Braking

[Mike C]

So do you just thrown and anchor out the back cab when you want to stop or do you just have to time when to take the power off and then coast into stations

No, don't be ridiculous. We use a parachute.

Seriously though - 373 doesn't use a 3-step braking system - there are no discrete "steps" in it's UIC EP system or the rheostatic brake. It's a TGV braking system through and through.

In general, high speed trimming is done by rheo only, bringing the train to a station is done using both until about 40km/h when it's discs n' treads only.

 

[Zoidberg]

I have been wondering for some time about when a train is stopping for a station. How much brake does the driver put on when he/she comes to the braking point for a station? ...

Great question which has resulted in a very interesting thread.

Thank you.

 

[ChristopherJ]

Deleted.

 

[matchmaker]

My only experience of braking a train was shunting ECS at Bridgnorth on the SVR one night. Six corridor coaches with the brakes released with the only brakes available being the air brake on the shunter and the guards handbrake which I had to apply at the right time.

Added to which it was dark, my Bardic was being used as a headlight and all I had to signal the driver with was a paraffin handlamp!

 

[notadriver]

As a coach driver I find it interesting to compare the braking abilities of coaches and trains. My coach driver colleagues don't really appreciate the skill and training it takes to stop a train in the right place even from moderate speeds.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

How heavy is a coach out of interest? 15 tons?

 

[Zoidberg]

How heavy is a coach out of interest? ...

Perhaps as heavy as a coach out of London in the rush hour.

EDIT: where is interest?

 

[notadriver]

Perhaps as heavy as a coach out of London in the rush hour.

EDIT: where is interest?

Yes call it about 15 tons. Bit heavier than the average car

 

[34D]

My only experience of braking a train was shunting ECS at Bridgnorth on the SVR one night. Six corridor coaches with the brakes released with the only brakes available being the air brake on the shunter and the guards handbrake which I had to apply at the right time.

Added to which it was dark, my Bardic was being used as a headlight and all I had to signal the driver with was a paraffin handlamp!

You are joking right? No train brakes? Blummin eck!

How heavy is a coach out of interest? 15 tons?

A coach (as in a bus) would typically be 10 to 15 tonnes, and a coach (as in a railway coach) 30-35 tonnes.

 

[O L Leigh]

You are joking right? No train brakes? Blummin eck!

That's not so unusual. A former Ilford driver of my acquaintance once shunted a 3 x Cl312 formation unbraked with the Ilford depot pilot. Drove the thing over a scotch in the process too.

Way back in the mists of time passenger trains were braked using just the engine brake and guard's handbrake until a couple of accidents forced the Government to require that all passenger trains had brake continuity.

O L Leigh

 

[Wyvern]

And of course, most freight trains were unbraked until relatively recently.

 

[D1009]

And of course, most freight trains were unbraked until relatively recently.

That isn't quite true, they did have brake vans !!

 

[Wyvern]

That's what we're on about.

"passenger trains were braked using just the engine brake and guard's handbrake"

Also, of course, at the top of an incline, the train would stop while the guard set the brakes on a suyitable number of wagons.

 

[CosherB]

The first train I braked was a big S160 2-8-0 freight steam loco with 5 mk1s on the Churnet Valley Railway. Vacuum brakes (the loco's steam brake only used when running light engine) and it did take quite a bit of anticipation. Also, knocking the brake 'off' just before rolling to a halt prevents a jerky stop. Once stopped, full brake is applied of course.

At MoSI we have replica 1830 'Planet' loco. The original had only tender hand brakes. We still have those, but we also have modern air brakes as do the replica 1830s coaches (disk brakes on the tender and leading loco axle, tread brakes on the coaches which are dual air / vacuum braked). These can vary each time you drive; they are much more fierce immediately after maintenance, but again anticipation is the name of the game.

It's especially important to try not to stop short when driving 'Planet' if you are going to reverse direction on the next leg (as we always are at MoSI). she has slip eccentric valve gear, so you have to change the valve gear from foreward to reverse (or vice versa) using the reversing pedal while still on the move so the eccentric dog 'goes in'. If it 'goes in', and you look like you're going to stop short, you can't just open the regulator to keep it going as you'd go the other way! You have to disengage the eccentrics and hand-valve the loco forward on the hand levers (quite a skill) to get it to where you want to stop. Then you can re-engage the eccentrics ready for when it's time to re-start (in the opposite direction).

We also have an RSH 0-4-0 saddle tank 'Agecroft No.1' at MoSI. That is more conventional, with Stehenson Link motion, so much less demanding to drive. That has a loco steam brake and an ejector to drive vacuum brakes on the train. Light engine, the steam brake is used. With the train, a combination system uses vacuum on the train and steam brake on the loco all from the single brake lever.

 

[driver9000]

Aren't they just. I've been on a number of Blackpool to Colne services where the train has come in at around its usual speed and then just carried on. One morning at St Annes it was like the Simpsons starting credits where the bus doesnt stop and the passengers take off after it. About 40-odd people crammed on to the platform near to the overbridge trying to get in the rear door.

The departure wasn't that brisk either, strangely enough.

Had similar at Pleasington as well... but hardly anyone gets on or off there so not nearly as noticable.

St Annes, Lytham and Pleasington are always comparatively bad, even in summer with just a mildly damp railhead, which makes me wonder why nothing more permanent hasnt been done to try and resolve the issues.

Those are areas well known by drivers among others that can give problems with adhesion as is the performance of the 14x fleet on poor railhead. During the 2011 leaf fall period I had more problems starting away than actually stopping the train although 2011 was a better leaf fall period than in previous years. That's not to say I didn't have a few instances of the speedo dropping to 0 and it all going quiet. Some of the things done in 2011 was an increase in vegetation clearing, monitoring, manual laying of sand and rail scrubbing approaching stations on the Blackpool South line along with the daily water jetting train. Lytham often had a member of Network Rail staff out laying sand on the approaches to the station. Extra sandite applicators were placed at various locations too. This year should have the same treatment with the added weapon of Pacers fitted with sanders.

 

[Legzr1]

Also, of course, at the top of an incline, the train would stop while the guard set the brakes on a suyitable number of wagons.

AWB boards - there were still a few dotted around until very recently.

Naturally,stopping to apply wagon brakes very rarely happened on a Friday afternoon

The good old days of Class 9A and 9B trains without brakes or partially fitted head.

When men were men,drivers were drivers,guards got knocked around the van and red signals were only to be obeyed if the driver felt like it