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Bletchley Derailment

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DarloRich

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I am sure the signal sighting committee will be able to deal with this one quite quickly!

using that platform as i do everyday i dont think there is an issue, but you never know and i am not an expert
 
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TDK

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As far as I am concerned, I trust a Pilot as much as a Train Driver, even more a Train Driver as they do their job without any assistance, unless they have a Traction Inspector or Pilotman.


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A traction expector or a pilotman do not assist a driver with their duties, a traction inspector will be usually assessing the driver and a pilotman is used when SLW or working over a single line with pilotman is implimented. A pilot has a co-pilot where a train driver has just themselves as for automation - aircraft have a lot more automation than trains and can virtually fly themselves however a pilot is a nescessity as proved with the Husdon River case - the only automation a train has is AWS/ATP/TPWS and these are just safety systems and not driver aids
 

kettle8632

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Have we considered the possibility that the signal cleared to green with the route indication ...

... at the exact moment that the driver's view of the route indication was obscured by the canopy of Platform 4?

Just a thought.


Doesn't an approach signal only show a caution aspect when the route is set to use the points it's protecting? Again, is this another way to protect over speeding?
 

A-driver

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Doesn't an approach signal only show a caution aspect when the route is set to use the points it's protecting? Again, is this another way to protect over speeding?

No. Once cleared it can show green straight away. Some (mainly flashing junctions) will initially clear to a single yellow but then step up to double yellow on approach.

For example Battersea park junction is approach controlled -45mph with main aspect, 20 with a route 1 indicator. Is held red until about 100meters from the signal then,as long as the next sections are clear, goes straight to green with a route 1.
 

notadriver

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On board monitoring equipment installed by depot engineers some time ago, covered in Rail once and then forgoten about...

How does the equipment show the permitted speed and supervise this ? Usually needs beacons of some kind on the track.
 

starrymarkb

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Modern airliners warn the crew if they are doing something wrong, and many even prevent the crew from doing something wrong! Especially stuff like exceeding speed limits with flap down, or flying so slowly that a stall is possible.

This is the case in all Airbus aircraft since the A320. In "Normal Law" you can't pitch beyond 30 degrees up, can't bank more then 67 degrees and if you fly too slowly then Full Thrust will be commanded. (you can still do quite a lot in Normal Law as the systems intervene just before things go too far to be dangerous, Airbus displays where they twist and turn around the sky are conducted in Normal Law)

The Automated systems helped with the Hudson River, the autotrim allowed the pilots to concentrate on finding a landing site.

However in the case of AF447, with no reliable airspeed indication the anti stall protection was deactivated, the A330 essentially reverted to "Alternative Law" (aka "Boeing mode") and the pilots managed to stall it by not following procedures. A Bus Driver I know had a lesson on that in the simulator recently, if he followed the procedure (pitch to [X] degrees - power to [YY]% - aircraft will settle at a known safe speed) then all well and good, if he pulled back on the stick as they did the aircraft stalled, once stalled the aircraft was unrecoverable! He also said the Turbulence (recreated from the Flight Recorder data) was horrific!
 
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CosherB

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This is the case in all Airbus aircraft since the A320. In "Normal Law" you can't pitch beyond 30 degrees up, can't bank more then 67 degrees and if you fly too slowly then Full Thrust will be commanded. (you can still do quite a lot in Normal Law as the systems intervene just before things go too far to be dangerous, Airbus displays where they twist and turn around the sky are conducted in Normal Law)

The Automated systems helped with the Hudson River, the autotrim allowed the pilots to concentrate on finding a landing site.

However in the case of AF447, with no reliable airspeed indication the anti stall protection was deactivated, the A330 essentially reverted to "Alternative Law" (aka "Boeing mode") and the pilots managed to stall it by not following procedures. A Bus Driver I know had a lesson on that in the simulator recently, if he followed the procedure (pitch to [X] degrees - power to [YY]% - aircraft will settle at a known safe speed) then all well and good, if he pulled back on the stick as they did the aircraft stalled, once stalled the aircraft was unrecoverable! He also said the Turbulence (recreated from the Flight Recorder data) was horrific!

Err, couple of points there.

1) There is no direct relationship with pitch angle (deck angle) and stall. 30 degrees pitch up is meaningless regarding stall - an aeroplane can stall way below that, or way above it. It's excessive angle of attack (angle between wing chord line and relative airflow) that causes a stall, and that is not neccessarily related to either speed or deck angle.

2) In AF477, the crew had, apart from a brief period at the start of the upset, full and accurate cockit indications of all parameters, including pitch angle, air speed, and power. It stalled and remained stalled all the way down to the sea because a very inexperienced P2 held his sidestick fully back! Read the report (it was released on PPRuNe). It makes interesting reading! The aeroplane could have been un-stalled and flown safely away at any point until there was insufficient height to recover (perhaps the last few thousand feet) had the sidestick been pushed forward to un-stall the wing, then normal attitude restored.

3) It is standard proceedure on any aeroplane, from a Tiger Moth to a B747, if airspeed indications are lost to set cruise power and attitude. The speed will then look after itself.
 
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