Begging getting more common on the railway?

[Thirteen]

Why would paying for something cheap with say a £20 be a scam? I have had to do that loads of times to get e.g. change for parking (not lately obviously)

When I worked in retail, it was drilled into us to make sure all transaction were final and shut the till as scammers do use high notes for that reason in order to confuse the worker.

 

[Howardh]

Why would paying for something cheap with say a £20 be a scam? I have had to do that loads of times to get e.g. change for parking (not lately obviously)

Yes, often in the past parked up with just a tenner note so dashed to the shop for something small for the change, and hoping to make it back before the warden.

 

[Sweetjesus]

I think they come in and out in waves. I have been a regular user of Lizzy line and sometimes I see beggars to come all at once within a week or two and then they disappear for a while only to come back again a few months later.

One tactic I noticed was that beggars tend to get on a westbound train at Stratford because it reduces the likelihood of other passengers reporting the beggar to BTP because the train goes into tunnel in the central section with poor signal.

 

[Gigabit]

I think they come in and out in waves. I have been a regular user of Lizzy line and sometimes I see beggars to come all at once within a week or two and then they disappear for a while only to come back again a few months later.

One tactic I noticed was that beggars tend to get on a westbound train at Stratford because it reduces the likelihood of other passengers reporting the beggar to BTP because the train goes into tunnel in the central section with poor signal.

BTP don't seem to do anything immediately anyway. I reported the tissue sellers on the District Line who would do it at the same time every day between the same stations and they just added it to a report. Now to be fair they haven't been around lately so it's possible they've been caught but they said they don't stop the trains unless there's a significant threat to life.

 

[Howardh]

On my travels I've noticed "Travel Safe Officers". begs a question as to what they can actually do - but do they try to move beggars on if they are on the railway premises??

 

[bearhugger]

Why would paying for something cheap with say a £20 be a scam? I have had to do that loads of times to get e.g. change for parking (not lately obviously)

In this particular instance I think the term is more "money laundering" than "scam". Scottish notes are apparently quite easy to forge, so once finished the scrotes then buy something really cheap like a Mars bar and then get the change in legit cash.

 

[90sWereBetter]

Last time I saw a tissue beggar was on C2C between Southend and West Ham last year, he wasn't getting any takers so he nonchalantly decided to change trains at West Ham, and I saw him fail miserable trying to dive onto a late Shoeburyness train which was just about to leave from the other side

I have seen a few beggars start sitting at the bottom of staircases at some Zone 1 tube stations, Bank and King's Cross come to mind. Not sure how long they last there before getting moved on by staff.

 

[Howardh]

Last time I saw a tissue beggar was on C2C between Southend and West Ham last year, he wasn't getting any takers so he nonchalantly decided to change trains at West Ham, and I saw him fail miserable trying to dive onto a late Shoeburyness train which was just about to leave from the other side

I have seen a few beggars start sitting at the bottom of staircases at some Zone 1 tube stations, Bank and King's Cross come to mind. Not sure how long they last there before getting moved on by staff.

The ones outside the shops sheltering by the trolleys annoy me, you have to pass them several times. At least near a station you usually only get the pleasure once.

 

[uglymonkey]

Big article in one of the papers today about groups of organised "beggars" in Bath I think. Pretty sure this level of organisation used on trains also. One beggar after his "shift" even drove of in a Mercedes!!

 

[jon0844]

BTP don't seem to do anything immediately anyway. I reported the tissue sellers on the District Line who would do it at the same time every day between the same stations and they just added it to a report. Now to be fair they haven't been around lately so it's possible they've been caught but they said they don't stop the trains unless there's a significant threat to life.

With the tissue beggars, in many cases they treat the beggars as victims - and they often want to try and find the ringleaders. I believe that a sizeable number of tissue beggars before Covid were identified as being from properties around the Wembley/Neasden area and the police were more interested in the people taking the money from the beggars and where it went/was spent on. In this case, it was Romanian gangs - a bit like Turkish barbers that are for laundering money for often Albanian gangs.

A lot of the beggars are followed by men who keep watch for police and also, presumably, to stop the beggars running or asking for help from the public.

The police should therefore be taking this seriously, but may not necessarily act in a visible fashion. Indeed, just moving them on might be the worst thing to do as it doesn't solve the problem.

 

[YorksLad12]

One tactic I noticed was that beggars tend to get on a westbound train at Stratford because it reduces the likelihood of other passengers reporting the beggar to BTP because the train goes into tunnel in the central section with poor signal.

They should be working for MI6 with that level of awareness.

 

[southern442]

This one is potentially crossing into scamming more than begging - I can't remember the exact ins and outs but one approached me at Kings Cross, started the conversation about the last train back as he was about to have an operation for a nasty accident, showed me his leg which had been done with SfX type make up and it looked really gruesome, like almost made me recoil. Then said that he was down to his last pound or something and needed money to get home. I might have actually believed this one if it a) hadn't happened to my dad before, and he told me to be wary of this scam, and b) if he hadn't pivoted to quickly from the last train back to asking for money. I told him that I would go and get a member of staff to support him and he quickly disappeared. It was quite intense and I looked online afterwards and found similar threads about this scam at St Pancras and other places, apparently quite common in Europe too.

I believe I have had an encounter with this exact gentleman, who asked me for help getting a train to Manchester or somewhere, I pointed him in the direction of victoria or euston, before realising he was actually asking for money, to which I responded by telling him I didn't have any (as a teacher this isn't exactly untrue!) In hindsight I probably should have offered to take him to the hospital (if he was genuine that would've been the best thing to do, if not then i would have realised sooner).

 

[BJames]

I believe I have had an encounter with this exact gentleman, who asked me for help getting a train to Manchester or somewhere, I pointed him in the direction of victoria or euston, before realising he was actually asking for money, to which I responded by telling him I didn't have any (as a teacher this isn't exactly untrue!) In hindsight I probably should have offered to take him to the hospital (if he was genuine that would've been the best thing to do, if not then i would have realised sooner).

Oh that was it!! Sounds like exactly the same person. I think it was Manchester he was 'trying to get back to', I've just remembered that I was trying to point him in the direction of Euston but he wanted to talk money. Then I tried to get him to come with me to a member of staff but he wasn't interested.

 

[island]

On my travels I've noticed "Travel Safe Officers". begs a question as to what they can actually do

Bugger all as far as I can tell

 

[ScottGallagher]

I remember you used to see signs and hear announcements about pickpockets operating on the underground , I don't travel on it much these days but are there any signs and auto announcements relating to begging either on station or train? If not perhaps there should be..

 

[jon0844]

I've seen posters and heard announcements before. I don't think the auto announcements are on a set timer and are more likely triggered as required by someone in a station control room.

 

[ExRes]

Are the Eastern Europeans still trying the old baby needs food con? always used to make me laugh when a new gang swapped over on their roster with the same baby, other than that the main beggars I came across were Traction Inspectors asking you to hand over your time off to drive extra trains because of understaffed depots

 

[LUYMun]

I remember you used to see signs and hear announcements about pickpockets operating on the underground, I don't travel on it much these days but are there any signs and auto announcements relating to begging either on station or train? If not perhaps there should be..

I believe the S7/S8 Stock trains have announcements playing at certain locations to remind passengers not to encourage begging.

 

[kacper]

I believe the S7/S8 Stock trains have announcements playing at certain locations to remind passengers not to encourage begging.

London Overground 378 trains have this announcement too

 

[devon_belle]

I've seen tissue beggars regularly on the western end of the Piccadilly and on Southern from Mitcham Jnc to Victoria. Never seen anyone buy one, surprised they keep going.

 

[John Luxton]

According to the Governments own statistics 21% of the UK population now live in poverty. That is probably why we are seeing a rise in begging on trains and elsewhere.

Gave up believing Government data during C19. One sees too many examples of conspicuous consumption to believe it is as high as that.

I must admit, either I have been lucky but I have not come across beggars on trains or stations.

Now the high street is a different matter. Plenty around in Liverpool with at least camped out near the entrance to Central Station.

The Isle of Man still enforces its vagrancy laws. Begging is a criminal offence.

Earlier this summer some Albanian beggars set themselves up in the main shopping street in Douglas.

They were arrested, jailed for 14 days and immediately expelled with a 5 year banning order.

Perhaps the UK should do the same, in particular with the non UK nationals?

 

[FGW_Lad]

Is this a very new thing, I've genuinely never encountered that all and I used to regularly travel to London pre-Covid, only been a handful of times since?

As to the original question, I've never encountered on train begging anywhere outside of London though there's definitely been a year on year increase in street begging over the past 10 years or so.

When in London I've taken to having earbuds in my ears at all times even when not listening to music so I can pretend not to hear beggars, chuggers or street sellers.

Used to happen on GWR Thames Valley services pre-TFL days so I guess the ticket barriers have stopped the majority of the beggars accessing stations.

 

[Parjon]

Tube beggars use the gangways on deep level all the time. I see it almost daily. One the other day on Circle line was being outwardly quite aggressive and trying to shame people ignoring him by shouting in their faces. It was quite extreme and unpleasant actually. I know the regular faces on West Anglia London Overground - one guy has his pockets absolutely jangling with coins, the other lady looks well dressed enough that when she approached me the first time I was caught completely off guard as I couldn't understand what she was trying to say to me.

This one is potentially crossing into scamming more than begging - I can't remember the exact ins and outs but one approached me at Kings Cross, started the conversation about the last train back as he was about to have an operation for a nasty accident, showed me his leg which had been done with SfX type make up and it looked really gruesome, like almost made me recoil. Then said that he was down to his last pound or something and needed money to get home. I might have actually believed this one if it a) hadn't happened to my dad before, and he told me to be wary of this scam, and b) if he hadn't pivoted to quickly from the last train back to asking for money. I told him that I would go and get a member of staff to support him and he quickly disappeared. It was quite intense and I looked online afterwards and found similar threads about this scam at St Pancras and other places, apparently quite common in Europe too.

If the guy's leg looked freshly mangled that would be a dead giveaway. Something that non-urgent and he'd be on the waiting list for years.

Certainly enough time for him to walk home to Manchester.

 

[gazzaa2]

It's been a while since I've seen the tissue beggars (almost all organised crime, possibly using trafficked individuals), but I have had many more individuals going through the train with a story about needing money for a hostel or similar.

They'll keep doing it because people will give them money. And not always coins/change. There's often someone that gives a note. As such, it seems like it must be quite profitable and will certainly encourage you to do it more.

The problem is the people who give beggars money, it just perpetuates it.

 

[Timmyd]

The musical beggars on the District and Circle were the worst but - fingers crossed - haven’t been seen for a good few years now. But homeless hard luck story types very common between Elephant and Herne Hill on TL. On the basis that none of the stations are gated and staff are rarer than hens teeth on these trains, its not surprising they keep at it.

 

[jon0844]

The problem is the people who give beggars money, it just perpetuates it.

I stupidly told someone who gave £20 to a tissue beggar that it funded organised crime and they were insistent that I was a horrible person who didn't care for their plight. Given the nasty looks from others, who I'm sure sided with her and not me, I now say nothing and just text BTP discreetly instead.

There are many people giving a lot of money so they're not going to stop. What's more, if these people can make a lot of money for the ringleaders, more people will be trafficked into doing it.

And one must wonder what the money is spent on.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

W. H. Davies - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Of course Wales , Newport specifically managed to produce the iconic "tramp" - you can also read George Orwell;s writings , but he never tried public transport.......

Different times and different policies and strategies.

 

[BJames]

Today:

Beggar on District Line, I could hear him quite literally shouting his sob story down the carriages after we left Fulham Broadway, but he reached my carriage (third from the front) just as we were leaving Parsons Green. The next minute and a half was quite something. A young man (I'd say around 20 years old) said that he had no change, and the beggar moved on down the carriage but then turned around and repeated the same thing, whilst this same gentleman was still in view. He said again that he had no change, and the beggar lost it. Launched into an absolute tirade against this poor young man, screaming that (imagine an obscenity between each of these words) he heard him the first time and that by repeating it he was just making the situation worse for him and everyone around him. The young man then said fair enough but the beggar seemed to think he said f**k off and then said that he would smash his face in and started squaring up to him, screaming obscenities for a good 45 seconds before then storming off down the train.

We then arrived at Putney Bridge where I alighted but as I did so I did ask the gentleman if he was ok, and said politely that as hard as it may seem, in the future the best thing to do is not say you have nothing but simply ignore them. I've never seen a beggar be this verbally aggressive, I truly thought he was seconds away from throwing a punch - I could hear the anger lacing his voice. I understand that he may well have been genuinely homeless and fallen on hard times but this was quite something to witness.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Sep 2023 ==

If the guy's leg looked freshly mangled that would be a dead giveaway. Something that non-urgent and he'd be on the waiting list for years.

It did. I don't think it's the most common scam so thought it would be worth mentioning on here in case anyone comes across in the future, although reasonably convincing it's not quite enough for most people to be taken in by I don't think.

Certainly enough time for him to walk home to Manchester.

 

[gazzaa2]

I stupidly told someone who gave £20 to a tissue beggar that it funded organised crime and they were insistent that I was a horrible person who didn't care for their plight. Given the nasty looks from others, who I'm sure sided with her and not me, I now say nothing and just text BTP discreetly instead.

There are many people giving a lot of money so they're not going to stop. What's more, if these people can make a lot of money for the ringleaders, more people will be trafficked into doing it.

And one must wonder what the money is spent on.

People are gullible. Look at the Captain Tom charity saga.

But if people want to help vulnerable people there are respectable, transparent charities out there. People giving them money are a huge part of the problem and it just creates a market for professional begging and therefore organised crime.

 

[jon0844]

I am always amazed (no idea why, I've seen it happen so often) that people give so much.