Brexit: Eurostar to axe services and jobs

[contrex]

Story in The Independent:

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel...le-eu-referendum-paris-brussels-a7362441.html

After Marmite, the next institution under threat as a result of Brexit is Eurostar. The train operator is to cut one in 12 services from London St Pancras to Paris and Brussels, due to a “challenging environment”.

In addition, 80 staff are likely to lose their jobs.

Eurostar is expected to reveal which departures will be axed ahead of the new international timetable taking effect in December. If cuts are applied proportionately, two daily trains to Paris and one to Brussels will be removed from the schedules. Because the firm is rolling out new, larger trains, the overall number of seats is unlikely to be affected.

Even though I am a Remain supporter, and should in theory be ruefully happy to read stories showing we are now going to Hell in a handbasket, I am not sure about this. The story says they are keeping the number of seats roughly the same. I suppose the loss of jobs might not have happened if there hadn't been a very British coup in May?

 

[Groningen]

Although this is already talked about in an other thread i want to say this. Reduction in trains, but the seats remain unaffected. If the trains have the same length; this can only mean than there will be less legroom (seats closer gto the next row).

 

[dgl]

Don't forget that they might be including the length of the power cars in the length figure which is something the new trains don't have, there is just a smaller space at each end with the drivers cab and some ancillary stuff.

Sent from my Lumia 625 using Tapatalk

 

[contrex]

If the trains have the same length; this can only mean than there will be less legroom (seats closer gto the next row).

The E320s use all cars for passenger space, 894 to 950 seats, except the end one-third length of the driving cars, whereas the old 1990s E300 TGV-based 750 seat sets have no passenger space in 2 x power cars plus motor sections in each adjacent passenger car.

Eurostar seating plan, with leg room figures here. No mention of different stock so my guess is maybe no difference in leg room?

http://www.eurostar.com/uk-en/travel-info/your-trip/eurostar-seating-plan

 

[yorksrob]

Story in The Independent:

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel...le-eu-referendum-paris-brussels-a7362441.html



Even though I am a Remain supporter, and should in theory be ruefully happy to read stories showing we are now going to Hell in a handbasket, I am not sure about this. The story says they are keeping the number of seats roughly the same. I suppose the loss of jobs might not have happened if there hadn't been a very British coup in May?

Expect Brexit to be wheeled out every time a company decides to make cuts.

 

[contrex]

Expect Brexit to be wheeled out every time a company decides to make cuts.

That doesn't mean it won't be true for some fraction of the cases.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It will be interesting to see what happens with fares on Eurostar with a lower sterling rate.
You'd expect sterling fares to rise and therefore choke off some demand.
But incoming visits will be better value.
So maybe fewer Brits travelling but more French/Belgian/other.

Little of this has percolated through to the economy yet, but it is undoubtedly because of Brexit.

 

[contrex]

Although this is already talked about in an other thread i want to say this. Reduction in trains, but the seats remain unaffected. If the trains have the same length; this can only mean than there will be less legroom (seats closer gto the next row).

For comparison

Economy airline seat pitches
Ryanair 737-800s 762 mm
EasyJet A319/320 737 mm
Monarch between 711 and 737 mm

Eurostar "legroom" figures (I presume this is the seat pitch?)

Business premier; Standard premier
Solo / twin seats 945 mm
Table seat 1945 mm

Standard
Aisle & window seat 845 mm
Table seat 1840 mm

 

[anme]

Expect Brexit to be wheeled out every time a company decides to make cuts.

Expect leavers to deny reality every time something obviously Brexit-related damages the economy. See also what they have to say about the falling value of the pound.

Seriously, though, surely leave supporters will be celebrating this news. Fewer Eurostar services is a concrete sign of Britain becoming more detached from Europe.
- Lower immigration - fewer people coming to the UK.
- British companies becoming less engaged with European markets (and hopefully more engaged with Australia or Kenya or wherever Liam Fox found in his atlas this morning), and European companies becoming less engaged with UK markets.
- Less social and cultural exchange in both directions, as the UK looks more inwards, less towards Europe and perhaps more to elsewhere in the world (although the PM's nationalist rhetoric suggests this isn't a priority). In the long term this will translate into fewer family connections (e.g. British/continental relationships and exchange programmes), fewer British people working in Europe and fewer Europeans working in the UK, less co-operation in science and the arts, less tourism, etc.
- And Brussels is a something of a special case. Fewer British people going to Brussels, and fewer people from Brussels coming to the UK, is a very specific sign of the UK's diminishing influence in Europe, and vice versa.

I'm not being sarcastic and I'm not trying to start a fight about Brexit. But in my understanding, from basic logic and from talking to leave supporters, this is exactly what they voted for. Eurostar is a company that will clearly lose from Brexit. How could it not?

 

[Harbornite]

Brexit is one of the cited reasons, not the only reason. Terrorism and greater capacity on the 374s are also to blame.

 

[duesselmartin]

I wonder how much EU related travel takes place between Brussels and London. It could affect business class (?)

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Will some of the paths get re-used by the potential services to Amsterdam?

 

[MarcVD]

Expect Brexit to be wheeled out every time a company decides to make cuts.

Here we see à case where volume (in this case number of seats offered ) remaining the same but produced with less expenses (in this case number of trains). So we do not have a contraction of the offering because of Brexit but just a cost cutting exercise. It would have taken place even if Brexit did not exist. Of course Brexit is a golden opportunity for Eurostar management to excuse themselves.

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[ChiefPlanner]

Will some of the paths get re-used by the potential services to Amsterdam?

Only 4 trips a day planned - and done by extending existing Brussels paths to AMS.

Even before "Brexit" , which has not happened yet - E* had a dip in loadings due to the security issues and incidents in both France and Belgium. (as well as elsewhere in Europe) - Paris has always been the stronger route in any case and Paris tourism was supposedly 30% down this summer.

In any case - the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet are marketing very hard at the moment. More competition therefore for what may be a sluggish market as far as the UK - Continent optional traffics.

 

[Bald Rick]

A surprisingly high proportion of London - Paris traffic by Eurostar is by non EU tourists, particularly those from North America. This traffic must have taken a downturn after the incidents in Paris.

This adjustment in services isn't because of low cost air competition on the London Paris/Brussels routes: neither EZY or FR fly London to Brussels, and only EZY fly to Paris; 7 times a day split between Gatwick, Luton and Southend. The 'full service' airlines do more, particularly from Heathrow and Londin City.

There is definitely a big market to go at for Amsterdam, and if post Brexit border controls for inbound passengers have to shift to St Pancras, I can see it making a fair dent in the air traffic, although it will need a more frequent service than that currently proposed.

 

[TheKnightWho]

A surprisingly high proportion of London - Paris traffic by Eurostar is by non EU tourists, particularly those from North America. This traffic must have taken a downturn after the incidents in Paris.

This adjustment in services isn't because of low cost air competition on the London Paris/Brussels routes: neither EZY or FR fly London to Brussels, and only EZY fly to Paris; 7 times a day split between Gatwick, Luton and Southend. The 'full service' airlines do more, particularly from Heathrow and Londin City.

There is definitely a big market to go at for Amsterdam, and if post Brexit border controls for inbound passengers have to shift to St Pancras, I can see it making a fair dent in the air traffic, although it will need a more frequent service than that currently proposed.

This could be one of the few positive outcomes of Brexit, with far more possible destinations being viable with no requirements to station UKBA guards at far flung locations. I suspect not what the UK govt. or Brexiteers had in mind, but then again a lack of planning for unforeseen consequences (or more often wilfully ignoring warnings of them) was their strong point.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

This could be one of the few positive outcomes of Brexit, with far more possible destinations being viable with no requirements to station UKBA guards at far flung locations. I suspect not what the UK govt. or Brexiteers had in mind, but then again a lack of planning for unforeseen consequences (or more often wilfully ignoring warnings of them) was their strong point.

I don't think that is going to work.
The inbound Eurostar checks on the continent are for tunnel security rules as much as for immigration.
Luggage has to be scanned before reaching the tunnel.

But in Spain, all luggage is scanned before boarding high-speed services, and it's done painlessly and relatively quickly in a few minutes.
All the main line stations have scanners.
No passport checks though.
So it can be done without the "turfed off at Lille" issue.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As it's security theatre of the highest order, though, I wouldn't encourage its spread beyond the nonsensical use of it on Thalys which smacks of the old saying of "something should be done".

 

[TheKnightWho]

I don't think that is going to work.
The inbound Eurostar checks on the continent are for tunnel security rules as much as for immigration.
Luggage has to be scanned before reaching the tunnel.

But in Spain, all luggage is scanned before boarding high-speed services, and it's done painlessly and relatively quickly in a few minutes.
All the main line stations have scanners.
No passport checks though.
So it can be done without the "turfed off at Lille" issue.

Scanners are much easier to set up, even at relatively small stations, than full-blown border security. They have them at every station in China.

 

[johnnychips]

Scanners are much easier to set up, even at relatively small stations, than full-blown border security. They have them at every station in China.

In Spain and in China it is done in a very desultory fashion. In Beijing I got stopped once as my bag contained a bottle of water, but the same item passed through at least fifty other times unchallenged. I have never seen a bag questioned in Barcelona Sants, except in the left-luggage office, where they seemed very thorough on the three occasions I have used it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In Spain and in China it is done in a very desultory fashion.

It's basically security theatre.

 

[contrex]

Australia or Kenya or wherever Liam Fox found in his atlas this morning

Like it!

 

[TheKnightWho]

It's basically security theatre.

Which is exactly what you need when you need to be seen to be doing something.

They will scan every bag in China on the actual trains (and it's hit-and-miss on the subways).

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Would the demand exist to justify running to Germany using one of the paths used by one of the services being axed?

 

[johnnychips]

Would the demand exist to justify running to Germany using one of the paths used by one of the services being axed?

Are the trains capable of running in Germany?

 

[heart-of-wessex]

I was wondering if using Brexit as a smokescreen to cut costs as previously mentioned. I've read a few times that Eurostar is going down the pan.

There was something recent too in a FlightAware newsletter that a certain airline was blaming Brexit for the loss of profits over the last 6 months...and that was published in June, ONE month after the Brexit announcement and even then we hadn't left the EU straight away.

 

[rf_ioliver]

It's basically security theatre.

And at every metro station (at least in Beijing)...one numerous occasions the staff where either chatting or sleeping...

Bruce Schneier's blog is worth reading on this (he's the originator of the term "security theater"):

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/11/beyond_security.html

t.

Ian

 

[Bletchleyite]

And at every metro station (at least in Beijing)...one numerous occasions the staff where either chatting or sleeping...

You get that all over India too. Most notably the metal detector arches are often not turned on, and they just drag people off to the side randomly, often this is quite discriminatory as they are "lower castes".

I do like that article, sums up my views well. Thanks.

 

[Groningen]

The only problem is between Brussel and Antwerpen, but here are 4 tracks available. It is between Brussel Noord and Brussel Zuid that is overcrowded with trains with 6 tracks.

 

[DaiGog]

The 374s were ordered at a time when growth was strong and forecasts good. This year the domestic UK rail market has seen slowing growth, due in part to the threat of terrorism - so when you consider that Eurostar's core market is between London and the two capitals which have been recent victims of terrorist attacks, it's not surprising that revenue will be down.

I'm a passionate 'Remainer' and am sure that Brexit will also be a factor in this, but will concede that companies may overstate the effects to support other reasons for cutting costs.