Best passenger high speed train in UK?

[notadriver]

The Stadler flirts are good at what they do, 2 hour run but the differential between a full high speed intercity train is somewhat blurred anyway as shown in this debate. 100mph commuter trains to 110 mph class 90 stock to 125mph class 8xx is all about gearing anyway, you could gear The only true high speed trains are the Eurostars or the javelins in the uk

I would say in britain high speed trains are those passed for 125 mph running. They will also have doors and the end of the coaches separated from passengers by an internal sliding door.

 

[Energy]

I would say in britain high speed trains are those passed for 125 mph running. They will also have doors and the end of the coaches separated from passengers by an internal sliding door.

What does door location have to do with "high speed"? The Stadler Girunos in Switzerland are high speed with doors at the centre. The only properly high speed train in the UK is the class 374 (and previously 373), the only difference between regional/commuter stock and high speed stock here seems to be 15mph and a pointy nose.

 

[cnjb8]

What does door location have to do with "high speed"? The Stadler Girunos in Switzerland are high speed with doors at the centre. The only properly high speed train in the UK is the class 374 (and previously 373), the only difference between regional/commuter stock and high speed stock here seems to be 15mph and a pointy nose.

Yes that’s true, but judging on what the max speed is on most lines, 125mph should be the criteria for this country

 

[SolomonSouth]

Yes that’s true, but judging on what the max speed is on most lines, 125mph should be the criteria for this country

Yes. For other countries it may vary

 

[Mikey C]

The Stadler flirts are good at what they do, 2 hour run but the differential between a full high speed intercity train is somewhat blurred anyway as shown in this debate. 100mph commuter trains to 110 mph class 90 stock to 125mph class 8xx is all about gearing anyway, you could gear The only true high speed trains are the Eurostars or the javelins in the uk

And the same Mk 3 coach of a 125mph HST can also be found in 100/110mph loco hauled configurations

 

[urpert]

Ive never been on one but im surprised no ones mentioned the Hitachi 395 which I believe is capable 125 or is it 140mph.
As for myself in terms of ride and ambiance I think the ic125 is the standard to beat particularly the ones fitted with plug doors.
Perhaps the Azuma particularly the ride will improve in time as the mk4s who rode appallingly when new did.
K

Another vote for the 395 here.

 

[notadriver]

Another vote for the 395 here.

The 395 is definitely not an intercity train. Doors at 1/3 and 2/3 down the coaches, 2+2 seating throughout so no first class and no catering facilities of any kind. Does it have wifi ?

 

[Jozhua]

I'm going to get hung for saying this, but the 222 isn't a bad train. The seats are comfy (if a bit worn at this point). They are also pretty fast and reliable enough (definitely when compared to HSTs!). Primarily fall down on capacity and bathrooms.

In terms of the quality, speed, etc of the train itself, the 80X series is very good. Bathrooms are majorly better than a lot of other units. However, simple things such as seats and to an extent, lighting, are where they fall short.

In terms of my experience, the HSTs are pretty good, although I actually don't like the seats on many as the legroom is poor on XC and headrests were too low on EMR. On XC though, everything is outweighed by the fact they are vastly more spacious than the Voyagers, therefore providing a much more comfortable journey. Still cannot believe there is no solid plan for increasing capacity on XC... (HS2 will help north of Brum, but that's a while off and assumes the gov doesn't cancel it)

397's are actually really good. I've ridden them on one proper trip and was just generally impressed. Obviously some seat points lost, but that could be resolved with other units. Absolutely should order more for regions with wires.

 

[SolomonSouth]

Does it have wifi ?

Yes.

 

[dk1]

I'm going to get hung for saying this, but the 222 isn't a bad train. The seats are comfy (if a bit worn at this point). They are also pretty fast and reliable enough (definitely when compared to HSTs!). Primarily fall down on capacity and bathrooms.

In terms of the quality, speed, etc of the train itself, the 80X series is very good. Bathrooms are majorly better than a lot of other units. However, simple things such as seats and to an extent, lighting, are where they fall short.

Got to agree with your initial comment. I’m always happy to board a 222 ‘Meridian’ unit. Just wondering if you are from America or Canada though. I’ve never heard train toilets referred to as bathrooms before?

 

[Mikey C]

The 395 is definitely not an intercity train. Doors at 1/3 and 2/3 down the coaches, 2+2 seating throughout so no first class and no catering facilities of any kind. Does it have wifi ?

The original question was for the best "high speed train" though, not inter city. For the routes the 395s take, 1st class and catering aren't needed. Yes they do have wifi

They're a clever design as they have to combine the HS1 high speed blast, with regular stops on the classic Kent network where 1/3 2/3 doors are essential.

 

[Jozhua]

Got to agree with your initial comment. I’m always happy to board a 222 ‘Meridian’ unit. Just wondering if you are from America or Canada though. I’ve never heard train toilets referred to as bathrooms before?

Haha, I'm British lol

But yeah 222's are honestly pretty solid, just need a refurb and to set on fire slightly less

 

[dk1]

Haha, I'm British lol

But yeah 222's are honestly pretty solid, just need a refurb and to set on fire slightly less

Set on fire?? They would be almost perfect on the Plymouth-Edinburgh route (totally perfect if Project Thor had gone ahead) if in 5-7 car formations.

 

[Purple Orange]

Eurostar - class 374. I actually enjoy being on that train, which gives me hope that HS2 trains will be of similar quality.

I’ll also echo others that the Javelin is a great train too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Eurostar - class 374. I actually enjoy being on that train, which gives me hope that HS2 trains will be of similar quality.

I’ll also echo others that the Javelin is a great train too.

Interesting you say that, i think the 374 interior is pretty rubbish. The ICE3 is basically the same train with a properly nice interior. The tables are particularly bad as they extend downwards stealing legroom.

 

[Purple Orange]

Interesting you say that, i think the 374 interior is pretty rubbish. The ICE3 is basically the same train with a properly nice interior. The tables are particularly bad as they extend downwards stealing legroom.

I can only compare to other British high speed trains and if we are talking about trains that run at a minimum of 125 mph, I can’t think of another UK train that betters the 374/e320. It’s ‘competitors’ are the 373/e300, Pendolino, IET (and all it’s variations), IC225, HST, Nova 2, Voyager, Meridian and Javelin. Of those 7 trains, I can’t think of one that betters the 374/e320.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can only compare to other British high speed trains and if we are talking about trains that run at a minimum of 125 mph, I can’t think of another UK train that betters the 374/e320. It’s ‘competitors’ are the 373/e300, Pendolino, IET (and all it’s variations), IC225, HST, Nova 2, Voyager, Meridian and Javelin. Of those 7 trains, I can’t think of one that betters the 374/e320.

To be honest I would rank all of those above it simply because of that table issue making table seats unusable for me. It's an incredibly poor piece of design.

The colour scheme and lighting is also stark compared with all of those. The 397 (which is also a 125mph unit) in particular has a very classy interior scheme indeed.

 

[bramling]

A German friend, also a driver asked me what i thought the best high speed train we have is in my view? I have to say i like the Azuma best. Fast, good looking, good cabins and a real leap forward from the HSTs i used to drive.
You?

From a travelling experience, I’d say IC225, 390 or 222, with all three being reasonably well suited to their application. The 390s I like providing one gets a seat with a decent window view. 222s are absolutely fine but a bit careworn inside now. Quite happy with the IC225 in the post-Mallard state.

I’m not keen on the IETs, nor the FLIRTS. The latter are okay for rural journeys, but I don’t think they really cut it for long distance.

Voyagers are sound as a concept (from the passenger point of view - I realise operationally they are an expensive train to operate), but they suffer from a number of niggles
(1) not long enough
(2) they feel very much like the first of a generation - the later MML versions feel like a much more mature product. The earlier Voyagers would benefit from being heavily refurbished to be more like the 222s.
(3) smelly toilets

 

[Purple Orange]

To be honest I would rank all of those above it simply because of that table issue making table seats unusable for me. It's an incredibly poor piece of design.

The colour scheme and lighting is also stark compared with all of those. The 397 (which is also a 125mph unit) in particular has a very classy interior scheme indeed.

Surely if a train quality comes down to table design (or that age old seat comfort debate) then either the question is wrong or people are looking at it completely differently. That said, something needs to distinguish a train quality!

If I was to rank interior (and to be fair, that is what the passenger experiences), I’d still have the 374/e320 ahead of the rest. It would be:

1. 374/e320
2. Javelin
3. IET (some people hate it, but I see light, clean crisp lines, which pleases my eye)
4. Pendolino
5. IC 225
6. Meridian
7. HST (even with new seats & tables, the 1970s BR shone through the rest of the fixtures and fittings)
8. Voyager (the small capacity ruins it despite looking very similar to a pendolino)

I’ve not been on a 373/e300, so I can’t comment upon it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely if a train quality comes down to table design (or that age old seat comfort debate) then either the question is wrong or people are looking at it completely differently. That said, something needs to distinguish a train quality!

I suppose there are really 3 factors:

1. Passenger environment
2. Technical merit (possibly split into innovation vs. reliability)
3. What it's like to drive (and otherwise work on)

Obviously I've not experienced (3) on any high speed train (though I have driven a Class 101 DMU). But the three are likely to give completely different answers.

Passenger environment is going to be mostly based on seats etc, colour scheme and lighting anyway, though with a bit of window size/alignment, ride, noise etc. Indeed, it even varies between classes - I think 1st on the 390 is excellent but Standard pretty mediocre.

IETs even vary. I dislike the dull grey and 1990s-bus-handrail lime green of the GWR units, but the LNER red looks lovely and warm, and the TPE dark blue looks classy and understated. And that's in trains which are (give or take the presence or absence of a buffet) identical in all but colour scheme.

 

[AverageTD]

Surely if a train quality comes down to table design (or that age old seat comfort debate) then either the question is wrong or people are looking at it completely differently. That said, something needs to distinguish a train quality!

If I was to rank interior (and to be fair, that is what the passenger experiences), I’d still have the 374/e320 ahead of the rest. It would be:

1. 374/e320
2. Javelin
3. IET (some people hate it, but I see light, clean crisp lines, which pleases my eye)
4. Pendolino
5. IC 225
6. Meridian
7. HST (even with new seats & tables, the 1970s BR shone through the rest of the fixtures and fittings)
8. Voyager (the small capacity ruins it despite looking very similar to a pendolino)

I’ve not been on a 373/e300, so I can’t comment upon it.

I quite like this list. Only things I'd change would put the 373 in second, put the voyager just below the Meridian and drop the Pendo to joint last with the HST.

 

[Purple Orange]

I suppose there are really 3 factors:

1. Passenger environment
2. Technical merit (possibly split into innovation vs. reliability)
3. What it's like to drive (and otherwise work on)

Obviously I've not experienced (3) on any high speed train (though I have driven a Class 101 DMU). But the three are likely to give completely different answers.

Passenger environment is going to be mostly based on seats etc, colour scheme and lighting anyway, though with a bit of window size/alignment, ride, noise etc. Indeed, it even varies between classes - I think 1st on the 390 is excellent but Standard pretty mediocre.

IETs even vary. I dislike the dull grey and 1990s-bus-handrail lime green of the GWR units, but the LNER red looks lovely and warm, and the TPE dark blue looks classy and understated. And that's in trains which are (give or take the presence or absence of a buffet) identical in all but colour scheme.

I’ve not experienced a GWR IET, but assuming the interior is rubbish I wouldn’t want to denigrate what is an otherwise very good train elsewhere in the country.

I quite like this list. Only things I'd change would put the 373 in second, put the voyager just below the Meridian and drop the Pendo to joint last with the HST.

I do wonder, now that XC have doubled up although at half frequency, whether my view of voyagers would change. Might put them on par with a pendolino.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do wonder, now that XC have doubled up although at half frequency, whether my view of voyagers would change. Might put them on par with a pendolino.

The interior of both is (deliberately) very similar, even though they are not from the same manufacturer.

 

[HST274]

Personally I would say that the class 8xx is definitely up there. I would say that the only thing pulling them down is the seats which are waaaay to hard. Otherwise I have little complaint of ride quality etc. And i like green.

The pendolino with a good view is also good. The seats are nice, the train fast and electric and I like the weird feeling you get with the tilting, and ordering at seat service when you are in coach c is good fun.

Otherwise I think eurostar is the only proper "high speed" and I like HSTs but wouldn't class them as such in the high speed category anymore though they are still my favourite.

 

[MattRat]

I did a poll on this a while back. If I remember right, it was class 43 HST 1st, class 91 Intercity 225 2nd, and Class 390 Pendolino 3rd.

 

[Nova1]

I did a poll on this a while back. If I remember right, it was class 43 HST 1st, class 91 Intercity 225 2nd, and Class 390 Pendolino 3rd.

Makes you wonder what you'd get if you surveyed the general public/regular travelers rather than railway nerds like you've mostly got on here. I bet they wouldn't say HST first! I'd probably expect most to say Class 80x since it's got good looks.

 

[Purple Orange]

Makes you wonder what you'd get if you surveyed the general public/regular travelers rather than railway nerds like you've mostly got on here. I bet they wouldn't say HST first! I'd probably expect most to say Class 80x since it's got good looks.

Exactly. I’ve just opened up a classic train design poll, and HST powers ahead. Madness really.

 

[py_megapixel]

I wish people would just "get over" the HST. They were revolutionary when they were introduced, but the design is now more than 45 years old and the Mk3s are thoroughly falling apart; meanwhile, factors such as the acceleration pale in comparison to what can be built nowadays.

 

[Purple Orange]

I wish people would just "get over" the HST. They were revolutionary when they were introduced, but the design is now more than 45 years old and the Mk3s are thoroughly falling apart.

I’m sure it’s nostalgia working as the driving force.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’m sure it’s nostalgia working as the driving force.

I do wonder if the 80x would be quite as reviled if it had a premium seat in it rather than a budget one?

As I recall, 175s and 180s were not universally hated by enthusiasts when new because they are a significant comfort improvement on what went before.