Best UK 'High-speed train'

[tetudo boy]

I like the HST's, but the Pendolino has to be my choice.

 

[AverageTD]

It was covered up thread, they were disqualified (by some) because you can't travel between UK stations aboard them, which leaves no UK high speed trains at all!

Job done.

The true answer!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

By that logic, a 395 would not qualify if the whole fleet was moved to any other line. If SouthEastern took on a fleet of 80Xs to run on HS1, you’d then have to consider all 80X trains as high speed.

So the 373 and 374 - which in normal times travel on HS1 and stop at more than one station in the UK - are excluded simply because you can't buy a ticket for that journey?

Isn't it all semantics?
An HST in Scotland or the South West is hardly a high speed train at 100mph max.
Really, my point is that the NR classic network is not high speed in the modern sense (though parts of it might get there with ETCS).
373/4 of course qualify, but you can't sample them as a UK domestic passenger.

 

[Purple Orange]

Isn't it all semantics?
An HST in Scotland or the South West is hardly a high speed train at 100mph max.
Really, my point is that the NR classic network is not high speed in the modern sense (though parts of it might get there with ETCS).
373/4 of course qualify, but you can't sample them as a UK domestic passenger.

Most of the network may not be high speed in the modern sense, but the train itself is. A Javelin train can hit 140mph max, as can a Pendolino, an IET and an IC225.

Isn’t the thread simply about the best high speed train? Not what is the best high speed train within the limitations of the British rail network.

 

[AverageTD]

Most of the network may not be high speed in the modern sense, but the train itself is. A Javelin train can hit 140mph max, as can a Pendolino, an IET and an IC225.

Isn’t the thread simply about the best high speed train? Not what is the best high speed train within the limitations of the British rail network.

Still, 140mph is hardly ground breaking in terms of high speed trains. I'm sure many would agree that it has to be able to do at least 143mph or 155mph to qualify. This still means a fair few trains would qualify on record attempts but I don't think it's fair to base a fleet in general on one train's achievements.

This is getting a bit off topic and I think everyone understands what the OP is asking but my dislike of the overuse of the term High Speed Train in the UK gets on my nerves!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Still, 140mph is hardly ground breaking in terms of high speed trains. I'm sure many would agree that it has to be able to do at least 143mph or 155mph to qualify. This still means a fair few trains would qualify on record attempts but I don't think it's fair to base a fleet in general on one train's achievements.

This is getting a bit off topic and I think everyone understands what the OP is asking but my dislike of the overuse of the term High Speed Train in the UK gets on my nerves!

The train whose name actually is "High Speed Train" is a 125mph train, of course.

 

[AM9]

Still, 140mph is hardly ground breaking in terms of high speed trains. I'm sure many would agree that it has to be able to do at least 143mph or 155mph to qualify. This still means a fair few trains would qualify on record attempts but I don't think it's fair to base a fleet in general on one train's achievements.

This is getting a bit off topic and I think everyone understands what the OP is asking but my dislike of the overuse of the term High Speed Train in the UK gets on my nerves!

I think that the whole purpose of the thread was to underwrite the OP's preference for 40 year old HSTs.

 

[zwk500]

Still, 140mph is hardly ground breaking in terms of high speed trains. I'm sure many would agree that it has to be able to do at least 143mph or 155mph to qualify. This still means a fair few trains would qualify on record attempts but I don't think it's fair to base a fleet in general on one train's achievements.

This is getting a bit off topic and I think everyone understands what the OP is asking but my dislike of the overuse of the term High Speed Train in the UK gets on my nerves!

As it happens, the UIC don't entirely agree with you:

High-speed rail combines many different elements which constitute a “whole, integrated system": infrastructure (new lines designed for speeds above 250 km/h and, in some cases, upgraded existing lines for speeds of up to 200 or even 220 km/h), rolling stock (specially-designed train sets), telecommunications, operating conditions and equipment, etc. In view of the fact that many high-speed trains are also compatible with the conventional network, the term "high-speed traffic" is also frequently understood to signify the movements of this type of train on conventional lines but at speeds lower than those permitted on the new high-speed infrastructure.

(My emphasis of the 2 separate points)

Intercity and High-Speed – UIC - International union of railways

High-Speed rail A comprehensive system allowing door-to-door transportation Growing environmental awareness due to the pandemic has resulted in a shift in customer mobility habits and has revived…

uic.org

200kph =124mph, 250kph = 155mph.

 

[MattRat]

I think that the whole purpose of the thread was to underwrite the OP's preference for 40 year old HSTs.

Personally, I'd either pick the Pendolino, or the e300 Eurostar. But 1) I want to take a relatively hands off approach to the poll, and 2) I actually can't decide, I think I just love both equally.

 

[spotify95]

I've made my vote, and (in my opinion at least) you can't beat the original Intercity 125, or HST. We recently lost them on the Midland Mainline, and when I traveled on them, they were rather comfortable, as well as being spacious. What we have now (the 222s) are neither, and I'm actually looking forward to the introduction of the 810s.

I also noted that many others had also voted for the HST so I can't be the only one thinking that the original is the best!

Class 22X and Class 180: Are we a joke to you?

They're not the best if you ask me, but I'd rather take the 180 purely because I can get a decent FM, 4G and/or GPS signal through the 180s. The 22x's have that abysmal screening foil that blocks out RF, so in my opinion the 22x's are not fit for purpose. Added to the fact that they vibrate almost immediately after accelerating from a station (why do they do this?), and they're not that comfortable, leads me to believe that the 22x's should have been given a one way ticket to Newport, and the Mk3s refurbished to PRM compliant standards.

 

[najaB]

Added to the fact that they vibrate almost immediately after accelerating from a station (why do they do this?), and they're not that comfortable, leads me to believe that the 22x's should have been given a one way ticket to Newport, and the Mk3s refurbished to PRM compliant standards.

The experience of a ScotRail (and to a lesser extent GWR) suggests that might not have been a simple undertaking.

 

[AverageTD]

I'm not sure whether this has been taken advantage of in timetabling yet or not, but the 222s naturally have a massive performance advantage over the HSTs too.

 

[GNER 91128]

I went for the Class 373, but it was a close choice between that and the 225.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As it happens, the UIC don't entirely agree with you:

(My emphasis of the 2 separate points)

Intercity and High-Speed – UIC - International union of railways

High-Speed rail A comprehensive system allowing door-to-door transportation Growing environmental awareness due to the pandemic has resulted in a shift in customer mobility habits and has revived…

uic.org

200kph =124mph, 250kph = 155mph.

On that basis, the Nova3 sets should be included as they have a design speed of 125mph. The fact that neither the linespeed on the routes in question, nor the locomotives pulling or pushing them allows this is beside the point!

 

[MattRat]

On that basis, the Nova3 sets should be included as they have a design speed of 125mph. The fact that neither the linespeed on the routes in question, nor the locomotives pulling or pushing them allows this is beside the point!

Don't the Nova 3s run on the same track as the Nova 1s?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Don't the Nova 3s run on the same track as the Nova 1s?

They share some, but I don't think there's ANY at 125, maybe a bit south of York before the Leeds lines branch off. If and when they're all in service on the planned routes there'll also be York to Northallerton- but as the Redcars will call at Thirsk and Northallerton I don't think they'd hit 125 even if there was a locomotive capable of it.

 

[Darandio]

They share some, but I don't think there's ANY at 125, maybe a bit south of York before the Leeds lines branch off. If and when they're all in service on the planned routes there'll also be York to Northallerton- but as the Redcars will call at Thirsk and Northallerton I don't think they'd hit 125 even if there was a locomotive capable of it.

If there was locomotive capability they would between York and Thirsk.

 

[AverageTD]

As it happens, the UIC don't entirely agree with you:

(My emphasis of the 2 separate points)

Intercity and High-Speed – UIC - International union of railways

High-Speed rail A comprehensive system allowing door-to-door transportation Growing environmental awareness due to the pandemic has resulted in a shift in customer mobility habits and has revived…

uic.org

200kph =124mph, 250kph = 155mph.

Really not keen on that definition. Allows a huge plethora of standard intercity trains, not just in the UK, to classify themselves as high speed trains just because they hit a reasonable speed for express intercity trains on classic lines (200kph). It reminds me a little of an Intercity ad back in the late 80s/early 90s when IC claimed they had more 200kph trains than any other country in Europe. While not being technically wrong, Britain would be laughed off the park during the 90s if anyone claimed they were leading Europe in high speed rail technology!

 

[Mat17]

I always wanted to see a pacer in Intercity livery, just for a laugh.

 

[MattRat]

Really not keen on that definition. Allows a huge plethora of standard intercity trains, not just in the UK, to classify themselves as high speed trains just because they hit a reasonable speed for express intercity trains on classic lines (200kph). It reminds me a little of an Intercity ad back in the late 80s/early 90s when IC claimed they had more 200kph trains than any other country in Europe. While not being technically wrong, Britain would be laughed off the park during the 90s if anyone claimed they were leading Europe in high speed rail technology!

I feel it's probably just to make the UK feel good about itself. However, if just talking the UK, the trains are technically 'high speed' compared to everything else.

I always wanted to see a pacer in Intercity livery, just for a laugh.

You could probably get away with an 'Express' Sprinter doing that actually....

 

[spotify95]

I'm not sure whether this has been taken advantage of in timetabling yet or not, but the 222s naturally have a massive performance advantage over the HSTs too.

In the old timetable (pre-May 2021), the 07:54 departure from Wellingborough to Leicester was sheduled to take approx. 37 minutes, with 10 minutes Wellingborough - Kettering.
All of the other trains were timetabled for 30 minutes Wellingborough - Leicester, and 7-8 minutes Wellingborough - Kettering.
So I'm pretty sure that the timetable will be specific for the 22x and their performance advantage taken care of already: the 07:54 was the only HST that stopped at Wellingborough going north (the rest were all 22x).
It was also commonplace for 222s to be waiting a few minutes (particularly at Kettering) if a HST was replaced with a 222 at last minute.
Still, I'd rather the HST's were still about...

 

[Prestige15]

All i can say about the 8XX that even stagecoach gold buses has better seats than these units

 

[py_megapixel]

All i can say about the 8XX that even stagecoach gold buses has better seats than these units

I guess that you do not have especially long legs then...

 

[Prestige15]

I guess that you do not have especially long legs then...

Pretty short for a 5,11

 

[py_megapixel]

Pretty short for a 5,11

Fair enough. I'm well over 6' and have long legs, so if you asked me whether I'd prefer Stagecoach Gold or an IET I'd choose the IET every time... the legroom on most buses isn't great and I think it's exacerbated by the thick-backed seats used on Gold

If I get the seat immediately in front of the stairs, though (where room is generally a bit better), I'd agree it's probably more comfortable.

 

[Purple Orange]

I was sat on a TPE 802 from Manchester to Newcastle and back recently. Absolutely fine. Nothing to complain about.