Bradford Stations Consultation / Improvements

[Bantamzen]

Bradford Council are currently undertaking a consultation on suggested improvements to Bradford Forster Square and it's immediate surroundings (with a similar consultation / improvements possibly in the pipeline for Bradford Interchange). Details are currently very basic, with only artists impressions and a vague idea of the kind of improvements plans but this is for me a positive move forward for a station that still feels every so slightly neglected.

Any initial thoughts on the proposals, or how Forster Square (or indeed the Interchange) might be improved?

(FAO Mods, I thought there was an earlier thread on this but couldn't find it through the search engine. If there is one that I've missed and it is appropriate to move it to it, please do so. Thanks)

https://www.bradford.gov.uk/forstersquare
[URL='https://surveys.bradford.gov.uk/snapwebhost/s.asp?k=151299000576']https://surveys.bradford.gov.uk/snap...k=151299000576[/URL]

Bradford Forster Square station plans open for consultation.

We want to make a dramatic improvement to the station and we want to know what you think.


We want to make a dramatic improvement to the station and we want to know what you think.

Bradford Council and the West Yorkshire Combined Authority (WYCA) together with Network Rail and Northern are planning a major redevelopment of Bradford Forster Square Station. We want your views on the design and the facilities that the station needs to become a great gateway to Bradford City Centre.

We’re planning to replace the existing station as well as the lift and staircase tower. We want to:

Create a much larger building with a modern airy design, a glass front and a 'green' roof.
Install two new lifts to provide access to Cheapside/Manor Row.
Incorporate the arches behind the station and the lifts into the building.
Put 'pods' into the arches to provide extra station facilities.
Provide a café, toilets and ticket facilities in a smaller building within the building.
Improve the layout and access arrangements on the Valley Road side.
Clear up the overgrown area behind the station and provide a green space or 'pocket park'.

Note that we won’t be making any major changes to the railway tracks or the layout of the platforms.

Our current plans include:

A bigger building.

The whole feel of the station will be transformed with a light airy, spacious structure enclosing the lower lift entrances, the arches at the back of the station and the ticket gates. The roof will be high enough to reach above the arches on the Cheapside/Manor Road side and supported by slender columns. Glass walls and a clerestory window in the roof will add to the spacious feel of the building. A smaller building within the building will house a café, toilets and ticket facilities. Part of the building will be topped by a ‘green’ or ‘living’ roof, this will help to reduce storm water runoff and create a natural habitat.

New lifts.

Two new glass fronted lifts will replace the existing lift and stairwell tower. The new lift shafts will be much slimmer than the existing arrangement which will mean a much better view of the station when approaching from the Midland Hotel direction. Two lifts should mean a much better service between the station and Cheapside/Manor Row and the lifts will be open for longer – between the first and last train times.

New facilities.

The arches behind the station will be brought into the building and will be used to incorporate ‘pods’ - smaller structures which will be used for a range of different uses.

Improvements outside the station.

We’re going to be making big changes outside as well with improvements to the space leading down to Valley Road (next to Forster Square Retail Park). This will incorporate a turning loop for taxis and drop off and a larger pedestrian area. We’ll also be making it easier to walk up from Lower Kirkgate, next to the Midland Hotel, making a more direct link to the Broadway Shopping Centre.

Green space.

Behind the station, on the Manor Row side, we’ll be rejuvenating the overgrown area between the station and the retaining wall with its attractive Victorian arches. This will be landscaped, perhaps creating a pocket park or green space for Forster Square.

 

[xotGD]

A simple improvement would be to have clear signage showing the best walking route between the two stations. I believe that this would be marginally cheaper than replacing the two existing stations with a single station located under the city centre.

 

[thejuggler]

There is way finding signage and stainless steel way markers embedded into the pavement on the shortest route between the two stations.

 

[Bantamzen]

A simple improvement would be to have clear signage showing the best walking route between the two stations. I believe that this would be marginally cheaper than replacing the two existing stations with a single station located under the city centre.

There is way finding signage and stainless steel way markers embedded into the pavement on the shortest route between the two stations.

I hadn't released that there were markers in the pavement I have to admit.

For me the key is making the access towards The Broadway / Market Street more welcoming. I know quite a few people say that it still feels a little isolated from the rest of the city, particularly at night. The arches leading up to the Midland Hotel although now lit do still seem to attract people using them to sleep or as impromptu toilets. Perhaps if they could be used as potential new pop-up units, or even just blocked off with displays of some kind it might go some way to help. Also (although perhaps outside of the scope of this) tidying up the rear of the Midland Hotel might go some way to making it nicer, giving it less of a tradesman's entrance sort of feel. I might even go so far as to suggest covering the walkway that goes around the rear of the hotel which would make access to The Broadway a bit nicer in bad weather.

Beyond that, I wholly welcome the idea of a larger ticket hall / waiting area, although I would suggest using at least part of what is proposed to be a garden area as an extension to this. I would also love to see some kind of cafe & restroom facilities, something the station really needs. I would also like to see a larger area for buses as well as taxis, and then encourage the companies operating the North / North East corridors to call at least some services there, and by proxy giving at least a regular bus service back to the Interchange for when the weather is just too foul to feel like walking.

 

[xotGD]

There is way finding signage and stainless steel way markers embedded into the pavement on the shortest route between the two stations.

I didn't see it, and I was looking. It wasn't even clear which exit to take from Interchange to head towards FS.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Those markers in the pavement are a brilliant idea, which unfortunately falls flat due to there being no indication that they exist unless you happen to spot them. Clear, concise posters in a prominent position at each station saying something along the lines of "Looking for *the other* Station? Follow the markings in the pavement for directions." would help a lot with this.

Overall the plans seem pretty good, but whether it'll ever be a reality is another thing altogether.

 

[Geeves]

I dont know why but I find it easier to get from Forster Square to the Interchange than going the other way. Better signage would help as said for people not local as I found my self wondering around lost. A nice painted red line on the floor would be more useful than things embedded in the floor. Certainly I have never seen these.

 

[xotGD]

Anyone able to share a photo of one of these Bradford pavement markers?

 

[Spartacus]

I certainly can't see anything on Google street-view. Anything on the pavement that's not blatantly obvious is bound to be easily missed as people are used to looking up for signs, and also need to be looking up to avoid traffic. Intermittent markers on it are the worst, as they can easily be missed if the pavement's busy.

 

[DarloRich]

i don't know Bratfud well but the interchange station is a tatty building. That needs tarting up. The platform side is ok.

 

[greyman42]

i don't know Bratfud well but the interchange station is a tatty building. That needs tarting up. The platform side is ok.

In an ideal world you would just pull the whole thing down and start again. It is truly awful.

 

[snowball]

In an ideal world you would just pull the whole thing down and start again. It is truly awful.

Isn't it already a result of just pulling down the previous station and starting again?

 

[greyman42]

Isn't it already a result of just pulling down the previous station and starting again?

You may well be right. I do not remember the original station. When was it pulled down? Why was it pulled down? Was it beyond repair?

 

[mwmbwls]

Bradford Exchange situated just beyond the buffers stops at Bradford Interchanges was closed on the 14th January 1973. Part of the that site is now Bradford Crown Court.
As ever Disused Stations has the detail:
http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/bradford_exchange/index.shtml

 

[MarkyT]

You may well be right. I do not remember the original station. When was it pulled down? Why was it pulled down? Was it beyond repair?

Don't know these details but the stations on the two routes were much closer together before both were rebuilt. Rebuilding the Shipley Line terminus in the basement of the Westfield centre could help to reduce this distance. Please note I'm not advocating a 'crossrail solution' here, just moving one of the terminal stations closer to the other to reduce pedestrian walking distance and improve the interchange. However, I'm not sure if this would even be possible now with the shopping centre construction complete although I'm led to believe there is a large basement level still present beneath the shops. If Interchange eventually gets faster cross pennine expresses to Lancashire, then such an improvement could have significant benefit as it could avoid passengers from north of Bradford having to back track to Leeds to change onto the expresses. An alternative could be to convert a number of Shipley line local services terminating at Forster Square today to tram train and run them on street to interchange then (perhaps) onwards over heavy rail metals again to Low Moor before branching off to a reopened Spen Valley route under light rail rules to Dewsbury.

 

[Bantamzen]

i don't know Bratfud well but the interchange station is a tatty building. That needs tarting up. The platform side is ok.

There is some very early talk of a complete rebuild of the approaches to both the rail and bus stations, with Bradford Council mooting the idea of buying the NCP car park next to the Hilton to be partly repurposed as a new approach to both. Its all very early days of course, far more aspirational than actual so nobody's holding them to it just yet. But it does need some new thought and completely re-doing.

Don't know these details but the stations on the two routes were much closer together before both were rebuilt. Rebuilding the Shipley Line terminus in the basement of the Westfield centre could help to reduce this distance. Please note I'm not advocating a 'crossrail solution' here, just moving one of the terminal stations closer to the other to reduce pedestrian walking distance and improve the interchange. However, I'm not sure if this would even be possible now with the shopping centre construction complete although I'm led to believe there is a large basement level still present beneath the shops. If Interchange eventually gets faster cross pennine expresses to Lancashire, then such an improvement could have significant benefit as it could avoid passengers from north of Bradford having to back track to Leeds to change onto the expresses. An alternative could be to convert a number of Shipley line local services terminating at Forster Square today to tram train and run them on street to interchange then (perhaps) onwards over heavy rail metals again to Low Moor before branching off to a reopened Spen Valley route under light rail rules to Dewsbury.

If I am right, the basement of The Broadway is used for deliveries to the units as there is no other approach to the site that is suitable for HGVs, so that couldn't be reconfigured as a new station for the Aire / Wharfe lines. And to the North West corner (opposite the Midland Hotel) there are the tunnels for Bradford Beck so that would rule out any possible siting there as well. I think in terms of position Bradford's stations are now pretty much confined to where they are. Had there been the will and the finances, The Broadway project could have been built on a larger scale to incorporate a new central station, although the logistics of getting the line from the Interchange (or more likely between the Courts & Victoria Hotel) across to the site would have been challenging, though not impossible. Sadly that boat has long since sailed.

Stations-wise, I have sometimes wondered if the approaches could ever be re-configured to allow one or two more platforms at one or the other, particularly at Forster Square. Having fairly regular VTECs terminating there soon might cause a few issues for the other services if Northern continue to use P3 to stable a unit for much of the day as they have previously. And even without that, it doesn't take much in the way of delays to cause incoming and departing services to start tripping over each other. So I wonder if what is the current P1 could shifted to the other side of the tracks (using the space that is current the bushes between it and the loading area of the units alongside), then make a new island for P2 & P3 with a further line and platform using the area currently behind P3? There might not be enough space if I'm honest, I've just always wondered about the possibility. I know its all Crayolaistic but it might make the best use of the limited space allowing for the extra VTECs to have enough dwell time for the usual cleaning etc, and not cause the other services issues?

 

[thejuggler]

The Council have recently purchased the NCP car park.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There is some very early talk of a complete rebuild of the approaches to both the rail and bus stations, with Bradford Council mooting the idea of buying the NCP car park next to the Hilton to be partly repurposed as a new approach to both. Its all very early days of course, far more aspirational than actual so nobody's holding them to it just yet. But it does need some new thought and completely re-doing.



If I am right, the basement of The Broadway is used for deliveries to the units as there is no other approach to the site that is suitable for HGVs, so that couldn't be reconfigured as a new station for the Aire / Wharfe lines. And to the North West corner (opposite the Midland Hotel) there are the tunnels for Bradford Beck so that would rule out any possible siting there as well. I think in terms of position Bradford's stations are now pretty much confined to where they are. Had there been the will and the finances, The Broadway project could have been built on a larger scale to incorporate a new central station, although the logistics of getting the line from the Interchange (or more likely between the Courts & Victoria Hotel) across to the site would have been challenging, though not impossible. Sadly that boat has long since sailed.

Stations-wise, I have sometimes wondered if the approaches could ever be re-configured to allow one or two more platforms at one or the other, particularly at Forster Square. Having fairly regular VTECs terminating there soon might cause a few issues for the other services if Northern continue to use P3 to stable a unit for much of the day as they have previously. And even without that, it doesn't take much in the way of delays to cause incoming and departing services to start tripping over each other. So I wonder if what is the current P1 could shifted to the other side of the tracks (using the space that is current the bushes between it and the loading area of the units alongside), then make a new island for P2 & P3 with a further line and platform using the area currently behind P3? There might not be enough space if I'm honest, I've just always wondered about the possibility. I know its all Crayolaistic but it might make the best use of the limited space allowing for the extra VTECs to have enough dwell time for the usual cleaning etc, and not cause the other services issues?

Does the signalling at Forster Square allow multiple occupation of platforms 1 and 2? If so, that reduces the issue of a more frequent VTEC service as the majority will be 5-car SET sets rather than full-length mk4 formations.

 

[Bantamzen]

Does the signalling at Forster Square allow multiple occupation of platforms 1 and 2? If so, that reduces the issue of a more frequent VTEC service as the majority will be 5-car SET sets rather than full-length mk4 formations.

Yes it does on both, so a lot will come down to how long VTEC want for turnaround, cleaning etc. Currently P3 is in occupation for much of the day, with usually a 321/2 sitting there from the 08:52 terminator from Leeds (2P20) until forming the 16:12 to Skipton (2S40) meaning that P3 is out of passenger use for most of the day. If this stabling goes on into the new VTEC running period, it could leave just one platform for use in certain hours during the day, which given the complex pattern they currently have along with quite quick turnarounds could be an issue.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Yes it does on both, so a lot will come down to how long VTEC want for turnaround, cleaning etc. Currently P3 is in occupation for much of the day, with usually a 321/2 sitting there from the 08:52 terminator from Leeds (2P20) until forming the 16:12 to Skipton (2S40) meaning that P3 is out of passenger use for most of the day. If this stabling goes on into the new VTEC running period, it could leave just one platform for use in certain hours during the day, which given the complex pattern they currently have along with quite quick turnarounds could be an issue.

If that unit (or rather its replacement) still needs stabling between the peaks, stable it at the blocks at P1 or P2 instead, freeing up P3 For regular use. The longer platforms then are still available for regular turnarounds including the 5-car London services. The only downside being a longer walk for some services.

 

[Bantamzen]

If that unit (or rather its replacement) still needs stabling between the peaks, stable it at the blocks at P1 or P2 instead, freeing up P3 For regular use. The longer platforms then are still available for regular turnarounds including the 5-car London services. The only downside being a longer walk for some services.

True enough, and if some of the Forster Square services become 3 car 331s then the walk becomes a little shorter. I think P3 is only used for this purpose as it's slightly isolated from the other two. Of course once the 331s are in, and presumably new diagrams built perhaps there will be no need for stabling at all? To be honest I've often thought that Forster Square's design was ever so slightly wasteful with the empty patch of land next to P4, so I have often wondered if there would ever be scope to factor in a fourth platform to make better use of the space, but I suppose with current flows and diagrams there is probably no need.

 

[HowardGWR]

^^^Glad you are around. Did you notice that the thread title needs correcting? I found out that you can do this by clicking on the thread itself and then use 'thread tools' (top right). Hope that helps.

 

[edwin_m]

^^^Glad you are around. Did you notice that the thread title needs correcting? I found out that you can do this by clicking on the thread itself and then use 'thread tools' (top right). Hope that helps.

Dunno about that. I thought Consulation, being a mixture of "Consultation" and "Consolation", was a good description of Bradford's rail provision.

 

[Bantamzen]

^^^Glad you are around. Did you notice that the thread title needs correcting? I found out that you can do this by clicking on the thread itself and then use 'thread tools' (top right). Hope that helps.

I didn't and I have now!

 

[greyman42]

Bradford Exchange situated just beyond the buffers stops at Bradford Interchanges was closed on the 14th January 1973. Part of the that site is now Bradford Crown Court.
As ever Disused Stations has the detail:
http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/bradford_exchange/index.shtml

It looked like a decent station in its day. Similar to Marylebone. I wonder who decided to pull it down and replace it with the present carbuncle.

 

[thejuggler]

It looked like a decent station in its day. Similar to Marylebone. I wonder who decided to pull it down and replace it with the present carbuncle.

Mr Beeching had his say and closed numerous lines, services declined, freight moved to roads, no need for the vast expanse of freight sidings around Bradford. Passenger numbers declined as car ownership increased. Bradford became a hub station serving Leeds.

It was only a matter of time before the huge, expensive to operate station was redeveloped to provide something more manageable for the number of daily services. In the 70s thats what happened.

Forster Square suffered a similar fate.

 

[Bevan Price]

Yes. Forster Square was too big for current traffic levels, but I think they should have left it on its original site, just reducing the number of platforms. As others comment, the pedestrian approach to the relocated Forster Square is a bit grim and unfriendly, especially at night.

 

[Welshman]

IIRC, the writing was on the wall for the original Forster Square station when Grattan's Mail Order business moved away from the city. I remember in the 1960s picking my way through the concourse between barrows loaded with parcels, ready for transportation on the late-afternoon trains. In particular, there was a 3.40pm express to Carlisle, which conveyed about 2 passenger coaches and a dozen or so parcels vans.

Across the city, Exchange was a fine station in its heyday, but, as a has been mentioned, became too large for the remaining traffic when some of the branch lines, eg. Bradford, Wakefield & Goole via Batley/Morley Top; Bradford & Leeds via Pudsey and Bradford, Halifax/Spen Valley, Huddersfield & Penistone became victims of the Beeching cuts. And the ex GN lines to Halifax and Keighley via Queensbury had already been closed a decade earlier.

This, coupled with the rumour that the road overbridge at the exit of the station was unsafe, led to the building of Interchange on its site just the other side of the bridge. But it was not just a rationalisation exercise. When opened, Interchange was lauded for its bus/rail interchange facilities, boasting extensive servicing/repair facilities under the interchange.

Unfortunately the repair and servicing facilities closed, along with one platform for bus departures/arrivals, and now I gather some services have returned to stopping on the city streets outside the Interchange, leading to the rather reduced site it now is.

 

[Halish Railway]

Bradford Interchange needs to be completely rebuilt with more platforms and a nicer building that might actually attract people and hopefully some more investment.

 

[47802]

Bradford Interchange needs to be completely rebuilt with more platforms and a nicer building that might actually attract people and hopefully some more investment.

Given that's most of interchange services are into the station either from Leeds or Halifax and then out again plus a few GC services why does it need more Platforms?

While it may not be the best Building in the world its got excellent interchange with the Buses and a Greggs what more do you need really.

Foster Square is ok as has been mentioned the approach walkway could do with some improvement, but compared to the old Foster Square which in its latter days made Wakefield Kirkgate look good, its a vast improvement.