Birmingham-Brighton via WCML and Clapham?

[Humberside]

Remember when Connex started their Rugby-Gatwick trains they had wanted to go to Birmingham. Well, there is a chance that the original plan of a Birmingham-Gatwick service via the WCML could happen.

A very small piece in the Railway Magazine says 'Industry Insiders' predict that if Govia wins the West Midlands franchise they will use 377/2's to operate between the West Midlands and Brighton via the WCML and Clapham Junction. I presume this would incorporate the existing Watford Junction-Brighton service which the DfT plan to cut back to Clapham Junction or divert onto the slow lines south of Clapham.

Funny how if this happens, things would full circle, from

Birmingham-Gatwick/Brighton (original Connex proposal)
Rugby-Gatwick/Brighton (actual Connex service and the reason for ordering the dual voltage 377/2's)
Watford-Gatwick/Brighton (current service)
Watford-Clapham Junction and possibly somewhere south of Clapham using the slow lines (as proposed by the DfT)
and back to Birmingham-Brighton

 

[Guinness]

I have a feeling it will be exteneded to Northampton rather than Rugby. More connections to local stops rather than Rugby and there is plenty of capacity at Northampton.

Birmingham - Brighton could be a possiblity seen as Virgin are cutting back to Gatwick Airport but capacity and service performance are huge problems that need to be addressed as the route does go through some large bottlenecks.

 

[Julian G]

Remember when Connex started their Rugby-Gatwick trains they had wanted to go to Birmingham. Well, there is a chance that the original plan of a Birmingham-Gatwick service via the WCML could happen.

A very small piece in the Railway Magazine says 'Industry Insiders' predict that if Govia wins the West Midlands franchise they will use 377/2's to operate between the West Midlands and Brighton via the WCML and Clapham Junction. I presume this would incorporate the existing Watford Junction-Brighton service which the DfT plan to cut back to Clapham Junction or divert onto the slow lines south of Clapham.

Funny how if this happens, things would full circle, from

Birmingham-Gatwick/Brighton (original Connex proposal)
Rugby-Gatwick/Brighton (actual Connex service and the reason for ordering the dual voltage 377/2's)
Watford-Gatwick/Brighton (current service)
Watford-Clapham Junction and possibly somewhere south of Clapham using the slow lines (as proposed by the DfT)
and back to Birmingham-Brighton

If anything involves bringing back 319s

 

[87015]

I have a feeling it will be exteneded to Northampton rather than Rugby. More connections to local stops rather than Rugby and there is plenty of capacity at Northampton.

Original plan was Birmingham than Northampton terminater. Not enough capacity available at Northampton was the claim - a lot less available now with them messing about with split services.

Virgin blocked the Brum services - revenue loss

I'd like to see a Rug-Brighton or similar return, but i can't really see it. Be nice to get some service improvements from our WCML "upgrade" down here!

 

[960012]

hmmm, convert the 442s to dual voltage and theres your answer, a totally unreliable train that will **** up the WCML even more than those dodgey pendos do now!!

 

[Guinness]

hmmm, convert the 442s to dual voltage and theres your answer, a totally unreliable train that will **** up the WCML even more than those dodgey pendos do now!!

To be fair the Pendolinos have much improved since a introduction. I don't know the exact Miles per Casuality figure but I've read somewhere it's better than some trains in operation with long distance TOCs.

What's the point with 442s, when you have 350s doing the job well?

 

[Techniquest]

350s are absolutely awesome units! They are perfectly suited to the job, replacing them on SL at all would be mental.

 

[Ascot]

Try and cram anything else into New Street would be very hard, Coventry to New Street is already mad, terminate it at International could be an option, use platform 1, or Stechford on the so called platform 3.

350s are absolutely awesome units! They are perfectly suited to the job, replacing them on SL at all would be mental.

I'm saving that quote for the future

 

[Techniquest]

You do that! I'm more than happy for you to do so! I want to see you bring it up one day should my opinion on 350s ever change.

 

[Ascot]

You do that! I'm more than happy for you to do so! I want to see you bring it up one day should my opinion on 350s ever change.

Not on about that, just the fact it's a unit and you like them and critisise us lot for liking them :razz:

 

[Mojo]

Try and cram anything else into New Street would be very hard, Coventry to New Street is already mad, terminate it at International could be an option, use platform 1, or Stechford on the so called platform 3.

That would probably lose any of the services' viability though - the idea being to connect B'ham (& WCML stns) to Gatwick Apt avoiding a change at Reading or Ldn/Watford. They could use the paths of the hourly/(could become halfhourly) B'ham to Northampton stoppers.

 

[Techniquest]

Not on about that, just the fact it's a unit and you like them and critisise us lot for liking them :razz:

I said you lot didn't like them? When?

Always liked 350s from the very outset.

 

[Ascot]

I said you lot didn't like them? When?

Always liked 350s from the very outset.

Please Mr Smiths if you look at my post it does not mention anything that you said we didn't like them. It states how you go around boasting "oh i only go on proper traction not some poxy 47s" and moan at us for doing Valleys bashes and Essex bashes.

2nd paragraph, lesson of the hour, always read the phrase. It saves alot, however if you mis-read that then a GCSE maybe an order?

3rd paragraph, does this come under standards of posts and spellings? Added this sentence so it makes a paragraph.

no harm ment mate

 

[Tom]

I think Mark needs a GCSE too. He spelt meant incorrectly.

 

[Techniquest]

Please Mr Smiths if you look at my post it does not mention anything that you said we didn't like them. It states how you go around boasting "oh i only go on proper traction not some poxy 47s" and moan at us for doing Valleys bashes and Essex bashes.

2nd paragraph, lesson of the hour, always read the phrase. It saves alot, however if you mis-read that then a GCSE maybe an order?

3rd paragraph, does this come under standards of posts and spellings? Added this sentence so it makes a paragraph.

no harm ment mate

I was under the assumption you were insinuating that I was accusing you of disliking 350s. The point you were making was, therefore, a tad ambiguous.

I am aware that I do go on about not bashing 47s (Duff bashers, the worst of the traction followers for sure), indeed I do recall quite a lot of discussion about the Valley Lines Challenge in which I slated it off due to it involving much bashing of Pacers. I stand by all of what I said in that thread though, bashing Pacers all day would require a defective brain and/or a lack of common sense. I mean, come on, who wants to bash Pacers all day instead of something vastly more interesting? To define something more interesting you only have to flip your locomotives book open to the first few pages...08s, 09s, 14s, 20s, 25s, 26s, 31s, 33s, 37s...The list could go on for ages.

I cleared my GCSEs (of which I did three altogether - Speaking and Listening, Literature and Language - all of which I am mighty proud of) years ago, indeed I do believe that my use of English, at times at least, is superior. to a considerable number of others' use of language.

The three paragraphs thing was a joke I used once in a post that was supposed to be quite short and sweet, but ended up into the more usual standard of three paragraphs. I guess that the chap(s) who said I take longer to say things compared to other people is, therefore, true, to the extent that I can and will easily use 3 paragraphs to make a short but sweet point. Which would go some way to explaining how come I spend some long in front of a VDU...

Anyway, I've got to get ready to go to Hereford for my theory test and work...I'm not at all nervous, I swear...

Regards,
WhatNowFan/WHSmithFan/WSXFan/FGWFan/43019/Captain_Pepper (I'm making a point in this last bit, I promise. Explanation will follow)

 

[Ascot]

Getting my 12 GCSEs as we speak and also i am accepted in the IB at my school for Post 16.

You really can't say much with just 3 GCSEs and do we all have locomotive books? I much rather have the Blacks or Millets book for Winter 2006/07. After all we all love DofE.

 

[Techniquest]

I have more than just three GCSEs fool...Just included the relevant ones...

 

[Guinness]

Does Birmingham - Brighton really have anything to do with GCSEs? :roll:

Anyway, I've recently read an article about this but I can't find the link for it. It was a suggestion about extending services to Milton Keynes once it's remodelled.

 

[Ascot]

I have more than just three GCSEs fool...Just included the relevant ones...

So that means for me...

Maths:-1
English Literature:-1
English Language:-1
GNVQ intermediate science:-4

That's the basics.

Anyhow back to the topic. It'd be interesting to see what they come out of it or if they open the bay platform on New Street and call it 13.

 

[class 313]

hmmm, convert the 442s to dual voltage and theres your answer, a totally unreliable train that will **** up the WCML even more than those dodgey pendos do now!!

377/2s are quite reliable but like Julian said, untill Southern are able to use more 377/2s they will draft some of their 319s onto the line, wich is good news! as they a more comfy and are quicker at changing voltage.

I wouldnt be suprised if the service was put forward to Rugby. There is no need to just go to Northampton coz they could just change at Watford for Silverlink.

 

[westcoaster]

I wouldnt be suprised if the service was put forward to Rugby. There is no need to just go to Northampton coz they could just change at Watford for Silverlink.[/QUOTE]

This is true, but next year when the current silverlink franchise goes. Govia who run southern are in for the new west midland franchise, which would include service's to brum and crewe from london,so why not extend some to the south coast using 350's as these are dual voltage units, as well as usining the 377's.

 

[Guinness]

This is true, but next year when the current silverlink franchise goes. Govia who run southern are in for the new west midland franchise, which would include service's to brum and crewe from london,so why not extend some to the south coast using 350's as these are dual voltage units, as well as usining the 377's.

Crewe - London Euston - Brighton definately can't happen for the simple reason of no route!

I can see a few peak trains been extended Brighton - Birmingham after XC bails out of Brighton when New XC comes into play.

 

[westcoaster]

My mistake i ment why not run some Crewe/Brum- rugby- Mkc- Watford- clapham-Brighton/Gatwick- or the south coast.

 

[Guinness]

My mistake i ment why not run some Crewe/Brum- rugby- Mkc- Watford- clapham-Brighton/Gatwick- or the south coast.

Hmm... Not til Trent Valley Project has been completed (Due 2008). With Virgin West Coast increasing frequencies I doubt they will be any paths for regular Brighton services until the 4 Tracking Project is completed. Any paths left will probably go to more Liverpool Lime Street/ Crewe - London Euston Siverlink/CT stopping trains.

 

[87015]

They'll have to be allowed to extend the Euston-Northamptons towards Brum before thinking about any service of this sort surely?

Think Northampton would be the sensible terminus of this service, that was Connex's first choice of terminus when Brum was blocked. Remember it was Virgin who blocked the Birmingham Connex proposal-don't see any reason why they wouldn't do so a second time.

I'd like to see it though

 

[westcoaster]

A train in the morning comes from crewe and finishes at northampton, but a few minutes later continues to euston so it would be a good place to terminate i agree, but it could be done that is what i ment, i would like to see it happen but i doubt it will.