Best UK 'High-speed train'

[MattRat]

The design and all the important bits are Japanese (except the diesel packs - MTU/Rolls Royce).
It doesn't matter where they are screwed together - and the ones that have cracks were not all built in Italy (the 802s) anyway.

Then why are the 395s fine then? What's the difference?

Hardly objective when you consider that the infrastructure, not the trains, prevents 140mph running. Cracks can happen to any train - indeed the 68s and Northern's CAF stock have similar issues as did the British built 158s when they were new.

80x certainly aren't perfect by a long stretch but it'd be nice to see actual reasoning rather than moaning about seats (which is a fault of the spec laid down by the purchaser, not the design of the train itself).

While I feel like i should actually remain unbiased, I can't help but point to a general lack of build quality. I'm fact, the reason you see a lot of 5 car sets on crowded routes, is becuase of coupling issues, so a service meant to be 10 cars, becomes 5 cars. Also, cracks can be very dangerous depending on where they are, and should be taken seriously. If a train operator doesn't do that, then I say they are a bad company.

 

[CBlue]

While I feel like i should actually remain unbiased, I can't help but point to a general lack of build quality. I'm fact, the reason you see a lot of 5 car sets on crowded routes, is becuase of coupling issues, so a service meant to be 10 cars, becomes 5 cars. Also, cracks can be very dangerous depending on where they are, and should be taken seriously. If a train operator doesn't do that, then I say they are a bad company.

Oh I don't disagree - no way should such poor build quality be tolerated, but my point was that they're hardly unique in that regard.

Just about everything bought from CAF is a good example of that!

 

[MattRat]

Oh I don't disagree - no way should such poor build quality be tolerated, but my point was that they're hardly unique in that regard.

Just about everything bought from CAF is a good example of that!

Well, the poll is about best.....

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Then why are the 395s fine then? What's the difference?

I have no idea. They spend less time on NR infrastructure (ie off HS1) at generally lower speeds, perhaps?
Scotrail's 385s have had some similar faults, apparently, so it's not just the 80x series.

 

[D365]

Then why are the 395s fine then? What's the difference?

The fact that they’re a completely different product to the 80x series.

 

[MattRat]

The fact that they’re a completely different product to the 80x series.

They are both Hitachi AT300 trains, unless I've been lied to.

 

[AventraFlex]

Eurostar E300 for me. Love everything about them.

 

[Kyle2]

91/Mark 4. Would have given it to the HST but i always hated the slam doors on the Mk3's (hard to get off them when you've had a few drinks) so by virtue of having power doors, the Mk4s take it.

 

[D365]

They are both Hitachi AT300 trains, unless I've been lied to.

Which, as I’ve said before, means little. ”AT300” is a marketing name.

 

[MattRat]

Which, as I’ve said before, means little. ”AT300” is a marketing name.

Either I missed it or you've said it elsewhere that I haven't seen. And do they really have nothing in common? I would have thought Hitachi would use the Class 395 as a base when designing the Class 8XX, as that would cut down on costs.

 

[TRAX]

Interesting to think the HST is ahead of the 373 !

 

[HST274]

Obviously 8xx is the future but I don't think I can ever forget travelling to Paddington on an HST (or for that matter a turbo when they still ran on the north Cotswolds line a bit but that is far from high speed lol). Comfort was far better, the XC HST's far outclass the voyagers for me, and to be fair the nostalgia surrounding them is huge.

 

[MattRat]

Interesting to think the HST is ahead of the 373 !

I think it's more interesting to see how many votes the 8XX has.

 

[xotGD]

A load of units and only one loco-hauled option. Very easy to choose where to vote. Mind, I always preferred it when a 90 turned up in place of a 91 or, better still, the 89.

 

[MattRat]

A load of units and only one loco-hauled option. Very easy to choose where to vote. Mind, I always preferred it when a 90 turned up in place of a 91 or, better still, the 89.

You don't count HST as loco hauled?

 

[Railperf]

The best current go-anywhere Intercity train has to be a Class 802 bi-mode - but ultimately it might well be the Class 810 Aurora units. The 802's run cleanly on electric, and can run at HST speeds away from the knitting - but diesel performance is too slow in this day and age. The interiors are okay - I've done Penzance and Edinburgh on both from London and felt reasonably comfortable. The LNER order at seat service is fab for when you want a snack but don't want to have to leave your seat.
If we are talking electric only - i would propose the Class 390 Pendolino. By far the best ride and noise suppression. The ability to tilt on TASS routes gives it an time and speed advantage over other electric Intercity trains. The narrow windows and quite dim lighting are the downsides. Later Italian Pendolino builds featured much larger windows, and i would prefer IET size windows and levels of interior brightness.
Best diesel only train is probably still the original HST. although performance is slower than the class leading Class 222 Meridians, the lack of engine noise, brightness and interior layout (LNER and XC spec) make it a winner. 40+years of engineered improvements. Would have loved to see retractioned power cars with AC traction drive / cruise control / more modern wheelslip protection and coupled to a Mk4 or Mk5 coach designed to modern PRM specs.
Given an unlimited budget, i would have electrified all the major arteries and equipped them with a fleet of tilting Pendolinos capable of 155mph , bigger windows and better customer infotainment. And an on train service to match LNER's seat service.

 

[xotGD]

You don't count HST as loco hauled?

Definitely not!

 

[Wolfie]

Indeed. And diesel fumes kicked out in cities and where people are (e.g. the thick fug that used to pervade Paddington's trainshed, alongside the smell of human excrement) cause a lot more harm than diesel fumes kicked out in the middle of rural Cornwall.



Seats are a matter of opinion. I am no fan of the Sophia, but it is definitely, for me, far, far better than the awful InterCity 70.

Really, in my view cosmetic things like seats should not be considered in a vote like this, you can always swap them.

Agreed in the round. The nostalgia vote is winning. Great if you are able bodied and don't care about the diesel damage to the environment and our lungs.

 

[MattRat]

The best current go-anywhere Intercity train has to be a Class 802 bi-mode - but ultimately it might well be the Class 810 Aurora units. The 802's run cleanly on electric, and can run at HST speeds away from the knitting - but diesel performance is too slow in this day and age. The interiors are okay - I've done Penzance and Edinburgh on both from London and felt reasonably comfortable. The LNER order at seat service is fab for when you want a snack but don't want to have to leave your seat.
If we are talking electric only - i would propose the Class 390 Pendolino. By far the best ride and noise suppression. The ability to tilt on TASS routes gives it an time and speed advantage over other electric Intercity trains. The narrow windows and quite dim lighting are the downsides. Later Italian Pendolino builds featured much larger windows, and i would prefer IET size windows and levels of interior brightness.
Best diesel only train is probably still the original HST. although performance is slower than the class leading Class 222 Meridians, the lack of engine noise, brightness and interior layout (LNER and XC spec) make it a winner. 40+years of engineered improvements. Would have loved to see retractioned power cars with AC traction drive / cruise control / more modern wheelslip protection and coupled to a Mk4 or Mk5 coach designed to modern PRM specs.
Given an unlimited budget, i would have electrified all the major arteries and equipped them with a fleet of tilting Pendolinos capable of 155mph , bigger windows and better customer infotainment. And an on train service to match LNER's seat service.

So what did you vote for?

Agreed in the round. The nostalgia vote is winning. Great if you are able bodied and don't care about the diesel damage to the environment and our lungs.

You could also say that (nostalgia) about the Class 91 and Class 373.....

 

[HST274]

Agreed in the round. The nostalgia vote is winning. Great if you are able bodied and don't care about the diesel damage to the environment and our lungs.

Of course electric trains are the way forward but I tell you honestly I have taken a two and a half hour train on an IET and a two and a half train on an EMR HST and I found the latter more comfortable, better colour scheme and better ride. That is not nostalgia. Whilst it will make up some votes calling all of the votes nostalgia takes away from a good train. In terms of environment, yes they lose but in my opinion comfort matters more in terms of a favourite.

 

[Purple Orange]

44 votes for the HST and a 225 in 2nd place? Nonsense. It seems there is some serious nostalgia going on here.

Best UK high speed trains are: Eurostar E320, Eurostar E300, Javelin, IET in that order. No debating that in my view.

 

[Wolfie]

Of course electric trains are the way forward but I tell you honestly I have taken a two and a half hour train on an IET and a two and a half train on an EMR HST and I found the latter more comfortable, better colour scheme and better ride. That is not nostalgia. Whilst it will make up some votes calling all of the votes nostalgia takes away from a good train. In terms of environment, yes they lose but in my opinion comfort matters more in terms of a favourite.

Sorry but as someone with mobility and back issues MK3 coaches belong in the scrapper.

 

[Purple Orange]

Of course electric trains are the way forward but I tell you honestly I have taken a two and a half hour train on an IET and a two and a half train on an EMR HST and I found the latter more comfortable, better colour scheme and better ride. That is not nostalgia. Whilst it will make up some votes calling all of the votes nostalgia takes away from a good train. In terms of environment, yes they lose but in my opinion comfort matters more in terms of a favourite.

But the question is not about comfort. If you want comfort, you may as well say a train hauled by the Mallard with some Pullman coaches is the best high speed train.

 

[MattRat]

Sorry but as someone with mobility and back issues MK3 coaches belong in the scrapper.

Shame they never had coaches they could use that were better than the MK3. Oh wait....

But the question is not about comfort. If you want comfort, you may as well say a train hauled by the Mallard with some Pullman coaches is the best high speed train.

It should be about, IMO, multiple factors. All trains have strengths and weaknesses, and 'Best' should be about whether the strengths outweigh the weaknesses. I think people should also bear in mind 'IET' isn't actually that disabled friendly.

 

[D365]

I would have thought Hitachi would use the Class 395 as a base when designing the Class 8XX, as that would cut down on costs.

Well yes but the end product (Cl800) is very different. Hence why the 395s have (so far) not been prone to the same issues.

 

[Bevan Price]

Class 91, closely followed by HST.
397 and 80x not bad, but 5 coach sets are too small for many of the services they will get used on (post-Covid).

 

[Railperf]

44 votes for the HST and a 225 in 2nd place? Nonsense. It seems there is some serious nostalgia going on here.

Best UK high speed trains are: Eurostar E320, Eurostar E300, Javelin, IET in that order. No debating that in my view.

Eurostar trains cannot be used by UK passengers between two UK stations. Therefore irrelevant. But they do qualify in a best International high-speed train survey.
The Class 395 is a great high-speed commuter train - particularly if you live in Ashford or on the Kent Coast stations served via Ashford. However, the interior is as dull as ditchwater and there are no amenities on board. It has a limited range of operations and destination compared to say an IET.

And would you choose a Class 395 over a pendolino on the WCML? Seriously?

You have to ask the question, what train currently running today can reach every destination on the UK Intercity map and provides the best overall passenger experience - including comfort and ride. So the train has to be bi-mode or diesel.

For the average passenger, the shiny new bi-mode IET will do the job. The enthusiasts choice will usually be the HST due to the comfier looking seats, and lack of engine /electrical noise.
Probably the best train would be a modern HST2 with bi-mode or trimode power cars/power packs and a comfort level approaching the LNER Mk3/MK4 XC Mk 3 standard of seating, windows lining up with tables etc. But as it doesn't exist yet, we are stuck with HST. This is the only train that currently provides the best level of passenger comfort and can reach EVERY destination on the UK Intercity network. it is the winner for that reason.

 

[MattRat]

Eurostar trains cannot be used by UK passengers between two UK stations. Therefore irrelevant. But they do qualify in a best International high-speed train survey.
The Class 395 is a great high-speed commuter train - particularly if you live in Ashford or on the Kent Coast stations served via Ashford. However, the interior is as dull as ditchwater and there are no amenities on board. It has a limited range of operations and destination compared to say an IET.

You have to ask the question, what train currently running today can reach every destination on the UK Intercity map and provides the best overall passenger experience - including comfort and ride. So the train has to be bi-mode or diesel. For the average passenger, the shiny new bi-mode IET will do the job. The enthusiasts choice will usually be the HST due to the comfier looking seats, and lack of engine /electrical noise.

Class 22X and Class 180: Are we a joke to you?

 

[Railperf]

Class 22X: Am I a joke to you?

I've been on a few Class 222's lately, and they are a not a nice train to sit in as a passenger - sorry!. Class 180 would be preferred- but they are just way too unreliable. There;s no guarantee they will last the day without a serious engine or transmission issue! Still the interiors of both trains way under par compared with the LNER / GNER Mallard MK3/MK 4/ XC interior standard - And there is the drone of those engines under the floor!

Class 91, closely followed by HST.
397 and 80x not bad, but 5 coach sets are too small for many of the services they will get used on (post-Covid).

Yes, but a 91 won't get you to those far flung places such as Aberdeen, Inverness Swansea, Plymouth and Penzance unless someome starts stringing some wires up - and we are way behind some other countries for that.
The 397's have comfy seats, but the ride was shocking, way too much vibration coming into the passenger cabin. Back to back ride 397 vs Pendolino confirms that - but they are limited to electrified destinations only - so in a way don't qualify.

Sadly nothing in the UK comes close to the Italians ETR1000 or NTV Italo ETR575 in terms of style and comfort. But the Italians do have a virtually fully electrified Intercity network complemented by a load of high-speed lines.

 

[MattRat]

I've been on a few Class 222's lately, and they are a not a nice train to sit in as a passenger - sorry!. Class 180 would be preferred- but they are just way too unreliable. There;s no guarantee they will last the day without a serious engine or transmission issue! Still the interiors of both trains way under par compared with the LNER / GNER Mallard MK3/MK 4/ XC interior standard - And there is the drone of those engines under the floor!

Which operator for the 22X. They were fine under Virgin, and the only complaints I've heard are from people riding on XC.