Beattock Landslip disruption (21/02)

[londonmidland]

Currently at Preston and all AWC Anglo-Scot services are spinning around here, failing to call at stations north of Preston.

TPE are also cancelling all services north of Preston at the time of this post.

From AWC X:

Due to flooding between Lockerbie and Carstairs all lines towards Glasgow and Edinburgh are blocked.

 

[185143]

I'm currently stranded in Wetherspoons in Carlisle. Carlisle station is rammed, there was a TPE unit on platform 1 which I was on and got turned back at Lockerbie. Two TPE units on platform 3 and a Pendo on P4.

I was heading to Glasgow but given up. Seems I'm not heading South anytime soon either so waiting it out with a pint or three. Eyeing up the S&C to Leeds as an option if all else fails.

 

[NIT100]

Scotrail services via Kilmarnock are still running

 

[A S Leib]

I have advance tickets between Newcastle and Glasgow via and splitting at Carlisle for tomorrow. If there's still disruption tomorrow, would I have a better chance trying to go via Edinburgh or asking if I could use the tickets next Saturday?

 

[henryb]

Caledonian sleeper have updated to say that their services will still run… but if flooding caused it and heavy rain continues as planned this evening it seems doubtful, no?

 

[JamesT]

Caledonian sleeper have updated to say that their services will still run… but if flooding caused it and heavy rain continues as planned this evening it seems doubtful, no?

Or they plan to divert via the ECML?

 

[henryb]

I have advance tickets between Newcastle and Glasgow via and splitting at Carlisle for tomorrow. If there's still disruption tomorrow, would I have a better chance trying to go via Edinburgh or asking if I could use the tickets next Saturday?

I’d try to get ticket acceptance from a member of staff on the day.. unlikely they’d be able to be transferred to following Saturday

Or they plan to divert via the ECML?

They’ve messaged: We are aware that the West Coast Main Line is currently closed between Carstairs and Lockerbie due to a landslip. Our industry partners are assessing the damage and plans are in place to enable the line to reopen this evening. We are expecting our services to depart as scheduled but may be subject to some delays as a result of this incident. We will send further updates when we have more information. Please contact us on Live Chat at www.sleeper.scot if you have any questions. We look forward to welcoming you onboard.”

 

[Scotrail84]

Or they plan to divert via the ECML?

Too short notice for a divert. They'll be banking (no pun intended) on the damage being repaired by the time their services run this evening.

 

[RGM654]

Too short notice for a divert. They'll be banking (no pun intended) on the damage being repaired by the time their services run this evening.

On other threads we have had explanations why, with a problem north of Carlisle, some services can't get beyond Preston. But is it not possible for anything to run between Preston and Carlisle?

Unless it's a very very minor landslip I can't see the line reopening for a long while. Or might the slip be only affecting one road so the line can open as single track?

Considering that the Sleeper often runs on the ECML during planned engineering work, why is it impossible to do that tonight?

 

[185143]

On other threads we have had explanations why, with a problem north of Carlisle, some services can't get beyond Preston. But is it not possible for anything to run between Preston and Carlisle?

Unless it's a very very minor landslip I can't see the line reopening for a long while. Or might the slip be only affecting one road so the line can open as single track?

Considering that the Sleeper often runs on the ECML during planned engineering work, why is it impossible to do that tonight?

When I left Carlisle station, there was an Avanti on P4, two TPE units on P3 and the one I alighted on P1. With (IIRC) two stranded Avanti trains North of Carlisle also needing to return. With a ScotRail on P8 too, as well as a freight creeping into one of the middle roads... little if any space at Carlisle to run as far as there.

Northbound services were already disrupted due to 4S43 failing for the second day in a row.

 

[chrisjo]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0l1w3l1zdwo

 

[henryb]

BBC

Doesn’t seem too bad on the face of it -/ but if there are underlying issues than that will cause a proglem

 

[Scotrail84]

On other threads we have had explanations why, with a problem north of Carlisle, some services can't get beyond Preston. But is it not possible for anything to run between Preston and Carlisle?

Unless it's a very very minor landslip I can't see the line reopening for a long while. Or might the slip be only affecting one road so the line can open as single track?

Considering that the Sleeper often runs on the ECML during planned engineering work, why is it impossible to do that tonight?

ECML diverts are planned months in advance, not hours. Extra drivers, locos and crews are required to make this work, not to mention paths as well. It's not just as simple as saying right the West coast is shut, we will just run up the East coast instead. Plus what do you do with all the passengers booked on at Crewe and Preston?

 

[Foxcover]

That 80x TPE have on the WCML route at the moment would be handy if they could find spare G&SW route knowledge for the cab - TPE could do the Avanti ‘not our passenger’ thing and refuse access to non TPE passengers …

 

[route101]

There goes my trip tomorrow. Unfortunately the perils of weather.

 

[Pinus contorta]

Taxi queues were building up at Preston around 1700- the old vic near the station entrance was busy as a result.

 

[Peter0124]

Northbound services were already disrupted due to 4S43 failing for the second day in a row.

It struggled to climb Beattock on Wednesday aswell, so make that 3 in a row!

 

[Pinus contorta]

Oh dear someone on our train to Barrow has been told (by mistake at Preston ) to go to Carlisle via Barrow to get to Glasgow ‍♀️ could be a long wait for them later.

 

[hexagon789]

Oh dear someone on our train to Barrow has been told (by mistake at Preston ) to go to Carlisle via Barrow to get to Glasgow ‍♀️ could be a long wait for them later.

Depending when they arrive in Carlisle - ScotRail Carlisle to Glasgow via Dumfries trains are running albeit slightly delayed due to flooding near Sanquhar and a 40mph ESR.

EDIT: Never mind, the last one has already departed. Apologies for any confusion.

 

[Pinus contorta]

Aha 2145 in Carlisle is quite late. But who knows.....

 

[Sid Edwards]

I always have the suspicion that Avanti turn most trains from the south at Preston for operational convenience because there's normally a crew change there.

It's about time that trains ran for the convenience of the customers rather than the operators.

Surely if there's trouble north of Carlisle crews based at Preston could be asked to do two round trips from Preston to Carlisle rather than one round trip to Glasgow in a shift.

I realise when Glasgow crews are booked to work to Preston and back that wouldn't help but surely a two hourly frequency between Preston and Carlisle would be a help, especially if First Class was declassified to create more standard class accommodation, or am I still in cloud cuckoo land thinking that the customers could be given some sort of service?

 

[RGM654]

ECML diverts are planned months in advance, not hours. Extra drivers, locos and crews are required to make this work, not to mention paths as well. It's not just as simple as saying right the West coast is shut, we will just run up the East coast instead. Plus what do you do with all the passengers booked on at Crewe and Preston?

I accept that it may be impossible but I struggle to understand why. What additional loco or driver is needed besides those to deal with the reversals at Wembley? If paths exist for the planned diversions, why are the same paths not available any other night?
If the train can run on the WCML as planned obviously that is best and doesn't leave anyone stranded. But if the WCML remains blocked and the ECML would be possible, having to make alternative arrangement for a few people at Crewe and Preston would be a lot better than not running at all.

 

[Pinus contorta]

Well someone just quizzed our guard travelling to Barrow and he said there were over 700 people ' displaced' at Preston when we departed at 1738 and he said there were 5 or 6 sets stuck at Carlisle and he didn't know why someone was shunting pax onto our train and they couldn't run any service between Carlisle and Preston direct.

 

[henryb]

Wonder if it will be cleared by Cal Sleeper time - anyone in the know happen to have an idea of how severe it is?

 

[Dfatcontroller]

Depending when they arrive in Carlisle - ScotRail Carlisle to Glasgow via Dumfries trains are running albeit slightly delayed due to flooding near Sanquhar and a 40mph ESR.

EDIT: Never mind, the last one has already departed. Apologies for any confusion.

Whilst the 1759 Carlisle - Glasgow via G&S & GBK is the last through service. There is also the 1922 Carlisle - Dumfries which becomes a Dumfries - Glasgow service.

Wonder if it will be cleared by Cal Sleeper time - anyone in the know happen to have an idea of how severe it is?

Current plans see the work taking place to remove the debris and stabilise the embankment in time for the sleepers to pass.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Surely if there's trouble north of Carlisle crews based at Preston could be asked to do two round trips from Preston to Carlisle rather than one round trip to Glasgow in a shift.

The driver T&Cs agreed by Virgin and still current preclude ‘double tripping’ ie doing two round trips over the same route.

 

[Scotrail84]

I accept that it may be impossible but I struggle to understand why. What additional loco or driver is needed besides those to deal with the reversals at Wembley? If paths exist for the planned diversions, why are the same paths not available any other night?
If the train can run on the WCML as planned obviously that is best and doesn't leave anyone stranded. But if the WCML remains blocked and the ECML would be possible, having to make alternative arrangement for a few people at Crewe and Preston would be a lot better than not running at all.

Additional Craigentinny drivers are required for ECML runs as not all Polmadie drivers sign East Coast. Additional drivers are needed to be in place at Doncaster as well. Thats not including the extra drivers needed on the dayshift to do the drag backs, also worth bearing in mind that not all GBRF drivers are passed for working class 1 express passenger work, some are freight and ECS moves only. It just doesn't work without proper forward planning. It's not like BR days anymore, you can't just tie any ETH supplied loco on and use spare drivers from various strategically placed mainline depots anymore but thats privatisation and a franchised railway for you.

Whilst the 1759 Carlisle - Glasgow via G&S & GBK is the last through service. There is also the 1922 Carlisle - Dumfries which becomes a Dumfries - Glasgow service.


Current plans see the work taking place to remove the debris and stabilise the embankment in time for the sleepers to pass.

They could do single line working on the UP line crossing over at the bottom and top of the summit for Northbounds if condition of the banking allows, services would take a hit but thats better than nothing.

 

[Peter0124]

Whilst the 1759 Carlisle - Glasgow via G&S & GBK is the last through service. There is also the 1922 Carlisle - Dumfries which becomes a Dumfries - Glasgow service.

Why not just run it as a through service? Whats the layover like at Dumfries?

 

[Sid Edwards]

Thanks to Hamworthy Goods for that insight.

Probably little or no chance of any change coming there with the situation with Avanti and staff actually sorting out any differences, based on recent industrial unrest!

 

[hexagon789]

Whilst the 1759 Carlisle - Glasgow via G&S & GBK is the last through service. There is also the 1922 Carlisle - Dumfries which becomes a Dumfries - Glasgow service

Useful to know, but unfortunately won't help the person on the poster's 'via Barrow' train.

Whats the layover like at Dumfries?

Looks like 48 mins.