being prosecuted or can pay fine?

[Svl22]

Hi,

I’ve been a bit of an idiot and feeling so cross with myself! I hope someone can advise me.

I got the train from Cambridge to London a couple of months ago. Had a standard class ticket but sat in first class (train was empty and I wanted to use the table there to do some work). Just as the train was pulling into Kings Cross the ticket inspector came along. Said he would have to fine me. I argued with him as I felt it was unreasonable given the train was totally empty, obviously he was technically correct though that I had not paid to be in first class and thus was liable for a fine.

When I argued he said that if I didn’t want to pay it today I had to give him my contact details and they would write to me about it. I have him my contact details. I assumed I would get a letter asking me to pay a fine, I was thinking I would contest it but obviously as soon as I calmed down I realised I would just have to pay it. But today got the letter and it’s not requesting payment of a fine, it’s saying they are taking me to magistrates court. I’ve written back saying I was expecting to pay a fine based on what their operative said, and am willing to do so. Is there a chance they will accept me paying the fine or will I end up in court? I’m very keen to avoid court!

 

[Brissle Girl]

So, firstly, if you're to have any hope of rescuing the situation then you need to change your attitude and mindset. The inspector wasn't "technically correct" - he was correct. You had no right to be in first, were caught, and then argued the toss with the inspector. (And indeed were going to continue to dispute the fine when they wrote to you.)

So you were offered the easy way out, with a penalty fare (not a fine) and refused it, thus creating a lot more work and cost for the train company. Therefore it is hardly a surprise that they are now looking to take you to court. You've already replied, which isn't helpful in the sense that you should probably have waited if you were intending to ask for advice here, and it sounds as though the letter may not have been written as contritely as it needs to be if you are to stand any chance of avoiding court.

All you can do is wait now until you get a response. After that you can try again with a letter that makes it clear than you now understand that what you did was wrong, you won't do it again, and ask whether they would be willing to offer an out of court settlement, reflecting the costs that they will have incurred as a result of your behaviour. (Yes, you should put something to that effect, to emphasise that you now understand you were in the wrong.)

 

[Bertie the bus]

TOCs do sometimes settle out of court but much will depend on what you said in your reply. If it is anything like what you have posted on here your chances are probably slim. It shows a real sense of entitlement to claim you should be able to sit in 1st Class because the train is empty and is the equivalent to the argument – why should I pay my fare when the train would run anyway?

 

[najaB]

I assumed I would get a letter asking me to pay a fine, I was thinking I would contest it but obviously as soon as I calmed down I realised I would just have to pay it. But today got the letter and it’s not requesting payment of a fine, it’s saying they are taking me to magistrates court.

To be clear, did you receive a summons (a letter saying that you have to attend court on a specific date) or a letter saying that they are considering taking you to court?

 

[some bloke]

All you can do is wait now until you get a response. After that you can try again with a letter

Could @Svl22 usefully write before then (along the lines you suggest), saying they have now had advice and understand the situation better?

 

[Brissle Girl]

Could @Svl22 usefully write before then (along the lines you suggest), saying they have now had advice and understand the situation better?

They could possibly, but I think the value of such a letter is diminished, coming hard on the heels of one that may not have had the right tone. Specifically, if you say you've taken advice then it could come across as "I've been told to say this", which might lead the recipient to think that the change of tone is insincere.

 

[Svl22]

Thanks for replies. I’ve not received a summons to court, just a letter saying they are planning to take me to court and giving me an opportunity to tell them ‘what happened from my point of view’. My reply was very short and just said that I was told a fine would be sent by post and was willing to pay that. Would they really bother to go to court instead of just taking my money?

 

[some bloke]

Thanks for replies. I’ve not received a summons to court, just a letter saying they are planning to take me to court and giving me an opportunity to tell them ‘what happened from my point of view’. My reply was very short and just said that I was told a fine would be sent by post and was willing to pay that. Would they really bother to go to court instead of just taking my money?

A penalty fare is what someone may be asked to pay at the time.

A settlement is meant to include the costs of the investigation and admin, after you refused the penalty fare.

They might prosecute someone not to get money as the main reason, but to deter.

 

[najaB]

Would they really bother to go to court instead of just taking my money?

They are more likely to settle if they believe that you have learned from your mistake. If they have reason to believe that you're liable to do it again then they're more likely to continue with a prosecution.