Blackpool Heritage Tram Operations Suspended

[Bletchleyite]

Are there not more pressing items that the council need to attend to in Blackpool noting what they have to budget for?

With volunteer staffing it really should be possible for the heritage operation to break even.

 

[geoffk]

In Bern they even let the dampftram loose occasionally

Indeed and it had no difficulty keeping up with the modern trams which are more frequent than those in Blackpool. I've been on heritage tram tours elsewhere in Europe but these have been private charters rather than scheduled services.

 

[Harpo]

Are there not more pressing items that the council need to attend to in Blackpool noting what they have to budget for?

Tourism?

 

[Trackman]

Tourism?

Indeed - Economy, Jobs.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Tourism?

Is it not the case that Blackpool has a reputation for various social matters that need urgently addressing, as the effects of those could well affect the tourism that you make reference to. Is Blackpool Zoo as popular with tourists these days as it used to be?

There are certain areas in central Blackpool that really have gone socially downhill since my boyhood days in the early 1950s.

 

[Barclay]

Hopefully it would entail a far more widely publicised operation, appealing to a broader audience and ultimately raising more money.

A smaller fleet would likely be inevitable; 700 and/or 717 would be obvious, presumably Bolton 66 would remain and possibly an illuminated car - the Western Train would be perhaps the best choice, as it’s serviceable and offers good capacity, although of course it takes up a fair bit of depot space. That would probably be sufficient, perhaps you could argue for a Brush car amongst the ranks and personally I think Princess Alice very much warrants returning to traffic as a valuable asset for the summer season, but ‘mission creep’ would be an easy pitfall here and before long you’d end up back where you started. As much as I value them on a personal level, “modern” stuff like the Centenary cars and Millennium Balloon rebuilds don’t really have the wider appeal that would be needed to draw people onto an “old tram”, and I can’t see them having a place in any slimmed down operational fleet, sadly.

But of course this is mere speculation, time will tell.

I must admit that I visited Blackpool for the first time in many years this year, and couldn't find out how to ride the heritage trams!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Amongst various roles that I have played in my 79 year old life, whilst that of Senior Management in industry in my mid-30s obviously took preference, I first became a folk singer in the 1960s when at Manchester University and old age has not made me forget the words of many of the songs that I have sung. Noting the mention of Lancashire tourism on this thread, especially on the Fylde coast in the mill-town Wakes Weeks, when the resorts there were inundated with mill-workers who saw Blackpool as a second heaven, times moved onwards and the advent of package holidays in the 1960s to overseas resorts noted for hot climates really took its toll on weekly stays in small boaring houses in the town.

One folk song, Last Train, written by Stanley Accrington who held a role at Rochdale station, tells of the demise of passenger train services of the type mill-workers once used and the complimentary demise of the Lancashire holidays tourism and I will show a couple of verses below....

"And at three in the morning when I used to sign on
I lie awake half in a dream
I'm a guard on a special that's bound for the coast
With a 4-6-0 getting up steam.

We've packages for printers and pigeons to release
Spare seats after Heywood not one
Now they jump on a plane for a fortnight in Spain
And the last train to Fleetwood has gone".

 

[nanstallon]

Well, Blackpool - if you don't give the customers what they want, they will go elsewhere! The world doesn't owe anyone a living.

 

[Gostav]

I rode in a balloon last year and I noticed the interior was a bit worn and musty, it wouldn't seem surprising if the inspector was unhappy and found more safety concerns.

 

[Towers]

I rode in a balloon last year and I noticed the interior was a bit worn and musty, it wouldn't seem surprising if the inspector was unhappy and found more safety concerns.

Blimey, let’s hope he isn’t off to some TOC depots next then, half the rail network will be shut down!

 

[bramling]

Is it not the case that Blackpool has a reputation for various social matters that need urgently addressing, as the effects of those could well affect the tourism that you make reference to. Is Blackpool Zoo as popular with tourists these days as it used to be?

There are certain areas in central Blackpool that really have gone socially downhill since my boyhood days in the early 1950s.

On the latter point, for sure. Some of that can quite probably be attributed to the decline in people taking U.K. holidays, and the relative ease of being able to go abroad. With Blackpool still being primarily a holiday resort, it really needs to be able to offer things to visitors. Heritage trams I’d think should be part of that.

For all Blackpool’s issues, it’s still a lot nicer than somewhere like Rhyl or Skegness.

 

[Towers]

On the latter point, for sure. Some of that can quite probably be attributed to the decline in people taking U.K. holidays, and the relative ease of being able to go abroad. With Blackpool still being primarily a holiday resort, it really needs to be able to offer things to visitors. Heritage trams I’d think should be part of that.

For all Blackpool’s issues, it’s still a lot nicer than somewhere like Rhyl or Skegness.

I don’t know, is it that much nicer these days really? Or is it just the same but on a larger scale? You only have to look at the volume of empty, derelict former hotels on the promenade, particularly North Shore and beyond, and even the poor state of Stanley Park, with half the boating lake abandoned and the place overrun with feathery fowl and the associated sh*t they deposit everywhere. Even on a pleasant summer’s day earlier in the year, a light breeze brought grotty feathers blowing up from the lake and in through the open cafe windows; lovely. The park used to be a real jewel, a beautifully kept haven away from the manic seafront area, for a quiet minority who knew it was there. Currently it is, frankly, an absolute state. Whilst there has clearly been money going into the town it’s a desperately slow process, and I’m not at all convinced that it’s a fight which is being won currently. Blackpool’s fortune depends entirely on a tiny area along the prom, and it needs as much in the way of attractions there as possible. Another benefit of the heritage operation is that it offers a little class, in contrast to the shabby, downmarket offerings which are so widely available elsewhere.

 

[Kite159]

Is it because the heritage operation was proving to be more reliable than the regular tram system where you had no clue when the next tram will arrive and more importantly if you would be able to board it.

One thing I did notice when I visited Blackpool a few weeks ago is the number of boarded up guest houses, both on the promenade and on some of the side streets. Could be for any number of reasons why those places are no longer in business. The issue Blackpool probably has is the endless drunks arriving to get drunk for various reasons, not the sort of place you want to take a family to.

 

[Andyh82]

I must admit that I visited Blackpool for the first time in many years this year, and couldn't find out how to ride the heritage trams!

I agree with that. The average visitor wouldn’t have had a clue how to ride one but probably would have done if it was more obvious

On an average day there may have been one or two trams in use, but they’d just sail past the normal tram stops and you’d be left thinking they were a private tour. There would be little information where to stand to go and catch one.

It should have been treat like a proper attraction alongside the Pleasure Beach, Tower, Madame Tussaud’s etc with the same publicity

 

[Egg Centric]

Count me as another person unlikely to go to Blackpool again on my own volition since this news. That's two of the main three attractions gone in the last few weeks: the misc abuse at Blackpool North and (obviously much more important) the only "real" heritage tramway in the UK. Only the tower remains and it's not all that.

Key question is how many of us are there? If Blackpool these days is mostly drunks on stag dos it should be fine. But I'm not convinced from when I have been if that's correct. Seemed to be a lot of nostalgia and this move is pretty serious hole below the waterline there.

 

[Harvey B]

Count me as another person unlikely to go to Blackpool again on my own volition since this news. That's two of the main three attractions gone in the last few weeks

If the Tower is one of those Attractions, and the Heritage Trams is the other, then I'd really like to know what the 3rd Attraction is

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If the Tower is one of those Attractions, and the Heritage Trams is the other, then I'd really like to know what the 3rd Attraction is

I am surprised that you do not regard the Blackpool Illuminations as a major attraction that every year is a reason for a large tourist input and has been so for a very long period of time.

 

[Towers]

The Pleasure Beach is certainly an attraction, it frequently ranks as one of the country’s most popular, in fact. It’s not for everyone, of course, but it certainly brings in the crowds.

We’re drifting off topic a bit here though!

 

[DarloRich]

Why not wait and see what has happened, why and what the results are before going off half cock? Quoting unspecified social media posts is never a good look.

BTW - most people don't go to Blackpool to ride on old trams. Nice as they are most people go to Blackpool for other things.

PS I think this is a sad decision but I would like to know more. I suspect it is a combination of safety issues, difficulties in maintaining a heritage fleet in a modern world, depot problems, finance and staff competence.

 

[Bletchleyite]

PS I think this is a sad decision but I would like to know more. I suspect it is a combination of safety issues, difficulties in maintaining a heritage fleet in a modern world, depot problems, finance and staff competence.

Same. It seems to me there must have been a specific incident that brought it to a head now rather than them waiting for the end of the season and just not restarting next year, which would have been much less visible and controversial. Some sort of incident perhaps? Or a big falling out between two members of staff, one of whom was responsible for the heritage operation?

I heard something suggesting a heritage tram may have been believed to have damaged a set of points, but it's uncorroborated and could be made up.

I think people might understand more if they were more up front about what had happened to cause such a sudden decision rather than the very political news release they did put out.

 

[Towers]

I think people might understand more if they were more up front about what had happened to cause such a sudden decision rather than the very political news release they did put out.

This is the crux of the issue, as it so often is in these situations. Just be open and provide an honest explanation, it isn’t a complex concept!

 

[Lewisham2221]

Count me as another person unlikely to go to Blackpool again on my own volition since this news. That's two of the main three attractions gone in the last few weeks: the misc abuse at Blackpool North and (obviously much more important) the only "real" heritage tramway in the UK. Only the tower remains and it's not all that.

Key question is how many of us are there? If Blackpool these days is mostly drunks on stag dos it should be fine. But I'm not convinced from when I have been if that's correct. Seemed to be a lot of nostalgia and this move is pretty serious hole below the waterline there.

The likes of Prestatyn, Rhyl and Llandudno still seem able to attract decent enough numbers (not as many as decades ago, of course) whilst having significantly less in the way of attractions than Blackpool. I can't see the withdrawal of a handful of old trams having any sort of significant impact on visitor numbers.

 

[Harpo]

Three pages of wibble and still the only fact is the one in the thread title.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Three pages of wibble and still the only fact is the one in the thread title.

If a specific incident didn't prompt it, then this is just shockingly bad management to pull it mid-season, resulting in lots of bad publicity that wouldn't have occurred if they'd finished the season this year and just quietly not restarted it next year. One of those two things must be true!

 

[Towers]

Three pages of wibble and still the only fact is the one in the thread title.

Well we can blame Blackpool Transport for that - they appear to be the only people who understand the reasoning here, assuming there is any!

 

[Skymonster]

Transport operations such as Blackpool Heritage do not just shut down overnight because of new safety systems and procedures. Those that are imposed have deadlines for compliance, giving operators time to implement them or change. On that basis alone, it is bizarre that Blackpool Transport has suspended heritage services without completing the season that has only a few weeks remaining, and less than a week after additional pre-Christmas heritage services were announced.

The cessation of public heritage tram services on the Blackpool network (while maybe inevitable in the fullness of time) so suddenly strongly suggests something else has happened:

• An incident occurred which resulted in a reassessment of current operations and a realisation they pose an unacceptable risk or cost.
• An inspection or review (whether internal to Blackpool Transport or performed by an external by a body such as ORR) identified an unacceptable risk or shortcoming that cannot be rectified quickly.
• Something that should have been done on a repeated basis hasn’t been done, the oversight or omission has been detected, and recovering the situation cannot be done quickly.
• A deadline for doing something one-off and critical has been overlooked or missed, and its not possible to do whatever it is within a few days.
• A key person or persons with critical [safety] responsibility left the organisation without notice and cannot be replaced in the short term.
• Someone at the top of Blackpool Transport did just decided to pull the plug without notice - but with the end of the season being so close that would be heartless and [in my opinion] ill considered.

So, if we accept one of the above is more likely than the explanation already provided, then the next question is why Blackpool Transport’s announcement lacked transparency and smacked of a cover-up. Unfortunately the operator was less than transparent when it came to its announcements concerning the [again sudden] suspension of access to Rigby Road, plans for relatively short-term rectificaton of the problems and resumption of access (for both staff and public tours), and longer term plans for the site. This leads to suspicion that tram fans, heritage supporters and even the general public who visit Blackpool are not being given the whole truth - again.

Does Blackpool Transport have a right to shut down heritage? Yes, almost certainly. Does it have an obligation to fully explain its actions? Probably not. Will the shutdown impact Blackpool tourism? Maybe in a limited way, but by no means catastrophically. Could it have been done in manner that provokes less suspicion and garners more sympathy? Yes, very much so.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does Blackpool Transport have a right to shut down heritage? Yes, almost certainly. Does it have an obligation to fully explain its actions? Probably not. Will the shutdown impact Blackpool tourism? Maybe in a limited way, but by no means catastrophically. Could it have been done in manner that provokes less suspicion and garners more sympathy? Yes, very much so.

Bingo. An honest and truthful explanation about why it had to be closed immediately (and you're right, one of the things you listed will be the reason, possibly add "a massive falling out between the preservationists and management" as another possibility) would have no doubt resulted in the reaction being sadness but understanding rather than anger as seems to be the main reaction.

Sadly, it seems endemic in management across the entirety of British business that honesty with customers is not the right thing to do, and it's bizarre. See for example the LNER fare increase trial.

 

[Belfastmarty]

How often do/did the heritage trams operate in service ? I was under the impression it was only on specific days but I may not be completely abreast of the situation. The best way to see heritage trams is undoubtedly on their original lines and it will be a shame if that won't be possible. Unfortunately this situation could have been handled in a much more sensitive and transparent way which might have softened the blow marginally.

 

[Harpo]

The cessation of public heritage tram services on the Blackpool network (while maybe inevitable in the fullness of time) so suddenly strongly suggests something else has happened…………

Good quality speculation, but still just that and not exhaustive.

I’d add a further generic speculative cause of an incompatibility of operations which has been worked around but couldn’t be sustained. That covers a myriad of potential safety, operation and engineering causations.

 

[Harvey B]

I am surprised that you do not regard the Blackpool Illuminations as a major attraction that every year is a reason for a large tourist input and has been so for a very long period of time.

Ask @Egg Centric as they were the one to say it.

Count me as another person unlikely to go to Blackpool again on my own volition since this news. That's two of the main three attractions gone in the last few weeks: the misc abuse at Blackpool North and (obviously much more important) the only "real" heritage tramway in the UK. Only the tower remains and it's not all that.