Blackpool stations

[premier01]

We are planning to travel to Balckpool tomorrow by train from Preston.

We would like to travel to Blackpool Pleaseure Beach Station then come back from Blackpool North Station.

It would be appreciated if any advice is available as to whether there is a 'Blackpool Stations' ticket availabe-there doesn't seem to be online-and if not is the routing valid to use Blackpool South tickets to come back from Blackpool North without excess tickets required.

I know this would'nt include travel between the stations as obviously they are on different lines but we would walk between the stations.

 

[142094]

You are right, there is no Blackpool North stations. If you did buy a ticket to Pleasure Beach I'm almost certain you wouldn't be allowed to use it from Blackpool North, unless there is some weird rule. I cxan't find any easments that say so as well

The best bet would be some sort of Rover which is available for the area, although looking at a Lancs Day Ranger is still £18, which would be less than a single to Pleasure Beach and a single back to Preston via Blackpool North.

 

[yorkie]

In theory, a Preston to Kirkham & Wesham return + over-distance excesses would do the trick, but good luck finding someone willing & able to do that...!

 

[Aictos]

Right, below is some information on the Lancashire Day Ranger;

Prices

Adult: £18.00
Child: £9.00
Railcard*: £11.90
Family & Friends Railcard**: Adults - £11.90
Child - £3.40

*16-25, Senior and Disabled Railcard holders.
**Family & Friends Railcard holders - where conditions of railcard are met.

Time restrictions

Lancashire Day Ranger tickets are available for travel on trains timed to depart from 0845 Mondays to Fridays and any time weekends and Bank Holidays.

Where to purchase

Lancashire Day Ranger tickets can be bought at ticket offices at any staffed station or from conductors on trains when starting your journey from unstaffed stations or when the ticket office is closed.

http://www.northernrail.org/offers/dayrangers/Lancashire+Day+Ranger

 

[premier01]

You are right, there is no Blackpool North stations. If you did buy a ticket to Pleasure Beach I'm almost certain you wouldn't be allowed to use it from Blackpool North, unless there is some weird rule. I cxan't find any easments that say so as well

The best bet would be some sort of Rover which is available for the area, although looking at a Lancs Day Ranger is still £18, which would be less than a single to Pleasure Beach and a single back to Preston via Blackpool North.

It does seem strange that there is no flexibility with this-it's the same town and usually standard practice for towns and cities with more than 1 station is to offer 'stations' tickets or allow travel on any ticket e.g. Manchester Liverpool London Birmingham etc

The £18 ticket isn't really an option-could get taxi for 25% of that price between the stations and that covers all 4 passengers-will probably use the tram between the stations.

 

[OwlMan]

PlusBus is available for Blackpool (£3 adult, £1-50 child) to travel around the town. See www.plusbus.info

Peter

 

[yorkie]

Blackpool Stations used to exist ("Blackpool BR"), see this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Station_group_%28railway%29#ref_Blackpool

It appears to have been done in preparation for privatisation and is further evidence that privatisation created unnecessary red tape, was bad for passengers, was about putting profit before service quality, and done for the benefit of accountants. Just one small part of the system that was made worse for passengers, but a significant one for the OP.

There is no good reason that Burnley Stations, Blackpool Stations, Yeovil Stations, New Mills Stations, Hartford Stations should not exist. Passengers should have the right, as appropriate, to go from one station and come back to another, when timings suite, and should not be forced onto one particular line for the convenience of the many additional highly-paid accountants who are needed for the privatised railway, who all add significantly to the costs of running the railway.

Not only do we have a more expensive railway now, but we also have one that is significantly more restrictive to passengers.

 

[John @ home]

will probably use the tram between the stations.

PlusBus is available for Blackpool (£3 adult, £1-50 child) to travel around the town.

You can also buy an add-on to Blackpool Bus and Tram Zone, which allows a day's unlimited travel on Blackpool Transport's bus and tram network. This costs an extra £5 adult or £2.50 child. Railcard discounts apply.

But it doesn't solve your problem of having to choose your Blackpool terminus, because it seems that tickets are issued to the passenger's choice of BPOOL NTH BUS/TRAM or BPOOL STH BUS/TRAM!

 

[boing_uk]

Given that it is the same price from Squires Gate to Preston as it is from Blackpool North, and that Blackpool North tickets are valid to Blackpool South, just buy your tickets to Blackpool North from Preston.

 

[premier01]

You can also buy an add-on to Blackpool Bus and Tram Zone, which allows a day's unlimited travel on Blackpool Transport's bus and tram network. This costs an extra £5 adult or £2.50 child. Railcard discounts apply.

But it doesn't solve your problem of having to choose your Blackpool terminus, because it seems that tickets are issued to the passenger's choice of BPOOL NTH BUS/TRAM or BPOOL STH BUS/TRAM!

That seems good value-where is that available from then


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Given that it is the same price from Squires Gate to Preston as it is from Blackpool North, and that Blackpool North tickets are valid to Blackpool South, just buy your tickets to Blackpool North from Preston.

Ok so Blackpool North tickets are valid to Blackpool South station.

 

[John @ home]

Blackpool North tickets are valid to Blackpool South

I don't think that's right. Do you have a source for that statement, boing_uk?

That seems good value-where is that available from then

The Blackpool Bus and Tram Zone add-on is available from any station with an Anytime Day Return (SDR) or Off-Peak Day Return (CDR) fare to Blackpool. That's as far as York.

 

[premier01]

I don't think that's right. Do you have a source for that statement, boing_uk?

The Blackpool Bus and Tram Zone add-on is available from any station with an Anytime Day Return (SDR) or Off-Peak Day Return (CDR) fare to Blackpool. That's as far as York.

Ok thanks-just been advised by someone travelling on this journey that they have previously travelled with a Blackpool South ticket but missed the train from Preston-with 1 hour to wait to the next train and trains to Blackpool North every 20 mins they boarded this and were charged approximately 50p for an excess ticket-guessing over distance-so probably just try using Blackpool North ticket
depending on the times

 

[yorkie]

... and that Blackpool North tickets are valid to Blackpool South...

I agree common sense says they should be valid, and it wouldn't surprise me if many guards accept them, but I don't think that the above statement is actually correct. (Unless you can show me some sort of easement?)

Ok thanks-just been advised by someone travelling on this journey that they have previously travelled with a Blackpool South ticket but missed the train from Preston-with 1 hour to wait to the next train and trains to Blackpool North every 20 mins they boarded this and were charged approximately 50p for an excess ticket-guessing over distance-so probably just try using Blackpool North ticket
depending on the times

The problem with excesses is that different staff will do different things when it comes to issuing an excess. Some will say that, because you have a ticket on a different route it cannot be excessed, and therefore you have to buy a new ticket from the last station that the train called at which your ticket is valid. Others will consider it a zero excess as the fare is the same. Also the amount charged by excesses can vary a lot, as some staff press "Single" instead of "Return" and selecting out or rtn portions, this can roughly double the price as you then pay for it both ways.

 

[Lampshade]

It's because if it was Blackpool Stations, Northern would have to share revenue from BPS with TPE as they would from BPN, splitting the stations means Northern gets all the revenue from BPS, Lytham etc. I think Burnley is a legacy of FNW/ATN as Burnley Manchester Road was served by ATN (TPE) whereas the others were FNW, so even though they were the same price they're not group stations. New Mills is just anyone's guess, it's more expensive to Central for no apparant reason other than it being slightly quicker.

 

[yorkie]

It's because if it was Blackpool Stations, Northern would have to share revenue from BPS with TPE as they would from BPN, splitting the stations means Northern gets all the revenue from BPS, Lytham etc.

Yes, it's done for the benefit of accountants. The people who make such decisions do not care about passengers. But that doesn't answer the question. Why not abolish all the other station groups for similar reasons? You could say the same about Southend Stations, for example. In fact, there's less case for Blackpool on the basis that NT serve both stations! LENNON and ORCATS can deal with the "problems" of group stations anyway.

I think Burnley is a legacy of FNW/ATN as Burnley Manchester Road was served by ATN (TPE) whereas the others were FNW, so even though they were the same price they're not group stations. New Mills is just anyone's guess, it's more expensive to Central for no apparant reason other than it being slightly quicker.

The legacy situation under BR is that these groups existed but they were abolished shortly before privatisation, and I believe this was done for the benefit of accountants. It's certainly possible to allocate revenue to muliple operators as this is done all over the country on a constant basis. If any TOC objects to the allocations they can ask for an audit to be carried out. By abolishing some group stations, and not others, passengers travelling to/from the group stations that have been abolished are at a disadvantage just to enable some overpaid accountants to have a slightly easier time. It is, quite frankly, pathetic, unwarranted and totally unnecessary.

There is no good reason why there can't be a Blackpool Stations, Burnley Stations etc, there was before, and the same concept of group stations still exists at other locations today.

 

[boing_uk]

I don't think that's right. Do you have a source for that statement, boing_uk?

The source is experience. My season ticket is to/from Blackpool North and I travel to/from Blackpool South. Also, with my other half when leaving from Blackpool South, you can get tickets provided FROM Blackpool North when travelling from South and vice versa South tickets being valid with the gateline staff at Blackpool North.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I vaguely recall something about Blackpool North and South, but I wouldn't know where to look for it now.

 

[ashworth]

I think Burnley is a legacy of FNW/ATN as Burnley Manchester Road was served by ATN (TPE) whereas the others were FNW, so even though they were the same price they're not group stations. New Mills is just anyone's guess, it's more expensive to Central for no apparant reason other than it being slightly quicker.

New Mills is an interesting one as many Day Returns are considerably more expensive from Newtown than they are from Central. as follows.

Blackpool North is £16 from Central and £20.80 from Newtown.
Liverpool Lime Street is £13.90 from Central and £18.50 from Newtown

Chester is an interesting one at £13.90 from Central and £18 from Newtown.
This is especially strange when considering you can travel via Stockport including a walk from Central to Newtown! So buy your tickets at Central.

 

[premier01]

In theory, a Preston to Kirkham & Wesham return + over-distance excesses would do the trick, but good luck finding someone willing & able to do that...!

We will probably be travelling from Bamber Bridge so that's on the same line to South.

What is the Off Peak Day Return price from there to South and what is the price of the same ticket to North. Also would NT be obliged to sell ticket to North on the train-no ticket office available.

Probably work on the basis of getting ticket to North if that's more expensive then there should be no argument-that's a contradiction in terms however when dealing with Northern!

 

[yorkie]

We will probably be travelling from Bamber Bridge so that's on the same line to South.

What is the Off Peak Day Return price from there to South and what is the price of the same ticket to North. Also would NT be obliged to sell ticket to North on the train-no ticket office available.

Bamber Bridge - Blackpool South CDR Not available
Bamber Bridge - Blackpool South SDR £8.40

Bamber Bridge - Blackpool North CDR Not available
Bamber Bridge - Blackpool North SDR £8.40

Probably work on the basis of getting ticket to North if that's more expensive then there should be no argument-that's a contradiction in terms however when dealing with Northern!

They have to sell what you ask for. The problem is, if they think what you ask for isn't valid, they may ask you to buy another ticket to cover you from Kirkham & Wesham. I guess it depends on the guard. Based on boing_uk's experience, you are more likely to not have any hassle, as it sounds like most of them apply common sense (which is usually the case!)

It does expose what a farce it was to aboliosh the Blackpool group!

 

[premier01]

Bamber Bridge - Blackpool South CDR Not available
Bamber Bridge - Blackpool South SDR £8.40

Bamber Bridge - Blackpool North CDR Not available
Bamber Bridge - Blackpool North SDR £8.40


They have to sell what you ask for. The problem is, if they think what you ask for isn't valid, they may ask you to buy another ticket to cover you from Kirkham & Wesham. I guess it depends on the guard. Based on boing_uk's experience, you are more likely to not have any hassle, as it sounds like most of them apply common sense (which is usually the case!)

It does expose what a farce it was to aboliosh the Blackpool group!

Yes seen the link u posted on that-I'm sure I vaguely remember tickets for Preston to Blackpool BR as a child.

So is there a CDR available from Preston or just SDR and what about to North.

 

[yorkie]

There isn't a CDR from Preston either.

 

[premier01]

I don't think that's right. Do you have a source for that statement, boing_uk?

The Blackpool Bus and Tram Zone add-on is available from any station with an Anytime Day Return (SDR) or Off-Peak Day Return (CDR) fare to Blackpool. That's as far as York.

Planning on travelling from Bamber Bridge now-as not staffed station would it be available on the train.

 

[clagmonster]

I think that to do this by the book the most efficient way would be as follows:
Bamber Bridge-Kirkham & Wresham SDR £5.20

Then, excess the outward portion only to a Bamber Bridge-Blackpool Pleasure Beach SDR. The excess should be half the difference in price between the two tickets, so as the Bamber Bridge-Blackpool Pleasure Beach day return costs £8.40, the difference would be £3.20, so half the difference and hence the excess would be £1.60.

Similarly, you should excess the return portion only to a Bamber Bridge-Blackpool North SDR. The excess should again be half the difference in price between the two tickets, so as the Bamber Bridge-Blackpool North day return costs £8.40, the difference would be £3.20, so half the difference and hence the excess would be £1.60.

In total, you will end up paying £8.40, which is the same as a day return from Bamber Bridge to any of the three Blackpool stations. As you say that Bamber Bridge is unstaffed, all three tickets can be purchased from the guard.
If the guard is working through to Blackpool, he may be willing to sell you a Blackpool North day return and allow you to travel to Pleasure Beach on your outward journey.

 

[premier01]

That's great-so an over distance excess can also be requested to exces a ticket to start from a station before the original station then-as Blackpool North is before Kirkham & Wesham would it be permitted to excess the return ticket from Blackpool North.

I know that it works the other way e.g. on a Bamber Bridge to Kirkham SDR you could excess the outward journey to travel to Blackpool North and you could excess the return journey to Blackburn for example but not that way round.

So could the same ticket be excessed to start from Blackburn for example-could a Preston to Wigan SOR be excessed to travel back from Warrington on the way back-if so then that would be good.

 

[clagmonster]

That is my understanding of the rules, as supported by an extract posted by KWVR45 in another thread. See:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=518083&postcount=11

I would be interested to see how you get on though, I suspect that if there isn't a crew change a Preston you will just be sold a ticket to Blackpool North.

 

[premier01]

OK about to travel soon so will advise of results

 

[WestCoast]

You will never have any trouble getting to Blackpool South on a Blackpool North ticket. I do this all the time and the guards do not mind at all, it's sort of an 'unwritten' rule that it's valid!

Going to Blackpool North on a South ticket can be a little more tricky, the guards tend to be fine with it. It's just it can cause some hassle at the Blackpool North barriers and with the staff there! :roll:

 

[northwichcat]

It's because if it was Blackpool Stations, Northern would have to share revenue from BPS with TPE as they would from BPN, splitting the stations means Northern gets all the revenue from BPS etc.

I think Burnley is a legacy of FNW/ATN as Burnley Manchester Road was served by ATN (TPE) whereas the others were FNW, so even though they were the same price they're not group stations. New Mills is just anyone's guess, it's more expensive to Central for no apparant reason other than it being slightly quicker.

Both Blackpool and Burnley issue would originate to the RRNW and RRNE services being in separate franchises. Blackpool North to Bradford via Burnley was RRNE, while all services in to Blackpool South were RRNW.

There isn't any logic in this as Huddersfield and Stalybridge have Manchester STNS fares despite having one operator for Manchester Victoria services and another for Piccadilly services.

 

[premier01]

I think that to do this by the book the most efficient way would be as follows:
Bamber Bridge-Kirkham & Wresham SDR £5.20

Then, excess the outward portion only to a Bamber Bridge-Blackpool Pleasure Beach SDR. The excess should be half the difference in price between the two tickets, so as the Bamber Bridge-Blackpool Pleasure Beach day return costs £8.40, the difference would be £3.20, so half the difference and hence the excess would be £1.60.

Similarly, you should excess the return portion only to a Bamber Bridge-Blackpool North SDR. The excess should again be half the difference in price between the two tickets, so as the Bamber Bridge-Blackpool North day return costs £8.40, the difference would be £3.20, so half the difference and hence the excess would be £1.60.

In total, you will end up paying £8.40, which is the same as a day return from Bamber Bridge to any of the three Blackpool stations. As you say that Bamber Bridge is unstaffed, all three tickets can be purchased from the guard.
If the guard is working through to Blackpool, he may be willing to sell you a Blackpool North day return and allow you to travel to Pleasure Beach on your outward journey.

I went for the Blackpool North ticket option-requested Northern Duo on train at Bamber Bridge-not available to any Blackpool Station so got 2 SDR's to Blackpool North.

As the conductor probably expected us to get off at Preston to change to the Blackpool North train this wasn't questioned at any point.

There was a staff change at Preston and we met the others who boarde at Preston with Blackpool North tickets-they were all checked and accepted without problem.

It would still be good to get the official line on this as I always like to know I am in the right before challenging any rules but guess it's an unwritten rule on this route.