Boarding arrangements at Euston

[87015]

Breaks dont work like that, some turns don't facilitate any time away from the train bar its turnround time.

Thats an issue that the catering staff have signed up for though in the T&Cs for diagramming - whatever their equivalent of DRI is called - so thats been accepted by them. No doubt part of some of those rather large pay rises VWC have given.

 

[ukrob]

And there was me thinking that Virgin were such an amazing employer

 

[Mr Spock]

And not everyone with difficulty walking and/or other mobility issues wants to make use of assistance services and finds them entirely unhelpful.

Thats their decision and I did not say that they had to use it just that it was available.

 

[krisk]

Correct, that is the agreement as it keeps everything moving even when it all goes wrong.

There is just pure impatience sometimes

 

[Nym]

Thats their decision and I did not say that they had to use it just that it was available.

So the question comes then, what about the passenger, who can't walk properly, doesn't want to book advance tickets so doesn't realise they can reserve a seat, or can't reliably know when they want to travel. Comes into Euston station, not knowing their platform, standing next to 10ish on the concourse waiting patiently, doesn't want to book or use mobility assistance because they're stuborn and don't let their disabilities affect them while they're out and about, and is now tentatively looking at the boards for the 18:57 to MAN on Friday, travelling alone in an unfermillar station.

6 mins before departure, the platform is announed, it's on Platform 16, by the time the passenger has walked to this platform after being pushed around by the crowd of pax rushing the platform, he cannot get there in good time due to the stampede and either ends up boarding at the London end and needing to walk down the train to Standard, causing significant pain and resulting in proberbly not being able to find a seat and having to stand for a prolonged period of time, due to not being able to get a seat and not looking disabled (in spite of receiving higher level DLA for mobility), or alternatively ends up just missing this service and having to again rush, to platform 2 for the 19:00 service that he also misses, eventually, after speaking to a member of gateline staff and receiving no end of attitude because, "You don't look disabled so I'm not telling you where it bloddy well is!" and then being told his perfectly valid ticket is not valid for some insane reason, having this confiscated and spending up to another £80 on a ticket, by the time he's managed to walk to the ticket office and back, has missed the 19:20, finally, a member of London Midland staff takes pitty on the poor 17 year old, informing him of what platform the 19:40 service is on, showing him around the barriers and taking him to his seat, he thanks the member of London Midland staff and wonders why Virgin staff can't be this helpful, arriving in Manchester an hour late, unable to call ahead where his partner and mother are very worried for the next hour while they wait, as it's impossible to speak to anyone at Euston to find out what's happening...

So yeah, one should have the platforms announced in such a way that doesn't cause stampedes!

 

[Mr Spock]

So the question comes then, what about the passenger, who can't walk properly, doesn't want to book advance tickets so doesn't realise they can reserve a seat, or can't reliably know when they want to travel. Comes into Euston station, not knowing their platform, standing next to 10ish on the concourse waiting patiently, doesn't want to book or use mobility assistance because they're stuborn and don't let their disabilities affect them while they're out and about, and is now tentatively looking at the boards for the 18:57 to MAN on Friday, travelling alone in an unfermillar station.

6 mins before departure, the platform is announed, it's on Platform 16, by the time the passenger has walked to this platform after being pushed around by the crowd of pax rushing the platform, he cannot get there in good time due to the stampede and either ends up boarding at the London end and needing to walk down the train to Standard, causing significant pain and resulting in proberbly not being able to find a seat and having to stand for a prolonged period of time, due to not being able to get a seat and not looking disabled (in spite of receiving higher level DLA for mobility), or alternatively ends up just missing this service and having to again rush, to platform 2 for the 19:00 service that he also misses, eventually, after speaking to a member of gateline staff and receiving no end of attitude because, "You don't look disabled so I'm not telling you where it bloddy well is!" and then being told his perfectly valid ticket is not valid for some insane reason, having this confiscated and spending up to another £80 on a ticket, by the time he's managed to walk to the ticket office and back, has missed the 19:20, finally, a member of London Midland staff takes pitty on the poor 17 year old, informing him of what platform the 19:40 service is on, showing him around the barriers and taking him to his seat, he thanks the member of London Midland staff and wonders why Virgin staff can't be this helpful, arriving in Manchester an hour late, unable to call ahead where his partner and mother are very worried for the next hour while they wait, as it's impossible to speak to anyone at Euston to find out what's happening...

So yeah, one should have the platforms announced in such a way that doesn't cause stampedes!

Goodness don't you go on at times and what a wonderful tale of woe (ha ha) at the same time. Think you need to get a reality check.

By the way I have never said anything about the platform being displayed just that a service is available.

 

[Nym]

Goodness don't you go on at times and what a wonderful tale of woe (ha ha) at the same time. Think you need to get a reality check.

By the way I have never said anything about the platform being displayed just that a service is available.

That 'tale of woe' is based in fact dear...

 

[krisk]

If I found a person in that position on my train I'd get them sat in first.

 

[Geezertronic]

So the question comes then, what about the passenger, who can't walk properly, doesn't want to book advance tickets so doesn't realise they can reserve a seat, or can't reliably know when they want to travel. Comes into Euston station, not knowing their platform, standing next to 10ish on the concourse waiting patiently, doesn't want to book or use mobility assistance because they're stuborn and don't let their disabilities affect them while they're out and about, and is now tentatively looking at the boards for the 18:57 to MAN on Friday, travelling alone in an unfermillar station.

6 mins before departure, the platform is announed, it's on Platform 16, by the time the passenger has walked to this platform after being pushed around by the crowd of pax rushing the platform, he cannot get there in good time due to the stampede and either ends up boarding at the London end and needing to walk down the train to Standard, causing significant pain and resulting in proberbly not being able to find a seat and having to stand for a prolonged period of time, due to not being able to get a seat and not looking disabled (in spite of receiving higher level DLA for mobility), or alternatively ends up just missing this service and having to again rush, to platform 2 for the 19:00 service that he also misses, eventually, after speaking to a member of gateline staff and receiving no end of attitude because, "You don't look disabled so I'm not telling you where it bloddy well is!" and then being told his perfectly valid ticket is not valid for some insane reason, having this confiscated and spending up to another £80 on a ticket, by the time he's managed to walk to the ticket office and back, has missed the 19:20, finally, a member of London Midland staff takes pitty on the poor 17 year old, informing him of what platform the 19:40 service is on, showing him around the barriers and taking him to his seat, he thanks the member of London Midland staff and wonders why Virgin staff can't be this helpful, arriving in Manchester an hour late, unable to call ahead where his partner and mother are very worried for the next hour while they wait, as it's impossible to speak to anyone at Euston to find out what's happening...

So yeah, one should have the platforms announced in such a way that doesn't cause stampedes!

So one experience like this means that the entire process needs to change? Hmmm....

 

[Mr Spock]

So one experience like this means that the entire process needs to change? Hmmm....

Of course it does - Nym has said so.

 

[Starmill]

Hmm. Does a different amount of servicing take place at Manchester Pic than at Euston? I have only ever ONCE seen a train advertised here without a platform (and it was going to Hazel Grove, back when that tree fell down, so what the hell). It is common for a train not to be ready for boarding, but in the platform, why on earth should passengers not locate their door and wait ON THE PLATFORM. If the doors are locked or the guard asks people to wait before they board, they generally don't get on! I was totally not expecting Euston's airport-style boarding system when I first visited it a few months ago. Why should platforms be no-go areas until the train is ready for boarding? I can understand specific issues with Euston's loathsome edifice though. The Euston concourse is not a pleasant place to get a stiff neck and 8-10 mins is not sufficient to comfortably locate a platform walk to it and down the ramp in an unfamiliar environment and walk down past ten coaches to your door, even though really, it should be.

 

[phil281]

Some of the arguements I've seen on here are really pretty poor.

I cannot see why it is so important to wait on the platform, why why why do people panic so much at stations? If you are not so quick on your feet book assistance, if you are able bodied then book a reservation (which you can do 2 hours before departure) what is the problem?

Like I said earlier there are many good reasons why platforms are hidden until 15, 20 minutes before departure, if you are say on platform 2 and then your train gets moved across the station to 16 or somthing like that surely that is more of an issue if you have bags etc and I bet some of you moaning about them being hidden until they are ready would be the 1st to moan

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Some of the arguements I've seen on here are really pretty poor.

I cannot see why it is so important to wait on the platform, why why why do people panic so much at stations? If you are not so quick on your feet book assistance, if you are able bodied then book a reservation (which you can do 2 hours before departure) what is the problem?

Like I said earlier there are many good reasons why platforms are hidden until 15, 20 minutes before departure, if you are say on platform 2 and then your train gets moved across the station to 16 or somthing like that surely that is more of an issue if you have bags etc and I bet some of you moaning about them being hidden until they are ready would be the 1st to moan

It's not waiting on the platform that's important - it's being able to wait sufficiently near your carriage that you can comfortably get to your seat during the interval between being able to find out where your train is and the train actually leaving. At just about every other station on the network being able to wait on the platform is the rather obvious way that's achieved.

If platforms really were announced 15-20 minutes before departure, I don't think it would be a problem at Euston, but in my experience it's often more like 10 minutes. In my view that's not sufficient given the long walk from the concourse to the train. There's also a problem that the concourse is not a comfortable area to wait (not least because of the lack of seats).

Having late changes to the platform due to trains being swapped is the only good argument I've seen for the current arrangements. The question I'd ask there would then be: How often does that happen in practice?

As for people panicking - remember there are people who don't travel often, and Euston, being primarily a long-distance station, will have a higher proportion than most stations of people who don't use that station regularly enough to know their way round it. Reserving 2 hours in advance is not often practical - you have to actually be at a staffed station that can do Virgin reservations, and have time to queue.

 

[phil281]

It's not waiting on the platform that's important - it's being able to wait sufficiently near your carriage that you can comfortably get to your seat during the interval between being able to find out where your train is and the train actually leaving. At just about every other station on the network being able to wait on the platform is the rather obvious way that's achieved.

If platforms really were announced 15-20 minutes before departure, I don't think it would be a problem at Euston, but in my experience it's often more like 10 minutes. In my view that's not sufficient given the long walk from the concourse to the train. There's also a problem that the concourse is not a comfortable area to wait (not least because of the lack of seats).

Having late changes to the platform due to trains being swapped is the only good argument I've seen for the current arrangements. The question I'd ask there would then be: How often does that happen in practice?

As for people panicking - remember there are people who don't travel often, and Euston, being primarily a long-distance station, will have a higher proportion than most stations of people who don't use that station regularly enough to know their way round it. Reserving 2 hours in advance is not often practical - you have to actually be at a staffed station that can do Virgin reservations, and have time to queue.

To answer your question often 50 to 60 times a day! I see your point about boarding late but we do try to most of the time to board 20 minutes before departure which is plenty of time. As regards the concourse, space is limited due to the design of the station not being suitable for the amount of people that travel these days. All major London Termini (Waterloo, Kings X, St Pancras, Paddington, Victoria etc) keep there platforms hidden until trains are ready to board due to the operational characteristics of these stations. You have one failure, one cancelation etc all the booked platforms go out the window.

 

[krisk]

Around half an hour is the usual Euston turnrounds so if you were allowed to wait on the platform then how long before departure would ticket checking need to take place? Then a platform swap means those waiting at the top end would have to walk all the way back down onto the concourse and back up to the top of the platform.

As soon as a train came in people would just pile on so options for cleaning and downloading reservations would be reduced.

Just wait till its ready

 

[campcrusader]

From a purely passenger point of view, I am always frustrated with the lateness (sometimes less than 10 mins, in my experience) of the Liverpool train announcements, particularly as they are hourly and usually very busy, as the dash and scrum to get on board can be quite horrendous. The Manchester trains, of which there are three an hour, always seem to be called with much more boarding time.

 

[krisk]

Sounds unfortunate, twenty mins is the usual boarding time

 

[calc7]

From a purely passenger point of view, I am always frustrated with the lateness (sometimes less than 10 mins, in my experience) of the Liverpool train announcements, particularly as they are hourly and usually very busy, as the dash and scrum to get on board can be quite horrendous. The Manchester trains, of which there are three an hour, always seem to be called with much more boarding time.

That's quite interesting, as I am led to believe that the xx48 from Liverpool which arrives into Euston in 2h7m at xx55 (or thereabouts) actually forms the xx07 an hour later and as such is the "reserve" set sat about in Euston!

So for 12 minutes each hour, you will have two ex-Liverpool Pendos sat about!

 

[phil281]

That's quite interesting, as I am led to believe that the xx48 from Liverpool which arrives into Euston in 2h7m at xx55 (or thereabouts) actually forms the xx07 an hour later and as such is the "reserve" set sat about in Euston!

So for 12 minutes each hour, you will have two ex-Liverpool Pendos sat about!

Yes but if Virgin are a Pendo short which happens a lot, then everything gets stepped up, so it can pulled from that diagram

 

[ukrob]

That's quite interesting, as I am led to believe that the xx48 from Liverpool which arrives into Euston in 2h7m at xx55 (or thereabouts) actually forms the xx07 an hour later and as such is the "reserve" set sat about in Euston!

So for 12 minutes each hour, you will have two ex-Liverpool Pendos sat about!

And it is often the Liverpool service that is announced five minutes before departure.

 

[tamesidedepot]

From personal experience on the MAN & EBW services platforms are not announced until the previous departure has left (except the extras that is) therefore if one departure is late, boarding for the subsequent departure is also later. Presumably this is to allow gate staff to move from one platform to another.
I've only ever had one totally manic rush at EUS which was when the 1920 to MAN was announced at 1913! Departed on time, and thankfully I'd reserved a seat.

Evenings, especially late on and on Sundays tend to be open boarding with all gates wide open, again from my own experiences.

 

[neilmc]

Euston's an utterly manic place, you see hordes of people swarming up and down the concourse as trains are announced with hundreds more with their eyes fixed on the departure boards like it's a cup final penalty shoot-out.

What we need is another station with more trains for the north-west as the present structure isn't fit for purpose, and preferably a brand new line to run them on ... oh, hang about ...

 

[6Gman]

Sounds unfortunate, twenty mins is the usual boarding time

I've travelled out of Euston six times so far this year - on none of these occasions was the platform announced 20 minutes before departure. I'd estimate an average of 10-12! [Must confess that I cheated twice by going to the North Wales train before the platform was announced! - the fact that it's a Voyager is something of a clue ]

 

[Jonfun]

I'll be honest, Euston does seem a bit daft. Okay, there's no need to open doors etc until say ten, fifteen minutes before departure to allow for cleaning etc, but why can't we wait on the platform like at most other stations? I go to London from Manchester and it's much easier there - no last minute dashes or closed platforms, you arrive, book your ticket, get a coffee, go to the platform that's up on the screens then they open the doors and you get on.

Why so much more faff at Euston?

 

[Starmill]

I'll be honest, Euston does seem a bit daft. Okay, there's no need to open doors etc until say ten, fifteen minutes before departure to allow for cleaning etc, but why can't we wait on the platform like at most other stations? I go to London from Manchester and it's much easier there - no last minute dashes or closed platforms, you arrive, book your ticket, get a coffee, go to the platform that's up on the screens then they open the doors and you get on.

Why so much more faff at Euston?

My sentiments EXACTLY! Perhaps I didn't make that clear in my post.

 

[krisk]

1. People wouldn't wait they would just jump on so it would need staff to police it
2. Set swaps happen last minute so your at the top of the platform to then be told its been moved
3. When do you open the platform up so people can wait. How long?

It works as it is. The train is ready, your tickets are checked. That's it.

 

[jopsuk]

the difference with Euston is the sheer distance. At the other London terminals, where the platforms are usually not announced until the train is ready, the main waiting area is right at the end of the platforms (or to one side, at Kings Cross). Apart from a handful of out-of-the-way platforms at Paddington and the likes of 0 at Kings Cross, you can generally hang around near the right part of the gate line (if you know)- say at Waterloo, or Liverpool Street - and you can see the trains.

 

[Jonfun]

1. People wouldn't wait they would just jump on so it would need staff to police it
2. Set swaps happen last minute so your at the top of the platform to then be told its been moved
3. When do you open the platform up so people can wait. How long?

It works as it is. The train is ready, your tickets are checked. That's it.

Point 1 - I don't see what the problem is with passengers being on anyway? Staff can still go through emptying bins and collecting litter, there aren't any reservation labels to put out because it's done electronically. But if it's a big issue just put on the platform and train door boards "**NOT IN SERVICE**" or similar like they do elsewhere, until it's ready to board.

2 - How often though do they happen in comparison to the number of departures? More effective communication between VT and the NR Station Control Team in advising what set's going where could be looked at if last minute changes are an issue (especially if the system as it stands is just based on the idea of "Well, that's how we've always done it"). And people do generally accept that occasionally, there'll be a platform alteration.

3 - Just have it open like the vast majority of other stations in the country. If ticket checks are a massive issue, the local platforms are already barriered and VT of all operators can't argue there isn't time to do a ticket check after departure. If it's open, you have loads of people waiting on the platform in the right place at the right time, rather than a throng of people fighting their way down when it's announced five minutes before it leaves!

It works, but it works in the same way as you could say "well, an abacus works to make calculations" - yes, but so does a pocket calculator, which is much easier and a better system. The Euston system isn't passenger friendly in the slightest - in fact I'd go as far as to say it's the only reason I'd mark Virgin down on their West Coast service.

 

[transportphoto]

At least passengers await the platform to be displayed at Euston and other London Terminals. Unlike London Liverpool Street and the passengers just board the London to Norwich mainline trains when they arrive! I find it disgusting and the poor cleaners cant do their job without the nuisance of them boarding!

I often enter the platform early and wait at the closest Platform screen to the door I wish to board through until the service is shown. Although I am pretty damn certain that this is the train I want. This way, I am not harming the turn around teams but still being one of the first on.

TP

 

[Geezertronic]

Point 1 - I don't see what the problem is with passengers being on anyway? Staff can still go through emptying bins and collecting litter, there aren't any reservation labels to put out because it's done electronically. But if it's a big issue just put on the platform and train door boards "**NOT IN SERVICE**" or similar like they do elsewhere, until it's ready to board.

There is the trolley carts taking the restocking of the food to the sets so that is one reason so people don't get run over by these. Also I assume it is far more efficient to service a set when there are no passengers in the way

2 - How often though do they happen in comparison to the number of departures? More effective communication between VT and the NR Station Control Team in advising what set's going where could be looked at if last minute changes are an issue (especially if the system as it stands is just based on the idea of "Well, that's how we've always done it"). And people do generally accept that occasionally, there'll be a platform alteration.

In my experience it happens more often than the average Joe notices given the fact the WCML can be chaos at the best of times.

3 - Just have it open like the vast majority of other stations in the country. If ticket checks are a massive issue, the local platforms are already barriered and VT of all operators can't argue there isn't time to do a ticket check after departure. If it's open, you have loads of people waiting on the platform in the right place at the right time, rather than a throng of people fighting their way down when it's announced five minutes before it leaves!

To be fair, Euston isn't the best station in the world. Maybe when/if the refurb goes ahead then issues like this can be sorted. But until then it is probably best to leave things as they are

It works, but it works in the same way as you could say "well, an abacus works to make calculations" - yes, but so does a pocket calculator, which is much easier and a better system. The Euston system isn't passenger friendly in the slightest - in fact I'd go as far as to say it's the only reason I'd mark Virgin down on their West Coast service.

Euston is a Network Rail owned and managed station, thing to do with VT (or LM)