Being told not to touch out

[Mikey C]

Arriving at Oval station today for the cricket, we were told we didn't have to touch out (to speed passenger flows) as the system would automatically add this in when we touched back in again in the evening.

I've never heard of this before, and will be interested to see my Oyster account when it processes. Would it still work if I went to a different station like Vauxhall instead?

 

[DavyCrocket]

If you touch in in the local area later in the day or if Oval is your regular station then auto-complete will complete the journey. The issues arise when you don’t need to make a journey or if told not to touch in at the start of your next journey.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Usually when I attend major concerts where the gatelines are open (e.g. Wembley stations, North Greenwich, Arsenal, etc.), a staff member at the gateline would be constantly repeating that paper ticket holders should walk right through, but Oyster/contactless users should touch-out (or touch-in after the event) as usual.

 

[James H]

Same happened at Tower Hill on the day of the London Marathon - staff told passengers to just walk through

 

[Mcr Warrior]

So, what are the potential consequences for Oyster card holders of what they are being asked to do (or, more specifically, not do) at these big events?

 

[transportphoto]

So, what are the potential consequences for Oyster card holders of what they are being asked to do (or, more specifically, not do) at these big events?

Worst case scenario is probably a quick call to the Oyster helpline who will solve any hiccups within minutes.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Worst case scenario is probably a quick call to the Oyster helpline who will solve any hiccups within minutes.

To resolve what issue?

 

[Taunton]

Worst case scenario is probably a quick call to the Oyster helpline who will solve any hiccups within minutes.

Visitors to London will not have a clue what you are talking about.

 

[Mikey C]

It worked!

In the morning I was charged the maximum £6.40, but when I touched in at Oval later on in the afternoon the journey auto-completed and the extra £3.40 was credited back to me, leaving me with the correct £3.00 cost.

To resolve what issue?

In London you have to touch in and touch out to use an Oyster or contactless card on the tube or trains. If you don't touch out you get charged the maximum fare, which above would have been £6.40 rather than the correct £3.00.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

In London you have to touch in and touch out to use an Oyster or contactless card on the tube or trains. If you don't touch out you get charged the maximum fare, which above would have been £6.40 rather than the correct £3.00.

So, the cricket goers to the International Test Match at the Oval are being asked to do something which *could* possibly result in them being charged maximum fares?

 

[pdeaves]

To resolve what issue?

Presumably an 'unresolved journey' commanding a maximum fare?

 

[Daniel]

A system of "auto complete" occurs at major events where the barriers are left open and passengers are not expected to swipe their Oyster cards. Passengers who do not subsequently swipe their Oyster cards within three days at the event station face a charge for a maximum complete journey often greater than the journey made. Given that TfL is aware of this problem, what steps are being taken to:
a) Inform passengers that they have been overcharged and to set out how to seek a refund?
b) To ensure that this "drawback" in the Oyster system is eradicated?

Written answer received on 24 June 2011:

When a major event takes place in London, London Underground staff are in fact generally instructed to keep gate lines closed. There may be periods when the gate line at a particular station, say Westminster, has to be opened for safety reasons due to the sheer volume of passengers. However, passengers will normally still be able to touch in or out and are reminded to do so.

Auto-completion is used to assist customers who have not touched out when gates have had to be opened. When such customers next touch in, at Westminster or an adjoining station, auto-completion overrides the maximum fare that would otherwise apply to their previous journey.

Auto-completion was applied successfully at Zone 1 stations on the date of the royal wedding, with over 10,000 earlier journeys made complete when the customers subsequently touched in.

Auto-completion is a setting that is applied to gates and is not a 'fare' or 'charge'. TfL does not raise any revenue from the adoption of this setting.

In addition to 'auto complete' any customers who do not touch in or out can obtain a refund from a ticket office or the helpline.

I have asked Transport for London to meet with you, if you wish to be further briefed to clarify the issue.

Overcharging on Oyster (1)

www.london.gov.uk

 

[W-on-Sea]

I've been in this situation, exiting Stratford to attend a concert at the London Arena, and told not to touch out.

No problem, the uncompleted journey was resolved automatically, even though I no longer live in London and as such use my Oyster infrequently; thus there would have been no obvious hint that I was travelling to Stratford, although I MAY have touched in there on a return journey later that evening.

 

[Falcon1200]

To resolve what issue?

What would happen of someone touched in at origin but as instructed did not touch out at destination, but for whatever reason travelled home by a different means? TfL would surely have no idea what journey the passenger had actually made.

 

[MikeWh]

What would happen of someone touched in at origin but as instructed did not touch out at destination, but for whatever reason travelled home by a different means? TfL would surely have no idea what journey the passenger had actually made.

In that case you would need to call the helpdesk to resolve the incomplete journey.

 

[greyman42]

Following a football match at Fulham, as away supporters we were held at the bottom of the stairs at Putney Bridge station until a train arrived and then herded onto it. Using the Oyster reader was impossible.

 

[DelW]

In that case you would need to call the helpdesk to resolve the incomplete journey.

Would that also be the case if using a contactless debit card rather than Oyster? If so, what info would the helpline operator need - time, location and card number?

 

[jon81uk]

Would that also be the case if using a contactless debit card rather than Oyster? If so, what info would the helpline operator need - time, location and card number?

Assuming the card is registered and can be seen on the TfL website, you can usually just get an incomplete journey refund on the site. But if calling they might only need your details as can then see the registered cards and the journey history.

 

[DelW]

Assuming the card is registered and can be seen on the TfL website, you can usually just get an incomplete journey refund on the site. But if calling they might only need your details as can then see the registered cards and the journey history.

I normally use Oyster (with Railcard discount) or an outboundary travelcard, but the other evening I had to use an (unregistered) debit card when a closed but unstaffed gateline wouldn't accept my paper travelcard. I touched out again with no issues but I did wonder how I'd get on if there was a problem. Also whether I'd be able to reclaim the extra fare which shouldn't have been needed, but it's probably not worth the hassle anyway.

 

[jon81uk]

I normally use Oyster (with Railcard discount) or an outboundary travelcard, but the other evening I had to use an (unregistered) debit card when a closed but unstaffed gateline wouldn't accept my paper travelcard. I touched out again with no issues but I did wonder how I'd get on if there was a problem. Also whether I'd be able to reclaim the extra fare which shouldn't have been needed, but it's probably not worth the hassle anyway.

If there is a problem you use the emergency button to open the gates.

To get the fare completely refunded you'll need to call up TfL. On the website you can only specify where the journey actually ended and get the difference between what was charged (either maximum fare or a guess at where you finished) and what should have been charged.

 

[DelW]

If there is a problem you use the emergency button to open the gates.

To get the fare completely refunded you'll need to call up TfL. On the website you can only specify where the journey actually ended and get the difference between what was charged (either maximum fare or a guess at where you finished) and what should have been charged.

Thanks for the info, but I'm not sure that it's worth the trouble. The journey I used the debit card for was completed (tap in and tap out), so I should only have been charged for an off-peak single.

It was an entry gateline that didn't accept my travelcard ticket, and with an already tight connection time onto my main-line train home I didn't have time to try and find a member of staff, if indeed there was one anywhere around.

 

[Hadders]

Gate lines should not be left unmanned. You really should raise a complaint about this.

 

[DelW]

Gate lines should not be left unmanned. You really should raise a complaint about this.

I did wonder about that. It was West Kensington District Line station at about 21:10 on Tuesday. I only waited a minute or two since as mentioned I was tight for my main line connection, but there were certainly no staff visible.

What would the procedure be, via somewhere on the TfL website?

 

[321over360]

Gate lines should not be left unmanned. You really should raise a complaint about this.

Definitely, ATG's under H&S legislation are required to be kept open if there is no staff around.

What would the procedure be, via somewhere on the TfL website?

Would TFL even do anything? Unmanned closed ATGs is common on the tube as been through Newbury Park station plenty of times where the barriers are closed but no one in the little booth designed to oversee the barriers. I can see an argument that they are being observed on camera, however unless the room with the screen is in direct proximity to the ATG's this is not correct procedure incase of entrapment which could cause injury

 

[ATrainSpotter]

If there is a problem you use the emergency button to open the gates.

To get the fare completely refunded you'll need to call up TfL. On the website you can only specify where the journey actually ended and get the difference between what was charged (either maximum fare or a guess at where you finished) and what should have been charged.

What emergency button?

 

[jon81uk]

What emergency button?

To the side of the ticket barriers there is the control panel in a cabinet, as part of that panel there will be a big red button which will open the ticket gates.

Although I've since read that the OP was outside the barrier so it isn't really relevant in that case.

 

[Taunton]

The fact is, if you are told not to touch out due to crowding, fire alarms, an incident down on the platform, etc, you only get auto completed if you go back in at the same station later. Otherwise get hit for a maximum fare which, only for fare geeks, you may even guess exists. Obviously a key issue at main line termini Underground stations for visitors leaving London.

Even more so at freestanding in/out readers like the DLR has, where you can end up charged for two incomplete journeys