Break of journey

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davews

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Just toying up a few ideas for my planned walk this week on the Thames - basically Hammersmith Bridge to Vauxhall Bridge.

Plan is normal day return to Waterloo (from Martins Heron). Get off at Richmond, tube (contactless, £1.70) to Hammersmith. Do walk.

No sensible eating places near Vauxhall Bridge, but I have eaten before in Horniman at Hays near London Bridge who I see are open and have a proper outside eating area.

So continue my journey broken at Richmond and catch train Vauxhall via Waterloo/Waterloo East to London Bridge (valid for London Terminal tickets), all on my outward ticket.

After lunch catch train back to Waterloo East then Waterloo to home.

I have broken my outward journey and restarted at a station further along the line with three hours or so between them. Will this work or be blocked by an over enthusiastic gateline at Vauxhall?

Simplest way of course is a travel card but that costs more...
 
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Nunners

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Just toying up a few ideas for my planned walk this week on the Thames - basically Hammersmith Bridge to Vauxhall Bridge.

Plan is normal day return to Waterloo (from Martins Heron). Get off at Richmond, tube (contactless, £1.70) to Hammersmith. Do walk.

No sensible eating places near Vauxhall Bridge, but I have eaten before in Horniman at Hays near London Bridge who I see are open and have a proper outside eating area.

So continue my journey broken at Richmond and catch train Vauxhall via Waterloo/Waterloo East to London Bridge (valid for London Terminal tickets), all on my outward ticket.

After lunch catch train back to Waterloo East then Waterloo to home.

I have broken my outward journey and restarted at a station further along the line with three hours or so between them. Will this work or be blocked by an over enthusiastic gateline at Vauxhall?

Simplest way of course is a travel card but that costs more...
It probably won't work in the barriers at Vauxhall, but I wouldn't have thought any staff would have a problem with it (and they definitely shouldn't!). One problem to watch out for is if your ticket is swallowed at Waterloo, so maybe ask to be let through there just in case.
 

davews

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Thanks. The barriers at Waterloo won't swallow it, this is a well tried 'London Terminals' route which I done several times. It will be swallowed at London Bridge though which is as far as you can go on interconnecting terminal stations.

I have decided in the end just to get a travel card, the cost saving is not worth possible problems. For what it is worth, a day return to WAT is £13.55, Travel Card £17.65, Senior Railcard prices. The difference is EXACTLY the sum of one outer zone tube fare and one inner zone one. If you are going to do more than two tube journeys it is always cheaper to get a travel card.

(and when I did the London Loop a couple of years ago I used travel card to the limit - I called it the Zone 6 boundary walk!)
 
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It probably won't work in the barriers at Vauxhall
Vauxhall is in the London Terminals group so there's no problem, it won't be retained or rejected there.

It will be swallowed at London Bridge though which is as far as you can go on interconnecting terminal stations.
I'd be surprised, as you might be coming from Kent intending to carry on to Charing Cross or up as far as City Thameslink.
 

davews

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When you come through Waterloo main station it is a different situation as you go through the gateline there but is an allowed continuation to London Bridge or Cannon Street via Waterloo East and another gateline. Nearly all other terminal stations after you have gone through the gateline there is no other terminal station you can access via the network rail system without using TFL services.

My query on Vauxhall is that I would be breaking my outward journey at Richmond and restarting it at Vauxhall with a gap. Probably would work but a clever barrier might work out what I had done.
 

yorkie

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It is allowed. The barrier will probably allow it, but if it doesn't, please seek staff assistance.

I've used e-tickets extensively at intermediate barriers with no issues lately.

Thanks. The barriers at Waterloo won't swallow it, this is a well tried 'London Terminals' route which I done several times. It will be swallowed at London Bridge though which is as far as you can go on interconnecting terminal stations.
The ticket is actually valid onwards from London Bridge to Canon Street and Blackfriars/City Thameslink.
 

bb21

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There is nothing wrong with missing a chunk in the middle. You just can't go back on yourself and travel over the same section twice, eg. Martins Heron - Richmond - walk - Twickenham - Waterloo
 

Meglos

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I assume you are aware that Hammersmith Bridge is still completely closed (including pedestrians)? The walk on the Surrey side of the Thames is much more enjoyable than the Middlesex side.

If you wanted to walk on the Surrey side then I would suggest travelling via the Hounslow Loop, and getting off at Barnes Bridge. The walk is 1.5 mile from Barnes Bridge to Hammersmith Bridge, compared to 0.5 miles from Hammersmith LT to the Surrey side of the river.
 
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My query on Vauxhall is that I would be breaking my outward journey at Richmond and restarting it at Vauxhall with a gap. Probably would work but a clever barrier might work out what I had done.
Ah, I see. Well, a human will let you through.
 

davews

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Last week was Barnes Bridge to Hammersmith Bridge.... Friday I continue the north bank from there to Vauxhall and I shall have completed all the TFL north bank sections. Yes, the bridge is very well blocked off, have to make sure when I walk down from the tube station I end up at the right side..

(and those of you who know the TFL walks, the Thames ones are unusual in that the legs don't always end up at a tube/bus stop. Section 2 starts at Albert Bridge, which is about as far as you can get from public transport in central London...)
 

Meglos

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Last week was Barnes Bridge to Hammersmith Bridge.... Friday I continue the north bank from there to Vauxhall and I shall have completed all the TFL north bank sections. Yes, the bridge is very well blocked off, have to make sure when I walk down from the tube station I end up at the right side..

(and those of you who know the TFL walks, the Thames ones are unusual in that the legs don't always end up at a tube/bus stop. Section 2 starts at Albert Bridge, which is about as far as you can get from public transport in central London...)
Well done for completing the North Bank walk. Last summer I completed the South Bank from Richmond to Erith Marshes (then followed the River Darent into Dartford, and then Oyster'd back to Waterloo East). 6 very enjoyable walks.
 

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The ticket is actually valid onwards from London Bridge to Canon Street and Blackfriars/City Thameslink.
Indeed, but you wouldn't normally leave the station if so doing. When connecting between Waterloo and Waterloo East you have to exit one station and enter another. If you want to break your journey from SW London to Cannon Street at London Bridge then it's possibly wise to ask to be let out. The same would be true if breaking a Kent to Charing Cross journey at London Bridge.
 

island

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I can confirm from experience that a ticket of this sort will be retained at the barriers at London Bridge, so if you are desirous of continuing your journey later you should ask to be let through.
 

davews

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In this case I will be going to the pub just outside London Bridge so that is the end of my journey.
Presumably since Vauxhall is in the London Terminals group for the same reason as Waterloo East it will accept an outgoing ticket to allow me to continue to another one of the group.
 

Vespa

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Why don't card ticket have a QR code printed on them to scan instead and prevent it being swallowed up.
 

JonathanH

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Why don't card ticket have a QR code printed on them to scan instead and prevent it being swallowed up.
The 'swallowing up' is also a key measure against ticket abuse / fare evasion, something the railway loses somewhat by going to barcode tickets (although I appreciate that scanning the code should also 'cancel' the validity of the ticket).
 

Vespa

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A CCST isn't large enough to carry the correct type of barcode and enough info to make it readable by eye.
A serious redesign of the ticket is needed put QR code on front or the back move the text the opposite side, you've sorted it out and it will still be rejected if invalid anyway, the technology is there already.
 

Bletchleyite

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The 'swallowing up' is also a key measure against ticket abuse / fare evasion, something the railway loses somewhat by going to barcode tickets (although I appreciate that scanning the code should also 'cancel' the validity of the ticket).

No need to swallow it if you can mark it as used electronically. Also solves the issue with people wanting to keep them for expenses and Delay Repay claims.
 

bb21

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A serious redesign of the ticket is needed put QR code on front or the back move the text the opposite side, you've sorted it out and it will still be rejected if invalid anyway, the technology is there already.
That is a hefty investment as you will need to update all the printers across the network and will take a significant amount of time to complete, so unless there is a very good business case for it very unlikely to happen.
 

JonathanH

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No need to swallow it if you can mark it as used electronically. Also solves the issue with people wanting to keep them for expenses and Delay Repay claims.
Even if tickets can be marked as used electronically, it would also be necessary for barrier staff not to wave people through when the barrier refuses their ticket. There is also a litter issue.
 

Haywain

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the technology is there already.
This is an easy get out when you've no interest in whether it's a realistic prospect. The technology may be somewhere but it certainly isn't where it would be needed and therefore, as @bb21 says, would be a hefty investment. After all, it would only mean changing every TVM on the network and every ticket barrier (you'll have noticed that many don't have barcode readers) including every barrier on the underground network.
 

davews

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I think the readers write something on the ticket each time you go through a barrier.
Just booked a table at the Hornimans at Hayes so I have committed. Their website seemed to indicate they were fully booked (and wouldn't accept a booking for one person, minimum 2...) but rang and booked no problem.
 

Vespa

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This is an easy get out when you've no interest in whether it's a realistic prospect. The technology may be somewhere but it certainly isn't where it would be needed and therefore, as @bb21 says, would be a hefty investment. After all, it would only mean changing every TVM on the network and every ticket barrier (you'll have noticed that many don't have barcode readers) including every barrier on the underground network.
Not really a lazy get out statement, its a genuine question, there are already QR scanners at railway ticket barriers, changing the design of the card ticket is the next step, technical yes, impossible no.

Underground ticket barriers can be updated to next generation barriers, they're constantly evolving as technology advances
 

bb21

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Not really a lazy get out statement, its a genuine question, there are already QR scanners at railway ticket barriers, changing the design of the card ticket is the next step, technical yes, impossible no.

Underground ticket barriers can be updated to next generation barriers, they're constantly evolving as technology advances

Practically nothing is impossible if you chuck enough resources at it. But currently the resources may not be there.

With the emphasis on e-tickets and the gradual phasing out of paper tickets, it is not an impossible project but most likely an uneconomical one.
 

py_megapixel

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I think the readers write something on the ticket each time you go through a barrier.
On a magstripe ticket, the data encoded in the magstripe contains the same information as the text printed on the ticket. I don't believe barriers usually change this.

For barcoded tickets, there is a central database which records, among other things, where a particular ticket has been scanned - this is preferred by operators as the data can be used to track possible fraud (i.e. reusing tickets)
 

Haywain

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On a magstripe ticket, the data encoded in the magstripe contains the same information as the text printed on the ticket. I don't believe barriers usually change this.
A few bits of data are written to the magstripe, but only sufficient to identify (loosely) the station at which it was 'read' and the timeband in which it was passed through the barrier. The station ID is 3 characters and do not correlate with the NLC - in many cases I doubt they would even be recognised by staff at the station - and the timeband is in 5 minute 'units'. The data is overwritten the next time the ticket goes through a barrier. In my experience it was useful in identifying tickets that had been submitted for refund but had been through a barrier at a remote station, or those which had been through the barrier at the home station within minutes of being purchased.
 

davews

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Well I am back from my trip.
It didn't quite work out as planned. As you know I had planned to walk from Hammersmith Bridge to Vauxhall Bridge. I got confused with bridges along with various diversions which weren't on the TFL instructions. Ended up going over Chelsea bridge then finding the south bank was totally blocked with the massive housing estate they are building on the old Battersea power station site. No obvious way to get back to the river and eventually emerged on Nine Elms Road. Then I noticed signs pointing to Queenstown Road so headed there where I caught the train to Waterloo.

Gateline refused my london terminals ticket but the woman there let me through without even looking at the ticket. It then worked normally through Waterloo and Waterloo East to London Bridge. Because of all this I was an hour late for my 1pm booked table at Hornimans and the best they could offer me was a small table at the edge of their outdoor serving area which was totally alfresco and by the time I had eaten (excellent by the way) I was decidedly chilly.
 
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