!

 

[popeter45]

Even my missus said that watching it tonight FFS!

Out of interest the hack device was the same one I use to control my Model Railway (actually just a tram right now) it was even described as such (in mysterious code) during the programme "thats an SBC" said the heroine trapped on the GatEx Party Train - SBC => Single Board Computer - I even have a winky LED display attached to mine just like in this TV programme too!

Yea it was a raspberry pi, useful for both hobby projects and hacking

They do cover the OHLE plot hole in ep2

 

[Northerngirl]

Most of the stupidity in the first 2 episodes is in the plot rather than the logic of the trains, a few silly acronyms but I think we can let them get away with the train protection systems being hacked.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Watched all six episodes last night. Could not let go after myself and step son watched episode one and so we crept to our beds at almost 4am !.

I would say as someone who knows enough about the railways it was a bit cringe-ingly inaccurate. But for a non-railway person it was a good film.

I do wonder how many fears it is going to stoke up.
1) Is the sleeper train dangerous - fire hazard (probably untrue).
2) Is the sleeper train vulnerable to hacking.
3) Is any other train vulnerable to hacking (depends on as age multiple units newer than Mk3 based have a windows operating system but how accessible is this to the outside world).
4) Is the network control (signalling) vulnerable to hacking (not as a whole because I guess it is still several different types of signalling and possibly not connected very well, plus some areas are still controlled by manual signal boxes).

I think this does show up how fragmented the railway is and its vulnerability especially as responsibility is spread across the globe. But would the general non-railway audience notice or understand this. I think that was certainly the agenda of the script writers.

Without diving too much away for those yet to watch it I think the twist at the end tends to water down the earlier messages/points.

 

[jadmor]

When the train left Euston, the clock had shown it was almost Midnight. Why did it leave in twilight.

Wasn't it going the other way, from Glasgow Central? Twilight in summer up here is a thing.

 

[PaulJ]

The next episode features this. No one will notice a thing…

 

[800001]

Watched all six episodes last night. Could not let go after myself and step son watched episode one and so we crept to our beds at almost 4am !.

I would say as someone who knows enough about the railways it was a bit cringe-ingly inaccurate. But for a non-railway person it was a good film.

I do wonder how many fears it is going to stoke up.
1) Is the sleeper train dangerous - fire hazard (probably untrue).
2) Is the sleeper train vulnerable to hacking.
3) Is any other train vulnerable to hacking (depends on as age multiple units newer than Mk3 based have a windows operating system but how accessible is this to the outside world).
4) Is the network control (signalling) vulnerable to hacking (not as a whole because I guess it is still several different types of signalling and possibly not connected very well, plus some areas are still controlled by manual signal boxes).

I think this does show up how fragmented the railway is and its vulnerability especially as responsibility is spread across the globe. But would the general non-railway audience notice or understand this. I think that was certainly the agenda of the script writers.

Without diving too much away for those yet to watch it I think the twist at the end tends to water down the earlier messages/points.

I’ve watched the first 3 and I agree with you, for a none railway person it’s very good.

I liked how they were talking about TOCS, FOCS, ROCS, ROSCOs etc.

It does seem like there has been some research into railway operation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

1) Is the sleeper train dangerous - fire hazard (probably untrue).

Sleepers are more vulnerable to fire (because people are asleep so it may go unnoticed), which is why the fire-related standards are much higher than for seated trains. This resulted in input to the spec of the Mk3 sleepers after a serious fire in some Mk1s at Taunton in 1978.

 

[MP33]

There were comparisons with another Transport disaster story.

Where is the little girl on the Dialysis Machine.
The singing Nun.
The two Black men talking in their private language.
The Police Officer has a backstory that he insists on telling other passengers, that drives them to despair.
Why did the Driver not invite the little boy into the Cab? To ask him, do you like Roman Gladiators and hanging around the Gym.
The train manager could have been played by a Scottish Footballer. He could tell the little boy that, you have got the wrong person. When he is carried out, he was wearing shorts and football socks under his trousers.

The Woman in the IT Centre, could say. This is the wrong time to stop, sniffing glue, taking drugs and drinking.

 

[Northerngirl]

I’ve watched the first 3 and I agree with you, for a none railway person it’s very good.

I liked how they were talking about TOCS, FOCS, ROCS, ROSCOs etc.

It does seem like there has been some research into railway operation.

Yeh someone who has a decent understanding of railway politics has definitely been involved with the writing.

I think the threat of hacking isn't entirely unreasonable, although there could some kind of part pairing security like when you get a new iPhone screen, but if someone has managed to get that deep into a manufacturer's it systems they've probably got alot of financial information too, much more valuable than anything youd get from threatening to crash one train, but that would be a very dull story

 

[65477]

It does seem like there has been some research into railway operation.

Being confined to bed, yesterday , with some form of lurgi, I have viewed all 6 episodes. I have also read the credits and among the numerous people woking on the programme I did not not see anyone credited as a railway advisor. Much of the railway jargon could have been picked up from reading about the current railways bill. Having worked in computer forensics there were inconsistencies in that part of the story as well.

For people without a knowledge of railways the repeated use of ROC was probably not useful surely signal box would have been more understandable?

Every episode had inconsistencies but to list them at this time would lead to spoilers but I will one of the most glaring is at the end of the trains journey. Lastly I would query who at Network Rail gave permission for those scenes that were filmed on their property.

For a little light reading see

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5efcace9e90e075c52d05a94/rail-cyber-security-guidance-to-industry-document.pdf

 

[Bornin1980s]

The reviews are in.
theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2024/sep/15/nightsleeper-review-fantastically-dreadful

The writer wonders why the conductor couldn't knock on the driver's door. I suppose the confusion arose from the use of an EMU cab, rather than a locomotive.

 

[Sealink]

Definitely the Caley Sleeper!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does beg the question as to why they spent money on CGIing a hybrid 397/diesel loco rather than just taking a video of the real one. Unless the set is a studio reproduction of the Cally and not the actual train.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Does beg the question as to why they spent money on CGIing a hybrid 397/diesel loco rather than just taking a video of the real one. Unless the set is a studio reproduction of the Cally and not the actual train.

There was no real train, was there? Show was filmed at a studio in Glasgow, using three carriages lined up in a row.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Have just endured the first episode and cancelled the series link for the rest. I always think that if a film or program doesn’t catch you in the first 10mins then it isn’t going to catch you at all,and this hasn’t. The only plus side was Sharon Rooney in the bufffet.

 

[65477]

Deleted duplicate post

 

[800001]

There was no real train, was there? Show was filmed at a studio in Glasgow, using three carriages lined up in a row.

Correct all onboard scenes filmed in a studio not far from Glasgow.

 

[Falcon1200]

I think this does show up how fragmented the railway is and its vulnerability

If there really is a risk of the railway being hacked in the way shown, then fragmentation is surely a Good Thing, because more systems would need to be taken over by the criminals/terrorists? Personally I do not believe that the railway is in any way whatsoever vulnerable to the kind of actions shown.

The computer device installed on the train should simply have been ripped out, and to stop the train, eventually, power to the overheads should have been cut, by the railway (unless that system too had been hacked) or the external supplier. But I am glad to see that there was a child in jeopardy, even if it was only one, and not (yet) a bus load stuck on a level crossing....

 

[OliverReed]

I watched the first one and was bored.

 

[sprinterguy]

The computer device installed on the train should simply have been ripped out, and to stop the train, eventually, power to the overheads should have been cut, by the railway (unless that system too had been hacked) or the external supplier. But I am glad to see that there was a child in jeopardy, even if it was only one, and not (yet) a bus load stuck on a level crossing....

All you'd need to stop the train would be a stray helium balloon, to take out the OLE, and a strategically placed trampoline under the wheels to rip out the air lines once on diesel mode. "Hacking" will do b*gger all to overcome that.

 

[Sun Chariot]

All you'd need to stop the train would be a stray helium balloon, to take out the OLE, and a strategically placed trampoline under the wheels to rip out the air lines once on diesel mode.

If they had filmed it between October and January, that train could be brought to a safe stand by leaves / the wrong kind of snow...

 

[popeter45]

If there really is a risk of the railway being hacked in the way shown, then fragmentation is surely a Good Thing, because more systems would need to be taken over by the criminals/terrorists? Personally I do not believe that the railway is in any way whatsoever vulnerable to the kind of actions shown.

The computer device installed on the train should simply have been ripped out, and to stop the train, eventually, power to the overheads should have been cut, by the railway (unless that system too had been hacked) or the external supplier. But I am glad to see that there was a child in jeopardy, even if it was only one, and not (yet) a bus load stuck on a level crossing....

the way they frame it in the show it sounds like the hack actually changed code on the train itself rather than the raspberry pi just jacking into control lines, in such a case removing the device would not regain control and could even trigger whatever code uploaded to the train to react like it ends up doing later on
think of it like if you get a virus off a dodgy download, just removing that download wont remove the virus

they definity seems to think of alot of the gotcha from a rail and cyber perspective

All you'd need to stop the train would be a stray helium balloon, to take out the OLE, and a strategically placed trampoline under the wheels to rip out the air lines once on diesel mode. "Hacking" will do b*gger all to overcome that.

wont spoil apart from the spoiler tag but on the second part they do try somthing similar and backfires massively they try shooting the fuel tank so will drain quicker and it starts a fire in the front carriage

 

[norbitonflyer]

Just to add a continuity error no one else has mentioned yet - the Gatwick Express train the cyber expert left Gatwick on was a 387 at the rear but a 321 at the front (and inside, to judge from the windows).
As it is said that they good guys still have control of the points, the train could have been made to turn left at Carstairs and then go round and round the Edinburgh Suburban until it ran out of diesel'

 

[Mcr Warrior]

As a drama, is anyone else finding it hard to warm to, or positively engage with, any of the characters, with the possible exception of the female lead role? (= 'Abby Aysgarth' the Acting Technical Director at the "National Cyber Security Centre" as portrayed by Alexandra Roach).

 

[GatwickDepress]

Just to add a continuity error no one else has mentioned yet - the Gatwick Express train the cyber expert left Gatwick on was a 387 at the rear but a 321 at the front (and inside, to judge from the windows).
As it is said that they good guys still have control of the points, the train could have been made to turn left at Carstairs and then go round and round the Edinburgh Suburban until it ran out of diesel'

Looks like GTR allowed them to use the branding, but not the trains themselves, so all the external 387 shots at Gatwick Airport are b-roll whilst filming was on a withdrawn 321.

Not really a continuity error in the academic sense, but a practical result of filming limitations.

As a drama, is anyone else finding it hard to warm to, or positively engage with, any of the characters, with the possible exception of the female lead role? (= 'Abby Aysgarth' the Acting Technical Director at the "National Cyber Security Centre" as portrayed by Alexandra Roach).

Yes, the characters are easily the weakest part of the entire series. The Poseidon Adventure this is not.

Katie Leung does a decent job as an insufferable reporter and Sharon Rooney as the buffet host, but the rest of the cast are really quite forgettable and hard to warm up to; especially the Cyber Security Centre folk.

 

[sprinterguy]

If they had filmed it between October and January, that train could be brought to a safe stand by leaves / the wrong kind of snow...

Indeed!

 

[D6130]

We don't have a television at home but - quite by chance - I managed to catch the second episode in my hotel room last night. In general terms, I would agree that the plot, the script and the acting were pretty forgettable....when did they relay the Beattock Summit to Beattock section of the West Coast Main Line using 60 foot jointed rails? Presumably the flat crossing at Gretna Junction, on which 37 714's taker train was standing, carried a line from the Longtown direction?

For me, the acting highlight was the wonderful David Threlfall as the wild-eyed old hippie retired computer programmer and Real Time Trains expert. The James Cosmo character didn't have a lot to say but, judging by his musings about the Quintinshill disaster, I guessed that he was supposed to be a retired railway man and possibly driver? Perhaps someone who saw the first episode will be able to enlighten me?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

...when did they relay the Beattock Summit to Beattock section of the West Coast Main Line using 60 foot jointed rails?

Isn't it obligatory to overlay all railway scenes which have been filmed in a studio with a clickety-clack soundtrack?

The James Cosmo character didn't have a lot to say but, judging by his musings about the Quintinshill disaster, I guessed that he was supposed to be a retired railway man and possibly driver? Perhaps someone who saw the first episode will be able to enlighten me?

James Cosmo's 'Fraser Warren' character is indeed a retired train driver who had previously worked for the "Heart of Britain" sleeper train company. Presume this will have some plot relevance in the episodes still to air.