Border protocols at "Schengen" borders

[1D54]

I was stopped by Police / Customs on the Polish / German border at Frankfurt (o) a couple of months ago after a shopping trip to Slubice. All good natured but i was questioned how many times i make such a journey after they saw the amount of German entry stamps in my passport. I was also 'advised' to bring back no more than four blocks of cigarettes if i go in the future.

 

[Route115?]

In the past you could get a train to Basel Bad from Basel SBB & have to walk through customs to get back into Switzerland. (Mind you it was generally unmanned.)

There was border control building at Schaffhausen but it seemed to have been demolished the last time I was there.

Similarly Basel SNCF seems to have been integrated into the main complex.

In many Continental countries police have the right to check your ID so it seems that this is being done at the border- it could also be done elsewhere in the country.

You can undertake both immigration & customs checks at borders & I have certainly seen sniffer dogs (presumambly checking for drugs) deployed at Chiasso.

I did a trip on the Bernina line in 2022 & rather than go into Italy got off at Campocologno as the Italians were insisiting on paperwork to enter the country which I though too much hassle (and was travelling without a smart phone). Interstingly back then there was no paperwork to get into Germany from Switzerland. Indeed I believe that trains at Basel & Schaffhausen / Singen are exempt from compulsory reservation. You could in any case use local trains. SBB/Thurbo trains serve Konstanz (indeed from both Switzerland and Germany (Singen)) & I have never seen any border controls carried out.

 

[signed]

There are quite frequent controls at Ventimiglia, both at the border toll-booths and at the FS station.

This is mostly from Italy to France, both to catch the knockoffs sold at Ventimiglia market, and the illegal immigration route through there.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I was just checked on a foot bridge from Gentingen/ Germany into Luxembourg. According to the local camping site owner totally unheard of before.

People crossing borders on foot is commonly a problem for anyone wanting to police it.

A few years back I was walking in the woods near the Belgium/Netherlands/Germany tri-point south-west of Aachen. The roads and paths get there via different countries or combinations of countries; my route through the woods could have been on either side of one of the border lines depending on where/when I crossed the ditch (I tripped over at one point and was no doubt in both...). The touristy area at the top of the hill near the technical tri-point allows free wandering without anyone caring about where the borders are.

Europe is full of places like that - where locals (or anyone on foot with a large-ish scale map and a bit of gumption) couldn't be policed even if anyone wanted to.

 

[zero]

A few years back I was walking in the woods near the Belgium/Netherlands/Germany tri-point south-west of Aachen. The roads and paths get there via different countries or combinations of countries; my route through the woods could have been on either side of one of the border lines depending on where/when I crossed the ditch (I tripped over at one point and was no doubt in both...). The touristy area at the top of the hill near the technical tri-point allows free wandering without anyone caring about where the borders are.

Europe is full of places like that - where locals (or anyone on foot with a large-ish scale map and a bit of gumption) couldn't be policed even if anyone wanted to.

How were such areas policed before borders were open?

 

[RT4038]

Europe is full of places like that - where locals (or anyone on foot with a large-ish scale map and a bit of gumption) couldn't be policed even if anyone wanted to.

Of course it could be done - the Eastern Bloc countries managed to have effective, workable secure borders between them and the West. It involves miles and miles of fence, watchtowers, border guard patrols etc etc. Expensive and restrictive, but quite possible!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Without becoming too political - not the forum for that kind of discussion, there are a variety of reasons why migrants head for particular countries, such as the generosity of the asylum offer (this is not the UK) or the availability of work in the ‘informal sector’ (this is the UK). So a person wishing to avail themselves of either opportunity is going to want to take themselves to a particular destination (or use a people trafficker) to effect this. This is will be, in many cases, public transport, as cramming people into trucks is dangerous and usually nowadays detected. If migrants come from Africa, they normally head for either Spain or Italy. From Asia, usually Turkey then either Greece or Bulgaria. We can then traduce where the likeliest Schengen crossing points will be and where controls are likely. Hence the aforementioned Ventimiglia/Menton controls and controls on the Swiss/French/Italian/German borders. I recall Eurostar heavily controlling Brussels/Lille trains because people were buying tickets for this stretch and then overstaying the ride.

In recent years the French and Italian politicians have been arguing with each other about poor policing of immigrants and asylum processing, mainly in the French direction.
Hence the increase in surveillance and border activity.
Not unlike how we blame the French for not stopping the boats.
The extra German controls for the Euros will no doubt fade away, but if RN gets into government in France next week things could get more difficult at French borders.

 

[riceuten]

If RN gets into government in France next week things could get more difficult at French borders.

Le Pen has said she wants ALL of Frances's borders "secured". Which, as mentioned up there, would be somewhat impractical, given the hundreds of kilometres of unsecured borders it has with Germany, Luxembourg and France.

Last time we were in Luxembourg and taking advantage of their wonderful free transport countrywide offer, we went to Mondorf-Les-Bains which has Luxembourg's only Casino, and Spa, right up against the border. We wandered around the park and there were numerous areas where the border between France and Luxembourg was painted on the ground. Between Alsace and Germany, there is a great deal of forest that has NEVER been controlled in decades, even pre-Schengen.

There are a number of local cross border train services that would become wholly impractical if a long immigration stop was factored in (Neustadt ADW to Wissembourg, Saarbrucken - Forbach, the train/tram to Saarguemines).

I suspect the practicalities of this are not foremost in her mind, rather the optics of it to the electorate.

 

[AlbertBeale]

How were such areas policed before borders were open?

They weren't, really - at least not in full. They could block the official crossings and police them, and generally put on a show which would deter most regular travellers. But in lots of places, a local prepared to drive an old banger across a few fields and cart tracks [or, in my case, a non-local with a local guide!] could often manage to cross a closed border. Apart from much of (though even then, not all) the "Iron Curtain", few borders in Europe were without varying amounts of porosity.

 

[riceuten]

I was talking to someone who lived near the French border pre-1990s and the border control near Wissembourg was

a) sporadic
b) 8am to 6pm
c) only stopped certain vehicles

They were nowhere near enough staff to stop and check every vehicle. One or two at the most.

 

[StephenHunter]

Of course it could be done - the Eastern Bloc countries managed to have effective, workable secure borders between them and the West. It involves miles and miles of fence, watchtowers, border guard patrols etc etc. Expensive and restrictive, but quite possible!

Very expensive; the Inner German border and associated restrictions in the border zone reduced East Germany's GDP by something like 6%, I recall reading.

 

[zero]

There are a number of local cross border train services that would become wholly impractical if a long immigration stop was factored in (Neustadt ADW to Wissembourg, Saarbrucken - Forbach, the train/tram to Saarguemines).

And Basel tram 10, which I took to Rodersdorf on 3 March 2019. I entered France at 1524 and exited France at 1529, then entered France at 1542 and exited at 1546. On the return trip there was another tourist documenting this border crossing.

 

[nwales58]

Anything better than REX6?
Slovakia at 0816
By 0820 you're in Austria
Bit after 1030 you're in Hungary
10 minutes later back in Austria.

 

[DavidGrain]

I regularly (about once a year) cross the Oresunds Bridge on the train between Copenhagen and Malmo. For years now the train has been stopped at the first station going into Sweden for an ID check but only once have I had to produce my passport and that was on a rush hour train when the train was absolutely packed. This was introduced a few years ago when the EU had its first major refugee crisis.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Anything better than REX6?
Slovakia at 0816
By 0820 you're in Austria
Bit after 1030 you're in Hungary
10 minutes later back in Austria.

Is this one continuous journey on REX6?

 

[zero]

Bus 25 Schaffhausen (Switzerland) to Ramsen (Switzerland) via Germany, Switzerland and Germany



Bus 460 Turnhout to Baarle, someone else can work out how many times it actually crosses borders (maybe not that many)

I regularly (about once a year) cross the Oresunds Bridge on the train between Copenhagen and Malmo. For years now the train has been stopped at the first station going into Sweden for an ID check but only once have I had to produce my passport and that was on a rush hour train when the train was absolutely packed. This was introduced a few years ago when the EU had its first major refugee crisis.

8+ years now. In 2015, DSB hired private security who checked ID before permitting access to the Swedish-bound platform at CPH airport station, and then Swedish police did full checks at Hyllie on every train. Yet sometimes no checks occurred when taking a bus or as a private car passenger (the driver got checked).

 

[nwales58]

Is this one continuous journey on REX6?

Hourly.

 

[Beebman]

Bus 25 Schaffhausen (Switzerland) to Ramsen (Switzerland) via Germany, Switzerland and Germany

View attachment 161211

According to Wikipedia the German exclave of Büsingen is part of the Swiss customs union and has had no border controls since 4 October 1967. The excellent Tim Traveller made a video about the place a few years ago:

He explains its history and at 2:57 (starting with a shot of a route 25 bus stop!) he talks about how it is today with it being part of the Swiss customs zone and CHF being the local currency.

 

[The exile]

Hourly.

Presumably that’s Bratislava to Deutschkreutz (via Sopron).

 

[MrJeeves]

I was on a Hamburg-Copenhagen DB service about 6 weeks ago and Danish Police boarded for ID checks once across the border. Or that's what we were told, with how quickly the officer that I saw got through the carriage behind my compartment, there's no way she saw many if any IDs.

I was on one last year. Danish police boarded as we stopped just after the border, and walked through the train only asking one group of people for ID, who happened to not be white. Obviously, I can't say whether that was racial profiling or some legitimate intelligence they had received from somewhere, but it's definitely not a great look.

 

[185143]

I was on one last year. Danish police boarded as we stopped just after the border, and walked through the train only asking one group of people for ID, who happened to not be white. Obviously, I can't say whether that was racial profiling or some legitimate intelligence they had received from somewhere, but it's definitely not a great look.

The Airbnb host I stayed with in Denmark very heavily implied that's what it was when I asked him if it was normal.

 

[MrJeeves]

The Airbnb host I stayed with in Denmark very heavily implied that's what it was when I asked him if it was normal.

It really is, unfortunately. It was the same when they had controls on the Øresund bridge for a few years, too.

 

[E94]

The German police were checking people at the ferry port in Rostock last week.
I was waiting outside the terminal building, and shortly after the port bus had dropped off foot passengers from the inbound boat from Sweden two police officers turned up in their van.
One walked up to me, I told them I was travelling to Trelleborg and handed him my ticket and passport, he took one look at the ticket and handed them back and wished me a pleasant journey.

 

[MrJeeves]

I've always wondered... what if you don't bring your passport? I thought there was no requirement for ID with inter-Schengen travel in practice. Do you get detained until you can somehow prove your identity?

 

[scragend]

I've always wondered... what if you don't bring your passport? I thought there was no requirement for ID with inter-Schengen travel in practice. Do you get detained until you can somehow prove your identity?

In a lot of countries it's technically a requirement to carry ID with you at all times, even if you aren't crossing a border.

I don't know what is meant to happen if you are asked for it and don't have it. My own anecdotal evidence as I mentioned above is that I got let off, but others may not be so lucky.

 

[DanielB]

I don't know what is meant to happen if you are asked for it and don't have it.

Depends on where you're asked it for, for example, when found in public transport in the Netherlands without a valid ticket there is (dependant on the region) often an option to pay immediately which avoids the need for an ID. Can't you do so or in case you'd not want to, ID is required.
For Dutch citizens, they'd be able to look you up in the "basisregistratie persoonsgegevens" with name and date of birth. But when this fails you might be taken to a police station to prove your identity, or be asked to have your ID brought by someone.

By the way: in the Netherlands (and possibly more countries in Schengen) there is no requirement to carry an ID at all times. The only requirement is to show it at all times (so police cannot stop you just to check if you've got an ID with you, but they can ask for it when you commit an offence).

 

[alistairlees]

I've seen it mentioned in this Forum that Germany is checking incoming trains from Poland at Frankfurt am Der Oder thereby causing delays.

I travelled from Poznan to Berlin on the 07.21 service from Poznan on Thursday 27th June and was not checked (nor was the train delayed at all). At least 7 border guards / police, from both Poland and Germany, did join at Swiebodzin and seemingly targeted someone a few compartments away. I retired to the restaurant car and had a late breakfast - always the best method of dealing with these things.

Later in the day I travelled to Basel SBB and didn’t see any guards boarding the DB ICE train.

On Monday 1st July I travelled on a Trenord service from Lugano to Milan. Quite a few police and border patrol - at least 10 I think - joined at Chiasso. None came into my carriage though so I assume they were targeting someone somewhere else.

 

[route101]

I crossed the Swiss/ French border at La Cure pretty freely. They were checking cars on and off I noticed.

 

[D6130]

I crossed the Swiss/French border at Basel last Wednesday and walked from the main concourse to the SNCF platforms unhindered....not a sign of any Swiss or French frontier police anywhere.

 

[nwales58]

I crossed the Swiss/French border at Basel ....not a sign of any Swiss or French frontier police anywhere.

The single storey building has one-way glass, as well as the odd camera. I've seen man and dog come out to have a sniff of an arriving passenger.