Boy, four, wanders streets after being abandoned on bus

[overthewater]

https://stv.tv/news/north/1404474-boy-four-wanders-streets-after-being-abandoned-on-bus/

The driver has been sacked and police are also investigating...

A four-year-old child was found on a street two miles away from his house after being left on a school minibus by himself.

John Robertson was discovered by two women on Stadium Road near the Caledonian Stadium in Inverness.

The pupil at Munlochy Primary School on the Black Isle was due to be dropped off at his house in North Kessock but the driver missed his stop and drove over the Kessock Bridge.


John was then taken to a D&E Coaches depot with the driver not realising the youngster was still on the bus.

The primary one pupil thought the driver was going to come back but after crying for help, John got off the bus by himself and walked down Stadium Road.

Speaking to STV News, his father, John Robertson Snr, said: "We thought the bus was late because of the weather. My wife phoned the school and there was no answer so we called the bus company.

"They said John had been dropped off at the house but this wasn't the case because I was looking out the window waiting for him. They then claimed he never got on the bus."

He added: "Nobody had heard or seen him so we phoned 999. The police said two members of the public had found him and were on their way to the station with him.

"It turned out he was put on the right bus but the driver didn't drop him off. He was left at the depot but I do not know how the driver never noticed him."

Family: John Jnr, in red, with his parents and brother.
It was his son's first week taking the bus. D&E Coaches has since sacked the driver following the incident.

Mr Robertson said both himself and his wife Nikki were "absolutely petrified" during the ordeal.

"He would have been on the bus for about an hour," he said.

"It is just as well it was a minibus because it's just a door at the front which can be opened.

"We were absolutely petrified when he was on the street. Anyone could have picked him up."

He added: "A lot of lorries use it to get on to the A9 plus the Moray Firth is there.

"We are furious at what has happened. Since the incident, he has been waking up in the middle of the night crying not wanting to be alone. It is horrible."

'He has been waking up in the middle of the night crying not wanting to be alone. It is horrible.'
John Robertson Snr
A D&E Coaches spokesman said: "We are extremely disappointed at the circumstances in which a child was left on one of our minibuses going from Munlochy Primary School to North Kessock last Friday when it was parked in a yard in Inverness.

"A full internal investigation has been conducted and the driver concerned has been dismissed for gross misconduct.

"Relying on an assurance from another pupil that this child was not on the bus is unacceptable. All drivers are expected to check their buses at the end of the journey but this clearly did not occur in this instance."

He added: "As a result of the incident we are introducing a new course on Driver Awareness in School Contracts as part of the accreditation process for a driver licence.

"We are also introducing refresher courses for long-term employees."

The company has vowed to do all it can to ensure a similar incident does not happen again.

"We wish to express our sincere apologies to the family of the child for the distress caused and we are extremely relieved that the child was safe and sound," the spokesman said.

"This is the first time anything of this nature has occurred to mar our excellent record and the new measures will enhance driver vigilance to try to ensure there is never a repeat."

'We are extremely disappointed at the circumstances in which a child was left on one of our minibuses.'
D&E Coaches
A joint police and council investigation has been launched following the incident on Friday, which the local authority has described as "deeply concerning".

A Highland Council spokeswoman said: "We are extremely concerned about this incident and we are carrying out a full investigation into the circumstances with our contracted school transport provider.

"The incident is also the subject of an ongoing police investigation."

A Police Scotland spokesman said: "Police Scotland can confirm a four-year-old child was taken to Burnett Road Police Station by a member of the public on the afternoon of Friday, December 8.

"The child had been found unaccompanied in the Stadium Road area of Inverness.

"Enquiries are ongoing to establish the full circumstances."

 

[Volvodart]

Not that unusual, this happened with Central Coaches in Aberdeen a while ago.

 

[overthewater]

Not that unusual, this happened with Central Coaches in Aberdeen a while ago.

Surely there something clearly going wrong? Is it to much to ask for drivers to do a clean sweep at the last stop? Council does not help it if there dont allow parents to travel on the service every so often?

 

[robbeech]

I'd like to suggest that giving one more example of something that happened an unspecified amount of time ago relative to the number of journeys undertaken day on day is likely not frequent enough to consider this incident "Not that unusual"

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are 4 year olds transported on buses on their own with no properly qualified member of staff other than a driver? This seems poor in itself. We wouldn’t do that in Scouting.

 

[Lrd]

Are 4 year olds transported on buses on their own with no properly qualified member of staff other than a driver? This seems poor in itself. We wouldn’t do that in Scouting.

I did a school run job early this year and was the only adult on the bus, I had to collect kids ranging from nursery (3+4 years old) up to Year 6 (11 years old). I had first aid training and an enhanced DBS check. My boss was pushing for a teacher to travel on the buses as well but because it happened for years with no teacher (different bus firm were running it) and no issues they refused.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I know of no school bus service that has anyone in addition to the driver. Very common. But the bus should be checked at the end. It boils down to cost of course.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know of no school bus service that has anyone in addition to the driver. Very common. But the bus should be checked at the end. It boils down to cost of course.

Fine for older kids, but I’d say for 3-4 year olds that’s downright negligent. Scouting uses a ratio of 1-6 + 1 for 6-8 year olds. For 3-4 year olds on a bus you’d want better than that. Not because of issues on board, but in case of accident.

I’m actually shocked this is going on.

 

[northwichcat]

Fine for older kids, but I’d say for 3-4 year olds that’s downright negligent. Scouting uses a ratio of 1-6 + 1 for 6-8 year olds. For 3-4 year olds on a bus you’d want better than that. Not because of issues on board, but in case of accident.

I’m actually shocked this is going on.

When I was at primary school I seem to recall there was a minibus which took children of all ages to some of the villages around the town. Although, I seem to recall the minibus was met by the headteacher in the morning and pupils who took the minibus had to go to the school hall at the end of the day, from where the head teacher took them to the bus. No idea what happened at the other end but I would have hoped for younger pupils their parents would have been waiting where they would be dropped off.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The issue is less the origin and destination, but in the event of an accident with very young children effectively unsupervised wandering around the road.

I would expect for children under about 8 for a second member of staff to be needed as a bare minimum. For 3-4 year olds I would expect more than one - probably 3 plus the driver in a full sized coach.

 

[theblackwatch]

When I went to primary school, I used to travel on the (full size) school bus on my own - my mum came on the bus on my first day (although the driver said she couldn't - her reply was something along the lines of that she was doing so and he wasn't going to stop her ). My mum and other parents took it in turns to take a few of us kids up to the bus stop and put us on it and pick us up from the stop after school. Is it really so much dangerous now than it was in the 70s?

I do agree though that the driver shuld carry out a check when back at the depot - as they should when finishing a 'public' turn.

 

[Bletchleyite]

When I went to primary school, I used to travel on the (full size) school bus on my own - my mum came on the bus on my first day (although the driver said she couldn't - her reply was something along the lines of that she was doing so and he wasn't going to stop her ). My mum and other parents took it in turns to take a few of us kids up to the bus stop and put us on it and pick us up from the stop after school. Is it really so much dangerous now than it was in the 70s?

In the world generally probably not - for one thing there's CCTV everywhere. But the roads are busier, faster and hugely more aggressive, and a lack of supervision on a school bus is primarily a road safety (in the event of an accident) issue.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Fine for older kids, but I’d say for 3-4 year olds that’s downright negligent. Scouting uses a ratio of 1-6 + 1 for 6-8 year olds. For 3-4 year olds on a bus you’d want better than that. Not because of issues on board, but in case of accident.

I’m actually shocked this is going on.

If it is just a service bus (which most are these days) then there is nothing to stop anyone accompanying their child if they want. But bear in mind the bus doesn't come back till the end of the day, so they may be stranded at the school for the day, depending on its location.

If it is a contract bus, it depends what the contract stipulates, but is very rare (I have never heard of it) as extra people come at extra cost

 

[Robertj21a]

In the world generally probably not - for one thing there's CCTV everywhere. But the roads are busier, faster and hugely more aggressive, and a lack of supervision on a school bus is primarily a road safety (in the event of an accident) issue.

Surely, few school buses have any adult supervision other than the driver ? - or do you mean just for the very youngest ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely, few school buses have any adult supervision other than the driver ? - or do you mean just for the very youngest ?

Yes, it's the 3-4 year olds thing I find shocking. Nursery age kids need decent direct supervision with no other responsibilities. Putting them on a bus with only the driver is in my view negligent (and were I a parent they would not be going on said bus) - there will be nobody to supervise them at all if there is an accident if the driver is injured or busy exchanging details/having an argument with whoever else is involved in the accident.

Only when a child is old enough to take a service bus on their own (which I guess is going to be roughly the infant-junior transition) should they be on a bus with only the driver on board, and even then it is questionable if behaviour is particularly poor.

 

[Robertj21a]

Yes, it's the 3-4 year olds thing I find shocking. Nursery age kids need decent direct supervision with no other responsibilities. Putting them on a bus with only the driver is in my view negligent (and were I a parent they would not be going on said bus) - there will be nobody to supervise them at all if there is an accident if the driver is injured or busy exchanging details/having an argument with whoever else is involved in the accident.

Only when a child is old enough to take a service bus on their own (which I guess is going to be roughly the infant-junior transition) should they be on a bus with only the driver on board, and even then it is questionable if behaviour is particularly poor.

I guess this must be down to the individual school, or the contracting authority, to determine what is acceptable. I can't think of any relevant law.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I guess this must be down to the individual school, or the contracting authority, to determine what is acceptable. I can't think of any relevant law.

Nor I. But law or no, I'm amazed anyone considers a coachload of 4 year olds with just the driver (or even a 17 seat minibus) to be in any way sensible.

 

[PeterC]

Nor I. But law or no, I'm amazed anyone considers a coachload of 4 year olds with just the driver (or even a 17 seat minibus) to be in any way sensible.

Me too

 

[Robertj21a]

Nor I. But law or no, I'm amazed anyone considers a coachload of 4 year olds with just the driver (or even a 17 seat minibus) to be in any way sensible.

Agreed. I wonder at what age a local authority would feel that children can be carried unaccompanied....... 7 perhaps ?

 

[quarella]

It isn't about what is sensible. It is down to money. My local council is currently reviewing the provision of escorted school transport. In Scouting Bletchleyrite you can choose whether a trip will take place. A council must provide school transport if certain criteria are met on an ever decreasing budget and increasing demand. It is not just the cost of the escort but the increased cost of driver and vehicle. As an example one special school run I drove sometimes, had I travelled directly between the yard and the first pick up/drop off I could have saved an hour and about 6 miles twice a day, 5 days a week, forty weeks a year. That is just one example among the multiple contracts. What other services are we willing to sacrifice, or level of council tax increase to provide escorted transport

 

[Robertj21a]

It isn't about what is sensible. It is down to money. My local council is currently reviewing the provision of escorted school transport. In Scouting Bletchleyrite you can choose whether a trip will take place. A council must provide school transport if certain criteria are met on an ever decreasing budget and increasing demand. It is not just the cost of the escort but the increased cost of driver and vehicle. As an example one special school run I drove sometimes, had I travelled directly between the yard and the first pick up/drop off I could have saved an hour and about 6 miles twice a day, 5 days a week, forty weeks a year. That is just one example among the multiple contracts. What other services are we willing to sacrifice, or level of council tax increase to provide escorted transport

I'm aware that some escorts are provided by the schools themselves, it's not all down to the councils.

 

[overthewater]

Maybe instead of all these tax cuts we still spending the money again?

 

[GusB]

This situation could have turned out a lot worse, given the proximity of the depot to the A9. I initially heard about it on the radio, and the father was reported as saying that at least he could put the bairn to bed that night. The wee man is alive and well, although it must have been a fair ordeal for him.

I'm quite baffled as to why a four-year-old child wasn't spotted as missing before the bus got back to the depot. Who was there to meet him off the bus? Reports say that the driver was dismissed due to gross misconduct, but I can't help but feel that he/she is carrying the can for a wider systemic failure.

 

[PeterC]

SNIP

I'm quite baffled as to why a four-year-old child wasn't spotted as missing before the bus got back to the depot. Who was there to meet him off the bus? Reports say that the driver was dismissed due to gross misconduct, but I can't help but feel that he/she is carrying the can for a wider systemic failure.

I was too at first. My own kids always lived within walking distance of school but from what others have told me there are a lot of informal arrangements where one parent will do bus stop duty. If the boy didn't get off the parent meeting the bus probably assumed that he had been kept away from school.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It isn't about what is sensible. It is down to money.

There is money to spend, it would just have to be diverted from something else.

It is not appropriate to have unsupervised 4 year olds travelling by bus (I would suggest up to about 8 years old direct supervision is necessary for the event of an accident). It is in my view criminally negligent.

While this isn't a suitable funding source, I find the disconnect between road and rail transport most interesting. Most people on here do not support DOO on the wider rail network. Yet in my eyes a bus full of very young children (of the sort of age that parents would be considered criminally negligent if they left them on their own for any period of time however short) is far more in need of a second (and probably third) member of staff than a train largely full of adults needs a guard. If we conclude, as most here do, that a train does need a guard, these buses definitely need at least one dedicated, properly trained member of childcare staff.

 

[Bryan Andrews]

Time for a rant. Hard hat is on and I wait for comeback.
I am a bus driver. I am not a bloody childminder and I am not a teacher. I am a parent (x3) and I can tell you now there is no way, as long as my backside points downwards,that I would allow a four year old of mine to travel alone on a bus. End of. Sorry to be judgemental but I find it absolutely amazing that any parent would not escort their 4/5/6 year old in and out of school. Completely stunned at this thread. Someone tell me this does not happen!!!!!!!
As a bus driver I would not want to be responsible for children that age left in my care against my wishes. A Long time ago I did a private hire job from a primary school with a coach seated double deck olympian. When the kids were on board ,sitting in the coach seats, I could not see a single child. I could hear them perfectly well so I knew they were there but could not see a single one of them. I had six teachers/chaperones and we had a great time at Colchester Zoo then going through the bus wash at Chelmsford (driven by a mechanic while I drank tea in the canteen), and back to their school. A small child can be lost on a bus if the driver just mirror checks. No way should a bus driver be solely responsible for kids that age.

 

[Bryan Andrews]

There is money to spend, it would just have to be diverted from something else.

It is not appropriate to have unsupervised 4 year olds travelling by bus (I would suggest up to about 8 years old direct supervision is necessary for the event of an accident). It is in my view criminally negligent.

While this isn't a suitable funding source, I find the disconnect between road and rail transport most interesting. Most people on here do not support DOO on the wider rail network. Yet in my eyes a bus full of very young children (of the sort of age that parents would be considered criminally negligent if they left them on their own for any period of time however short) is far more in need of a second (and probably third) member of staff than a train largely full of adults needs a guard. If we conclude, as most here do, that a train does need a guard, these buses definitely need at least one dedicated, properly trained member of childcare staff.

Totally agree. Cannot believe people let their kids travel like this.

 

[Typhoon]

Totally agree. Cannot believe people let their kids travel like this.

You may not believe it but it happens. I can think of two cases straight away where stage carriage services convey pupils from primary schools home without a supervising adult - ages unknown but I would say 6 upwards. Both serve isolated villages/ hamlets. In one case a member of the school staff escorts the pupils to the bus from inside the school (bus usually has to 'double park' as parents park at the bus stop, but that is another story), in the other, the bus enters the school grounds. Pupils are usually met by parents (I won't say 'always' because I don't use the routes frequently enough). Is each child met by their parent ? I would say no but most are met by a parent/ other relation; others are dropped off outside what I would guess is their house (they ask, drivers always oblige).

Could a child stay on the bus after their stop? Definitely, these are public bus services, one run by a major company, no regular driver (although one route has a restricted range of drivers as it is a small independent), both have timetabled return journeys, one even loops round at the end so it would not be obvious to the driver that someone has not got off. Both have to be operated by short single deckers (eg Solo). Both include sections that are very narrow (so the driver needs to concentrate what's ahead, not what's behind him). Perhaps the only redeeming feature is that the older children do seem to be responsible (for instance, holding the hands of younger children when they get off).

Am I defending this situation? Of course not. But it happens. I suggest because the pressure is on for both parents to work ('free' childcare kicks in before 5), employers are not always sympathetic, other relations may not live locally or have their own transport, they live in isolated areas, there is (as someone once said) no alternative. At least (compared with the original case), it would be difficult to blame the drivers.

 

[theblackwatch]

You may not believe it but it happens.

What's more, we all survived! I think it was a good lesson of independence.

 

[Typhoon]

What's more, we all survived! I think it was a good lesson of independence.

And, in the case I described, in taking responsibility for others?

(Mind you, it was a different world then.)