Bombardier Trains

[Wyvern]

A BOSS from rail operator Southern Trains has said he is "delighted" with the quality of trains that his firm has ordered from. Bombardier.

Gerry McFadden, fleet director for Southern, made his comments during a visit to the company's Litchurch Lane plant . . . . , where he inspected the first completed carriage on the production line.
http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/Rail-boss-praises-Derby-built-Bombardier-trains/story-17628818-detail/story.html

 

[ainsworth74]

If they couldn't put a design as mature as the Electrostar together to a high standard I'd be very worried!

 

[RichmondCommu]

If they couldn't put a design as mature as the Electrostar together to a high standard I'd be very worried!

But never less it’s a positive indictment for trains constructed at Litchurch Lane and surely that can't be a bad thing? Hopefully this will boast their case for winning the Cross Rail order? We need to do all we can to maintain and increase our manufacturing base.

 

[fgwrich]

But never less it’s a positive indictment for trains constructed at Litchurch Lane and surely that can't be a bad thing? Hopefully this will boast their case for winning the Cross rail order? We need to do all we can to maintain and increase our manufacturing base.

A BOSS from rail operator Southern Trains has said he is "delighted" with the quality of trains that his firm has ordered from. Bombardier.

http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/Rail-boss-praises-Derby-built-Bombardier-trains/story-17628818-detail/story.html

The slight irony of this being after former Chief Excec Keith Ludeman's comments made last year about Bombardier and their class 172s.

As for the Crossrail order, i wouldnt place your bets too highly, with Siemens winning the signalling order, and the 'fun' TfL seem to be having with a certain Derby manufacturing plant & it's products.

 

[317666]

Quality and Bombardier in the same sentence? hock:

Mind you, I suppose it makes sense considering how many other batches of 377s have been built there!

 

[Class377/5]

Nothing to do with tonorrow's press day at Derby showing off the 377/6 and announcing officially it's signed for the eight additional 377/6's?

Here's a picture of said units.


377601 by Sparkyscrum, on Flickr

 

[ainsworth74]

Here's a picture of said units.

Quality!? They don't even have doors or glass windows!

 

[RichmondCommu]

As for the Crossrail order, i wouldnt place your bets too highly, with Siemens winning the signalling order, and the 'fun' TfL seem to be having with a certain Derby manufacturing plant & it's products.

Well signals don't carry passengers and as I understand it the issues with the Class 172's have now been resolved. It's far from unusual for new designs to teething problems.

 

[Nym]

Quality!? They don't even have doors or windows!

It's Bombardiers improved cooling and ventilaton system, will also reduce station dwell times...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Well signals don't carry passengers and as I understand it the issues with the Class 172's have now been resolved. It's far from unusual for new designs to teething problems.

I'm sure the new S stock has had significant issues too?

 

[Jatos]

Yes, I believe there have a few s-stock problems!

LOL, Bombardiers 'improved cooling and ventilation system'

 

[RichmondCommu]

I'm sure the new S stock has had significant issues too?

I'll take your word for it as I don't travel on the 'Met. However, given that underground stock with aircon is a new development teething troubles are to be expected. Who's to say that Siemens wouldn't have had the same problems? And no I'm not biased; my half German son works for Siemens!

 

[fgwrich]

I'm sure the new S stock has had significant issues too?

And then there was the infamous problems with the oversensitive doors on the new Vic Stock, as shown to LUL's frustration by the BBC's 'The Tube' series.

True Richmond Commuter, but at least Siemens seem to be very good at addressing any problems, particularly before and during th early stages of entry to service. For Desiro City units for Thameslink for example, will be tested on Wildenrath (as per other Siemens units), and despite the contract not yet fully signed, they've still invested over £50M into the project, including various key items already undergoing prototype testing (bogies, brakes & traction motors for example). Something that seems to be lacking from our 'derby' based friends. As we came to the conclusion of on one of the other threads recently, It's a sad state of affairs, but Bombardier UK only have their management to blame.

I wonder how similar they will be to the 379s than 377s and vice versa.

 

[MCR247]

I'll take your word for it as I don't travel on the 'Met. However, given that underground stock with aircon is a new development teething troubles are to be expected. Who's to say that Siemens wouldn't have had the same problems? And no I'm not biased; my half German son works for Siemens!

Oh yes they'd have worked fine without the air con

 

[MCR247]

It's far from unusual for new designs to teething problems.

For bombardier is far from unusual for there to be teething problems on an order of the same train they have probably built over 500 of

 

[RichmondCommu]

Oh yes they'd have worked fine without the air con

I dare say you're right. But as I said before I have no need to use the 'Met.

 

[tsr]

...rail operator Southern Trains...

Oh yes, and which rail operator would this be? That seems to be some sloppy newspaper reporting/editing!

I dare say you're right. But as I said before I have no need to use the 'Met.

I think you're replying too seriously to what may have been a comment intended in a tone of sarcasm - the S8s have had a number of other problems besides any to do with air-con, to my knowledge!

 

[ainsworth74]

Indeed! They seem to be mostly alright now but there are clearly still some issues what with a load of them going back to Derby for more fettling. They've been in service for what? two years? And they're still not right!

 

[RichmondCommu]

Oh yes, and which rail operator would this be? That seems to be some sloppy newspaper reporting/editing!



I think you're replying too seriously to what may have been a comment intended in a tone of sarcasm

Oh you don't say! I'd already picked up on his school boy humour.

 

[Class377/5]

And then there was the infamous problems with the oversensitive doors on the new Vic Stock, as shown to LUL's frustration by the BBC's 'The Tube' series.

True Richmond Commuter, but at least Siemens seem to be very good at addressing any problems, particularly before and during th early stages of entry to service. For Desiro City units for Thameslink for example, will be tested on Wildenrath (as per other Siemens units), and despite the contract not yet fully signed, they've still invested over £50M into the project, including various key items already undergoing prototype testing (bogies, brakes & traction motors for example). Something that seems to be lacking from our 'derby' based friends. As we came to the conclusion of on one of the other threads recently, It's a sad state of affairs, but Bombardier UK only have their management to blame.

I wonder how similar they will be to the 379s than 377s and vice versa.

The 377/6 are actually just a 379 with shoes instead if a pan (although last 8 have both) and 377 programming.

As for Siemens, note they have a four car prototype build for testing and the initial bogies are built to test on the prototype. Once tested the bogies will actually go onto a production train.

Bombardier are still rewiring the initial 38 S8 as they are not fully compatable with the new signalling system, thats the signalling from Bombardier of course.

 

[tsr]

Oh you don't say! I'd already picked up on his school boy humour.

Good!

 

[HSTEd]

True Richmond Commuter, but at least Siemens seem to be very good at addressing any problems, particularly before and during th early stages of entry to service. For Desiro City units for Thameslink for example, will be tested on Wildenrath (as per other Siemens units), and despite the contract not yet fully signed, they've still invested over £50M into the project, including various key items already undergoing prototype testing (bogies, brakes & traction motors for example).
I wonder how similar they will be to the 379s than 377s and vice versa.

Siemens has spent £50m developing technologies that Bombardier already has.
For instance they haven't got a lightweight bogie similar to the one that has been trialed on the Class 172.

Its disingenuous to assume that they are doing it because they really want the contract rather than because they are at a serious competitive disadvantage if they do not develop these things anyway.

 

[F Great Eastern]

A BOSS from rail operator Southern Trains has said he is "delighted" with the quality of trains that his firm has ordered from. Bombardier.

Such statement is meaningless, it is impossible to assess the quality of a train before it has actually done any work and is still in the process of being built, of course it will look good at this point. Many things were said about the 175's and 180's when they were being built, they looked a quality train, but when they actually were unleashed on the tracks it was a very different story.

If they are quality or not should be decided on how well they cope in service for a few months, which will really show how good the build quality, the reliability is and how mechanically strong they are anyone calling trains quality when they are still in build is silly in my book,

 

[317666]

If they are quality or not should be decided on how well they cope in service for a few months, which will really show how good the build quality, the reliability is and how mechanically strong they are anyone calling trains quality when they are still in build is silly in my book,

Hear hear!

 

[fgwrich]

Siemens has spent £50m developing technologies that Bombardier already has.
For instance they haven't got a lightweight bogie similar to the one that has been trialed on the Class 172.

Its disingenuous to assume that they are doing it because they really want the contract rather than because they are at a serious competitive disadvantage if they do not develop these things anyway.

Not quite... And i do remember a case of Siemens offering Bombardier the bogie work for the Desiro City. But, who threw their toy's out of the pram and told Siemens to go away? And if Bombardier has already got enough of this new technology that siemens is spending £50 million on - Why aren't Bombardier putting it into practice then?

It always reminds me of the case at Infrarail, where the subject of the new future tube stock came up with one of the magazines. They went and visited Siemens stand who had prototype images & a model of their new 'Evo' stock, which came with a full set of tested calculations. They then went over to the Bombardier stand, who responded with something on the lines of 'We are starting from a blank piece of paper - working on creating a totally new train to meet the needs of LUL, based around our current and successful 2009 stock'. So it's new...but it's not new then.

And where did those 'Eco Flexx' bogies come from, a high speed freight wagon plan created by the later stages of British Rail.

A BOSS from rail operator Southern Trains has said he is "delighted" with the quality of trains that his firm has ordered from. Bombardier.

Going back to the original subject, we've just had the usual ar*e licking news report from BBC South Today about Bombardier being Britains Last Train Builder / Bombardier shedding over half of its work force after loosing the Thameslink Bid to German Manufacturer Siemens etc...

But, the main thing that intrigued me, was Paul Cliftons comment at the end about these new 5 car units will be in service next year replacing much older trains currently used on the London to Brighton services next year - thought these were 'to work South London commuter services' than have a knock on effect on the 442s?

 

[Class377/5]

Not quite... And i do remember a case of Siemens offering Bombardier the bogie work for the Desiro City. But, who threw their toy's out of the pram and told Siemens to go away? And if Bombardier has already got enough of this new technology that siemens is spending £50 million on - Why aren't Bombardier putting it into practice then?

It always reminds me of the case at Infrarail, where the subject of the new future tube stock came up with one of the magazines. They went and visited Siemens stand who had prototype images & a model of their new 'Evo' stock, which came with a full set of tested calculations. They then went over to the Bombardier stand, who responded with something on the lines of 'We are starting from a blank piece of paper - working on creating a totally new train to meet the needs of LUL, based around our current and successful 2009 stock'. So it's new...but it's not new then.

And where did those 'Eco Flexx' bogies come from, a high speed freight wagon plan created by the later stages of British Rail.

Indeed. Seems Bombardier is happy to invest once it's got it's order but not ahead. Siemens on the other hand spends and then tries to win business. Two very different ways of doing with only one showing commitment.

Going back to the original subject, we've just had the usual ar*e licking news report from BBC South Today about Bombardier being Britains Last Train Builder / Bombardier shedding over half of its work force after loosing the Thameslink Bid to German Manufacturer Siemens etc...

But, the main thing that intrigued me, was Paul Cliftons comment at the end about these new 5 car units will be in service next year replacing much older trains currently used on the London to Brighton services next year - thought these were 'to work South London commuter services' than have a knock on effect on the 442s?

they are replacing the 456 by moving around stock. There's a cascade plan happen with these units introduction and will be felt nationwide.

Here's some pictures of new trains

http://www.rail.co/2012/12/20/first-southern-3776-nears-completion/

First Southern 377/6 nears completion

The first vehicle of Southern’s 26 five-car class 377/6s has been completed at Bombardier’s Derby works.
Static testing of the first train is due to commence in February, with the completed unit expected to leave Derby in the late spring or early summer.
Testing on the mainline is to take place around Kent.
Introduction into passenger service will allow class 456s to be cascaded to South West Trains after they have received a C6 overhaul.
All of the 130 vehicles are expected to enter traffic for the December 2013 timetable change.
On November 14, Southern announced that it was exercising the option, which was due to expire on December 31, to order 40 more (eight five-car sets) Electrostar vehicles from Bombardier. These will be delivered in 2014 and unlike the 377/6 will be dual voltage.
The new suburban 377/6s were ordered because the 23 377/5s, and three of its own 377/2s, currently subleased to First Capital Connect, are not due to be returned to Southern before 2015 as originally planned due to delays in procuring the new Thameslink stock.
All of the 34 new units are being funded by Porterbrook.
The contract for the first 26 trains is worth £188.8 million and for the other eight around £34 million.

 

[Chris125]

But, the main thing that intrigued me, was Paul Cliftons comment at the end about these new 5 car units will be in service next year replacing much older trains currently used on the London to Brighton services next year - thought these were 'to work South London commuter services' than have a knock on effect on the 442s?

I believe the plan is for 10-car 377/6's to replace 8-car 455's on suburban services, which will in turn cascade the 456's to SWT. From what's been said the Wessex Electrics are here to stay.

Chris

 

[transmanche]

It's far from unusual for new designs to teething problems.

Indeed, even the venerable 1938 tube stock gave a lot of difficulties when they were new. But with those problems long ago ironed out, they're still going on the IoW.

1938 Tube Stock by Piers Connor says the issues included compressors and speedometers etc.