Blyth & Fleetwood potential reopenings?

[DH1Commuter]

The Ashington/Blyth project is, i believe, at GRIP3 at present and has the backing of central and local govt, as well as having existing tracks/deprived towns to major city/good business case etc going for it. Personally, I am mystified that Labour, even in their years of spending big, never funded this one despite it having had a good business case at the time, and the Tories must be laughing their socks off at having a tangible 'thing' to give (at low cost) to the newly-blue Blyth Valley constituency, whilst being able to point out, repeatedly (as they have), that Labour had over a decade and failed to action this.

Fleetwood, I suspect, probably has a worse business case than Skipton-Colne, Leamside or Fawley-Southampton, and I doubt will be built.

 

[class26]

All the work appears to have been on Newsham, or somewhere near it, rather than the Blyth branch per se. Given the manifesto commitment to scrap the Fixed Terms Parliament Act, I presume that this Parliament won't run all the way to late 2024, so politically these reopenings need to either be done by then, or with very tangible/visible progress by then for a major political payoff - all of which suggests the Blyth-Ashington main, rather than the branch.

There was a very interesting article in February 2018 Modern Railways on the Blyth line (and several other possible reopenings.) It listed a few options but for Blyth there would be a station called Blyth Bebside plus a station at Newsham. The line would go north to Ashington but probably terminate at Woodhorn with an option later to extend to Newbiggin - by - the - sea on a short new line of approx 0.75 miles where the old track bed is protected. The aim is to have a journey time of 30 minutes Ashington - Newcastle but at present it looks as though it would be 38 minutes. Apparently about one mile of single track would be re doubled near Newsham.

One interesting point worth relating is that Network Rail originally had suggested replacing most of the track until it was pointed out to them that as heavy freight trains use the line at present a 2 car DMU is not going to be a problem so costs have been trimmed. i wonder how many more re openings flounder due to Network Rails gold platting?

 

[Djgr]

A question I would ask,before all the chat about splitting trains....Is there an actual demand for this line in terms of passengers?...With todays very high infrastructure costs,I cannot see an economic case....Can I remind you all that you will be able to go from Fleetwood,Cleveleys by tram to Blackpool North by 2023 or so.!

Great fun but not a speedy journey

 

[Djgr]

Fleetwood will be the bigger job, but "is likely to be" doesn't amount to much. Both lines have been on the radar for some years IIRC.

And isn't BoJo going to build a bridge for Scotland to Northern Ireland first?

 

[swt_passenger]

There’s a good summary on Northumberland Council’s website, one section proposes including stations in two phases (although ambitious dates?):

November 2019 - Submission of Final Bid for Transforming Cities Fund
November 2019 - Completion of Outline Business Case
2022/23 - Completion of Phase 1 including stations at Ashington, Bedlington, South Newsham and Northumberland Park
2024 - Completion of Phase 2 including stations at Bebside and Seaton Delaval

from here: https://www.northumberland.gov.uk/Highways/Transport-policy/northumberland-line.aspx

AIUI, from previous reading online, the local user group SENRUG would apparently prefer the Blyth stations to be just Bebside, and “Newsham for Blyth”, the latter’s suffix being removable if the Blyth branch ever reopened. I think the naming assumptions keep changing, the website seems different to what a Modern Railways described. But it’s minor details in terms of the whole project...

 

[paul1609]

The only feasible location for terminus is around Wyre Dock location,and this might require the demolition of a newly built pub...Any further would require removal of car park of the "FREEPORT" Any further not possible without large costs ...

Cant help but think as Fleetwood is a loop anyway you'd be better off building a spur to the tramway and opening it as an extension to the Blackpool Tram system, Poulton via Fleetwood.

 

[ian1944]

Can see thousands of tourists flocking to Fleetwood for the highlight of the view of the Nuclear Power Station across the mud. .

And the Fisherman's Friend factory.

 

[paul1609]

And the Fisherman's Friend factory.

In the FA Cup I had to drive to Fleetwood FC put the postcode in the toyotas sat nav, up the M6 etc and arrived outside what appeared to be a working mens club. Ah I thought this cant be right. Any way couldn't find the ground or any where to park so driving around found the Fishermans Friend Factory. Eventually found somewhere to park near the tramway and asked in a chip shop where the ground was. Whilst in the chips hop somebody had turned the floodlights on and lo and behold the ground is actually behind the social club so toyota was right. It must be the most inconspicuous football league club there is.

 

[stj]

Cant help but think as Fleetwood is a loop anyway you'd be better off building a spur to the tramway and opening it as an extension to the Blackpool Tram system, Poulton via Fleetwood.

This was talked about years ago,but would have meant sharing the line between Poulton and Blackpool North with BR services and there was regular freight to the now closed ICI works at Thornton.If Blackpool Central had stayed open and North closed it would have been viable.

 

[stj]

In the FA Cup I had to drive to Fleetwood FC put the postcode in the toyotas sat nav, up the M6 etc and arrived outside what appeared to be a working mens club. Ah I thought this cant be right. Any way couldn't find the ground or any where to park so driving around found the Fishermans Friend Factory. Eventually found somewhere to park near the tramway and asked in a chip shop where the ground was. Whilst in the chips hop somebody had turned the floodlights on and lo and behold the ground is actually behind the social club so toyota was right. It must be the most inconspicuous football league club there is.

Its hard to believe there is an L1 club in the town.Probably one of the few towns in the EFL without a Railway Stn.

 

[swanhill41]

Its hard to believe there is an L1 club in the town.Probably one of the few towns in the EFL without a Railway Stn.

Ground capacity around 4.0k,av attendance just under 3.0k....No need for a railway therefore.?

 

[swanhill41]

In the FA Cup I had to drive to Fleetwood FC put the postcode in the toyotas sat nav, up the M6 etc and arrived outside what appeared to be a working mens club. Ah I thought this cant be right. Any way couldn't find the ground or any where to park so driving around found the Fishermans Friend Factory. Eventually found somewhere to park near the tramway and asked in a chip shop where the ground was. Whilst in the chips hop somebody had turned the floodlights on and lo and behold the ground is actually behind the social club so toyota was right. It must be the most inconspicuous football league club there is.

Main entrance via the new stand is a lot more obvious to see,but is not obvious for access by car...Off subject,the training ground near the Burn Naze station is to kill for.!..Blackpool down the road don't have one!
.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Cant help but think as Fleetwood is a loop anyway you'd be better off building a spur to the tramway and opening it as an extension to the Blackpool Tram system, Poulton via Fleetwood.

I'm sure I read somewhere that this sort of thing was one of the current proposals. The trams then surving Burn Naze,Cleveleys etc. Then there was some idea about using the Blackpool South line to link the trams to Lytham.

 

[Bald Rick]

Fleetwood, I suspect, probably has a worse business case than Skipton-Colne, Leamside or Fawley-Southampton, and I doubt will be built.

Of those you quote, Skipton Colne will have the worst business case. It needs much more work for much less benefit.

One interesting point worth relating is that Network Rail originally had suggested replacing most of the track until it was pointed out to them that as heavy freight trains use the line at present a 2 car DMU is not going to be a problem so costs have been trimmed. i wonder how many more re openings flounder due to Network Rails gold platting?

This is a common misunderstanding. The standards for freight only track are rather lower than for those carrying passenger services. Track with a handful of freights (half of them empty) trundling around at little more than cycling pace can be, and is, quite rough. Certainly not of the condition needed for, say, an hourly passenger service at up to 60mph.

Besides, replacing track will be one of the easier things to do on this line.

 

[Glenn1969]

Skipton- Colne is a missing link that would provide an alternative route from Bradford/Leeds to East Lancs.

I agree about Blyth being more likely to be built than Fleetwood

 

[Meerkat]

The Blyth line seems to involve a LOT of new level crossings, including several A-roads and in tight urban areas. Is that not a big problem these days?
Where I presume Bebside station would go would be right next to an A road level crossing only about 40m from the roundabout junction for the main dual carriageway.
Bedlington station is also right next to a level crossing on the main road through town with multiple neighbouring road junctions.

 

[Meerkat]

Skipton- Colne is a missing link that would provide an alternative route from Bradford/Leeds to East Lancs.

I agree about Blyth being more likely to be built than Fleetwood

how can it be a missing link and an alternative?

 

[Glenn1969]

It would provide an alternative Link from Leeds/Bradford to Burnley/Blackburn to the existing route via Hebden Bridge and Copy Pit if it was built

 

[class26]

The Blyth line seems to involve a LOT of new level crossings, including several A-roads and in tight urban areas. Is that not a big problem these days?
Where I presume Bebside station would go would be right next to an A road level crossing only about 40m from the roundabout junction for the main dual carriageway.
Bedlington station is also right next to a level crossing on the main road through town with multiple neighbouring road junctions.

Look out the Modern Railways article (Feb 2018) They speak of bridges replacing most lf the crossings.

 

[Bald Rick]

It would provide an alternative Link from Leeds/Bradford to Burnley/Blackburn to the existing route via Hebden Bridge and Copy Pit if it was built

But... so what?

(Rhetorical question, this had been done to death on other threads).

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Reinstate the curves at Burscough and you can do Southport to Fleetwood (and Blackpool ) or Ormskirk or Colne.

 

[Bald Rick]

My tenner is on Blyth and Fleetwood in that order - hence the thread title !

 

[Bald Rick]

The Ashington/Blyth project is, i believe, at GRIP3 at present and has the backing of central and local govt, as well as having existing tracks/deprived towns to major city/good business case etc going for it.

As an aside, I’m not sure it’s at GRIP3 yet.

 

[andyj158]

Knott end to fleetwood is 11 miles unless you use the ferry, which cannot be relied on at low tide.

Yeah, it ran aground a few times last summer whilst I was on it.

People from Knott End use Poulton and would do in the future as easier to get to

Agreed, but if Fleetwood had decent free park and ride facilities I reckon a few would travel the few extra miles to Fleetwood. Poulton doesn't have much parking (that I can think of).

 

[Meerkat]

Look out the Modern Railways article (Feb 2018) They speak of bridges replacing most lf the crossings.

Really?! I count 11 crossings on public roads, all in close proximity to buildings (with the busiest roads being too constricted to take the road over easily). And a £100m budget?

 

[Meerkat]

For Fleetwood wouldn’t it be easier to extend the tram - that way you could use the tram alignment into Fleetwood and avoid the Poulton junction issue?

 

[158756]

The Blyth line seems to involve a LOT of new level crossings, including several A-roads and in tight urban areas. Is that not a big problem these days?
Where I presume Bebside station would go would be right next to an A road level crossing only about 40m from the roundabout junction for the main dual carriageway.
Bedlington station is also right next to a level crossing on the main road through town with multiple neighbouring road junctions.

The line is still open for freight, so the level crossings won't be new, though they might need upgrading. No doubt someone will now do a risk assessment and decide they need to spend hundreds of millions and demolish swathes of Northumberland to avoid the totally unprecedented situation of the occasional passenger train using a level crossing.

 

[Killingworth]

As an aside, I’m not sure it’s at GRIP3 yet.

Northumberland Line: Passenger Service Reintroduction passed GRIP 2 awaiting GRIP3 as at Autumn 2019; https://assets.publishing.service.g...840709/rail-network-enhancements-pipeline.pdf

It's not a quick process! Hope Valley has passed GRIP 3 after the first of three public consultations in 2014 and the best estimate of completion is 2023.

 

[edwin_m]

Northumberland Line: Passenger Service Reintroduction passed GRIP 2 awaiting GRIP3 as at Autumn 2019; https://assets.publishing.service.g...840709/rail-network-enhancements-pipeline.pdf

It's not a quick process! Hope Valley has passed GRIP 3 after the first of three public consultations in 2014 and the best estimate of completion is 2023.

Can't speak for this specific case, but the main reason for the delay is usually politicians debating each stage and trying to find the funding for the next one. If central government is unequivocally behind a scheme then it ought to move a lot faster.

There's not exactly a glut of schemes that have had that sort of support to prove my point, Todmorden Curve being the only one I can think of that sort of qualifies. According to Wikipedia it was declared as a priority by the council in 2010, got a go-ahead from central government in 2011 and was ready for use in 2014 (although service didn't start for another year due to lack of available trains).

Another significant issue is whether TWAO is required. I don't think it was for Todmorden but it probably would be for Ashington and Fleetwood.

 

[a_c_skinner]

It's not a quick process!

No, the whole process is designed to prevent change. We are entering an age where we need to have a totally different attitude to low carbon public transport where the central processes actively facilitate change.
That said the Fleetwood line doesn't look immediately attractive! Even as a tram line (and it would join on nicely at the north end) it would leave a very oddly shaped network. Fleetwood will be best served by trams to Blackpool North. Skipton to Colne looks a much more ambitious but useful plan. The Blythe and Tyne is of course a perfect example of the processes simply stalling a scheme that should be easy and not especially costly serving a decently sized area with significant travel to Newcastle.
TWAOs are not a separate problem, they are part of the same problem, a system designed to stop or slow changes at every step.