"Beholden" Hidden portals to other dimensions on the Piccadilly Line

[fotomoda]

Hello.... new to the forum and I am looking for some advice.
I am a professional photographer who spent the lockdown convinced that Charles Holden's Piccadilly line masterpieces contain hidden triggers to other dimensions.
(Ok not really, but I think it makes for a good fun photographic book, which I hope to publish next year)
Do any of you have any stories or urban myths you could share that might add weight to this theory?
You can see some promotional social media stuff I have done here :

and I've added some images so you get the feel of what the final book would look like.
I would love to add some real stories from ex/current underground workers and enthusiasts

thanks

Peter

 

[Roger1973]

May be stating the obvious, but Manor House and Turnpike Lane had portals to the dimension that was a tram service (the Metropolitan Electric Tramways company being largely owned by the Underground group prior to London Transport happening in 1933, so they were all for integration)

These tram shelters with stairs direct to / from booking hall level. The Turnpike Lane ones survived in to the early 70s.

Part of the passageways still apparently exist but are either sealed off or behind locked doors.

 

[kwrail]

Nice pictures. There are a number of disused stations on the Piccadilly line that may be worth including. Some still look like tube stations from the outside. In particular Down Street and Brompton Road

 

[edwin_m]

Nice pictures. There are a number of disused stations on the Piccadilly line that may be worth including. Some still look like tube stations from the outside. In particular Down Street and Brompton Road

Nothing to do with Holden though, these were Leslie Green stations.

The photos do suggest a sort of otherworldliness, and while this may not be the intent they remind me of light-hearted films such as "Ghostbusters" and "Men in Black".

 

[fotomoda]

Thanks for the replies. Yes in the book I mention that Churchill used Down Street station during the Blitz in an attempt to find a hidden portal! He was thwarted by the fact that, as Edwin stated, it was built by Green.
Another important aspect in the book are the cryptic number and letter plaques placed around various stations with no apparent logic. Here is a photo of one. Can anyone tell me what they really are?

 

[BayPaul]

The photos do suggest a sort of otherworldliness, and while this may not be the intent they remind me of light-hearted films such as "Ghostbusters" and "Men in Black".

I blame you entirely for me now having 'who you gonna call...Cockfosters" stuck in my head.

Great photos!

 

[fotomoda]

Haha!! Cockfosters, despite the name is one of the most important stations in the book.

 

[rebmcr]

Here is a photo of one. Can anyone tell me what they really are?

There are such signs that help the civil engineers keep track of over- and under-bridge structures — I believe this photo shows one of them.

 

[matt_world2004]

So Charles Holden is Ivo Shandor from ghostbusters.

 

[Mojo]

Another important aspect in the book are the cryptic number and letter plaques placed around various stations with no apparent logic. Here is a photo of one. Can anyone tell me what they really are?

They aren’t just at stations, and aren’t random, they are asset / bridge identification plates and many things that pass over or under the railway such as other railway / LU lines, canals, roads, rivers, footpaths, subways, etc. will be identified. There are some exceptions but by and large every bridge or underpass in open sections will have an ID plate under this system.

The logic is, the letter(s) at the start, between 1 and 4, identify the line/location, in this case D for District (meaning we know it’s somewhere between South Harrow / Heathrow / Ealing Bdy and Upminster), and then the numbers are just sequential. Lettered suffixes are either for multiple sections of what is in effect the same structure or area, for instance on a 4 track section a single road may actually be two bridges, or a viaduct with multiple arches, but it could also be an addition.

See this link for the letters: http://www.railwaycodes.org.uk/elrs/elr1.shtm

 

[edwin_m]

There are also little blue plates placed around stations that identify the level and location for emergency response purposes.

 

[Dave W]

I can't really help with the technical stuff, but fantastic images! Turnpike Lane, for all the faults of the area immediately outside, is a beautiful building.

These tram shelters with stairs direct to / from booking hall level. The Turnpike Lane ones survived in to the early 70s.

I wasn't familiar with this road layout before, but I'd always found the adjacent subway entrance (next to Ducketts Common) quite a strange design - it certainly didn't match the other subway surface exit, but it DOES match the ones here, so that makes a lot of sense.

 

[Mojo]

I can't really help with the technical stuff, but fantastic images! Turnpike Lane, for all the faults of the area immediately outside, is a beautiful building.




I wasn't familiar with this road layout before, but I'd always found the adjacent subway entrance (next to Ducketts Common) quite a strange design - it certainly didn't match the other subway surface exit, but it DOES match the ones here, so that makes a lot of sense.

I’ve always wondered why the sign at Turnpike Lane pointing to the bus station was so huge?

 

[joeneat]

Not another dimention but the woolwich tunnel does have a Timewarp.

 

[Taunton]

There was an extraordinary book published in 1979 called "Beneath the City Streets", by Peter Laurie, which was a strange combination of Underground facts and a science fiction novel. I was never quite sure if the author believed it all or not. Its premise was that every unmarked door, lift that was not accessible, bend in a tunnel alignment, etc, led to some secret government defence installation. Inevitably self-published. We have discussed it here before; sorry I lost mine, it was a real hoot.

Beneath the City Streets - Wikipedia

 

[Dave W]

I’ve always wondered why the sign at Turnpike Lane pointing to the bus station was so huge?

They wanted to make sure you knew how to get away from TPL as quickly as possible

Not another dimention but the woolwich tunnel does have a Timewarp.

WHERE is that like button!?

 

[randyrippley]

There was an extraordinary book published in 1979 called "Beneath the City Streets", by Peter Laurie, which was a strange combination of Underground facts and a science fiction novel. I was never quite sure if the author believed it all or not. Its premise was that every unmarked door, lift that was not accessible, bend in a tunnel alignment, etc, led to some secret government defence installation. Inevitably self-published. We have discussed it here before; sorry I lost mine, it was a real hoot.

Beneath the City Streets - Wikipedia

I've got a copy of a later edition somewhere, published by Granada, and while some of what he said was a bit off-the-wall, I think he got a lot more right than wrong. Needs to be read in conjunction with Duncan Campbell's "War Plan UK" which extrapolates and corrects much of Laurie's work

 

[fotomoda]

They aren’t just at stations, and aren’t random, they are asset / bridge identification plates and many things that pass over or under the railway such as other railway / LU lines, canals, roads, rivers, footpaths, subways, etc. will be identified. There are some exceptions but by and large every bridge or underpass in open sections will have an ID plate under this system.

The logic is, the letter(s) at the start, between 1 and 4, identify the line/location, in this case D for District (meaning we know it’s somewhere between South Harrow / Heathrow / Ealing Bdy and Upminster), and then the numbers are just sequential. Lettered suffixes are either for multiple sections of what is in effect the same structure or area, for instance on a 4 track section a single road may actually be two bridges, or a viaduct with multiple arches, but it could also be an addition.

See this link for the letters: http://www.railwaycodes.org.uk/elrs/elr1.shtm

Very informative, thank you

I’ve always wondered why the sign at Turnpike Lane pointing to the bus station was so huge?

I can't really help with the technical stuff, but fantastic images! Turnpike Lane, for all the faults of the area immediately outside, is a beautiful building.




I wasn't familiar with this road layout before, but I'd always found the adjacent subway entrance (next to Ducketts Common) quite a strange design - it certainly didn't match the other subway surface exit, but it DOES match the ones here, so that makes a lot of sense.

Turnpike Lane features in the book.
Charles Holden gave each station an alternative function (in my book
Turnpike lane is a "Psionic wave generating hub"

 

[AlbertBeale]

I've got a copy of a later edition somewhere, published by Granada, and while some of what he said was a bit off-the-wall, I think he got a lot more right than wrong. Needs to be read in conjunction with Duncan Campbell's "War Plan UK" which extrapolates and corrects much of Laurie's work

Absolutely - Beneath the City Streets wasn't self-published (it was a "proper" paperback book), and it wasn't science fiction. It was based on real research, and some guesswork/deductions. (Some of the latter were in fact inaccurate; but as a whole it was one of the more informative public sources on that subject available at the time.) Yes, Duncan Campbell was involved in subsequent books that overlapped with the stuff in Peter Laurie's (and, in the process, corrected and updated some of it); besides War Plan UK, there was Researching State Structures, which came out of a conference on that topic (which I was involved in). There's much much more on such things in articles Duncan has written in loads of magazines over the years - mostly based on his own informed and meticulous research. (I remember one night when he accessed some of the cable tunnels under London, as part of his research, and - if I remember correctly - took a bike down so as to cover more ground during the night.)

 

[1018509]

If you go to Rayners Lane Station and stand on the westbound platform, beyond the station canopy, and look back towards the station exit but above the canopy roofline. You can then see the tall block which is the booking hall and the windows of the platform cross passage; above the cross passage windows, right of the booking hall are further windows which clearly show a room but this room is not accessible from the booking hall. This room appears to be above the conveniences, if they are still there. I was told once that this room is accessible through a trapdoor in the ceiling of the ladies loo but I never checked this out although, thinking back now, I wish I had.

What's the purpose of this room or is it just cosmetic construction to retain the symmetry of the building?

 

[Taunton]

Beneath the City Streets wasn't self-published (it was a "proper" paperback book),

I'm wondering then if I've got the right book. Available mid-1980s, got it from the old David & Charles bookshop in Chiltern Street, Marylebone, so perceived as a railway book. It concentrated wholly on the Underground network, which the above doesn't seem to, and was full of supposition about where every obscure passage lay, unexplained buttons on goods lifts, secret links into government buildings, and such like. It was self-published, and typescript, with little b/w drawings. I did think it was by Peter Laurie - did he or anyone else ever do anything like this?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm afraid Neil Gaiman and Lenny Henry pretty much beat the OP to it.
Neverwhere.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I'm wondering then if I've got the right book. Available mid-1980s, got it from the old David & Charles bookshop in Chiltern Street, Marylebone, so perceived as a railway book. It concentrated wholly on the Underground network, which the above doesn't seem to, and was full of supposition about where every obscure passage lay, unexplained buttons on goods lifts, secret links into government buildings, and such like. It was self-published, and typescript, with little b/w drawings. I did think it was by Peter Laurie - did he or anyone else ever do anything like this?

No, the book you describe isn't Beneath the City Streets - the latter was published in the '70s, and it didn't concentrate on the Underground. (Though tunnels under London were in the book, and I think it did speculate on the use of some - then newer - tube tunnels, eg the Victoria Line, as useful conduits for newer government cables and so on. I'm not sure of the exact details because I let someone borrow my copy years/decades ago and never got it back!)

 

[Taunton]

Hmmm ... I think then it maybe QUOTED, extensively, Beneath the City Streets. Like yourself, my copy disappeared long ago.

For example, it drew a surely exaggerated eastern sweep of the Jubilee Line between Baker Street and Bond Street, on the grounds that there was some secret government underground establishment along what maps showed as the alignment.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Hmmm ... I think then it maybe QUOTED, extensively, Beneath the City Streets. Like yourself, my copy disappeared long ago.

For example, it drew a surely exaggerated eastern sweep of the Jubilee Line between Baker Street and Bond Street, on the grounds that there was some secret government underground establishment along what maps showed as the alignment.

But the Jubilee does go on a big loop to the east between Baker Street and Bond Street - it doesn't run anything like directly. Remember that the Bakerloo was built at a time when getting powers to run under buildings was difficult, so early lines ran under roads and followed the line of the roads. Hence the Bakerloo running north from Oxford Circus runs under Portland Place (zig-zag and all), reaching Regents Park (and the station of the same name) from the south, then sweeping round to approach Baker St station from something like the ENE. (One branch then does another wiggle to loop round south-west from [its] Edgware Rd station to get to Paddington main line before looping back up north again; the other branch [the one that was subsumed into the Jubilee] looped back north straight away from Baker Street. But none of this routing "north" [west] of Baker Street is directly relevant or your point.)

So when the Jubilee took over a branch of the Bakerloo, and forged its own way into central London, it started off heading ENE from Baker Street, being the direction of the line/platforms it was branching off from. Also, since newer standards precluded such tight turns anyway, the Jubilee also had to go on a big leisurely sweep under the southern bit of Regents Park on a similar alignment to the Bakerloo (but not stopping at R Pk station of course, though in terms of where it is underground it almost could do). The J Line continues turning towards the SW before bending back again to get to Bond St more or less from the north.

So, whether or not speculation about new tube tunnels being useful to link into government underground facilities is true (and it doesn't seem to me to be completely impossible, given the paranoia around in some circles relating to both the Cold War and potential "insurrection"), it is the case that the Jubilee goes by an unlikely-looking (if you don't know the history) route between Baker St and Bond St stations.

 

[edwin_m]

Surely if "they" wanted to conceal a secret facility under Regents Park, they would just make the maps show the Jubilee following the "obvious" route? If it doesn't, then short of taking an inertial navigation system with them nobody's going to know.

 

[davews]

It also has to avoid the tunnel of the hidden Tyburn river which more or less runs direct between Baker St and Bond St.

 

[Mojo]

If you go to Rayners Lane Station and stand on the westbound platform, beyond the station canopy, and look back towards the station exit but above the canopy roofline. You can then see the tall block which is the booking hall and the windows of the platform cross passage; above the cross passage windows, right of the booking hall are further windows which clearly show a room but this room is not accessible from the booking hall. This room appears to be above the conveniences, if they are still there. I was told once that this room is accessible through a trapdoor in the ceiling of the ladies loo but I never checked this out although, thinking back now, I wish I had.

What's the purpose of this room or is it just cosmetic construction to retain the symmetry of the building?

Can you describe better what you mean or even better tag the area on a picture (there’s one here if it helps - https://www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/3684538123) as I’m struggling to understand what you mean by “cross passage” as this is normally the area between two platforms at under ground stations. Are you talking about the area to the right of the footbridge / ticket hall?

 

[AlbertBeale]

Surely if "they" wanted to conceal a secret facility under Regents Park, they would just make the maps show the Jubilee following the "obvious" route? If it doesn't, then short of taking an inertial navigation system with them nobody's going to know.

No - some of the twists and turns of the tunnels are incredibly obvious (especially on the older lines where the curves are sharper ... eg the Bakerloo zig-zagging along under Portland Place). I don't think any regular user of the tubes around Baker Street, providing they have at least a bit of a sense of direction, could fail to notice how some of the trains loop around in the "wrong" direction at various points. Similarly, given the Met, Circle, etc, run under the main road there, if you go down from them to the deep tubes, it's pretty obvious what angle you've turned through and which way the platforms you've got to are aligned. It's almost an automatic feeling; you don't even have to think about it, I find.

 

[edwin_m]

No - some of the twists and turns of the tunnels are incredibly obvious (especially on the older lines where the curves are sharper ... eg the Bakerloo zig-zagging along under Portland Place). I don't think any regular user of the tubes around Baker Street, providing they have at least a bit of a sense of direction, could fail to notice how some of the trains loop around in the "wrong" direction at various points. Similarly, given the Met, Circle, etc, run under the main road there, if you go down from them to the deep tubes, it's pretty obvious what angle you've turned through and which way the platforms you've got to are aligned. It's almost an automatic feeling; you don't even have to think about it, I find.

You must be better at this than I am. Most of the time I have an excellent mental compass, but it stops working the moment I step into a deep tube station.