Bridge wing wall collapse near Oxford 10/2/23. Debris hit by train.

[Siemens Staines]

I think that this weeks Reading - Guildford block means that there are 5 North Downs 3-car 165 diagrams, instead of the usual 8.

 

[jimm]

You don't need any more people to run a 9 car vs a 5 car though. I can't remember if you do for a 10 car, and if so that's more understandable. But Bristol etc could very easily have had a 9 car swapped for the day into a 5 car, certainly I think it would cause less overcrowding than 5 cars on Oxford with a reduced frequency already have.

There were 9 STP IET schedules yesterday overall, which pretty much filled in all the two hour gaps where trains were normally extended. I cannot find any reference to 1Z03.

At no point did I suggest extra turbos should be found, I am well aware of their scarcity at the moment. It was more a comment that these trains, which are already full and standing at rush hour, will be even more busy.

Try telling that to people travelling to and from Bristol...

All you need to operate an IET between London and Oxford is a driver - but, I repeat, no driver=no train, no matter what you might do with rolling stock allocations.

1Z03 yesterday: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:33999/2023-02-13/detailed

Today 1W03 is reinstated from Paddington, running via Stroud to reach Worcester and Hereford - a change notified at 14.25 this afternoon on GWR Journeycheck.

Full and standing on an Oxford-Didcot shuttle? The odd one calling at Culham on the way to/from Oxford might be stretched for seats between those two stations at 'starting work/going home from the science park' times, but anything setting out from Didcot by the sort of time commuters heading home from Paddington will get there will not be short of capacity.

I think that this weeks Reading - Guildford block means that there are 5 North Downs 3-car 165 diagrams, instead of the usual 8.

Which probably means that Reading depot is using the opportunity to try to deal with faults on as many of its 3-car sets as possible.

 

[infobleep]

A lot of the road overbridges in Oxfordshire have developed 'sag' - presumably ground settlement - accentuated after last summer's heatwave. One wonders how many more are at risk of something similar happening, perhaps exacerbated by vegetation roots. The most recent ground frost in Oxfordshire was the morning of this incident.

Subsidence is definitely a bigger issue last year and this year. Insurance companies are getting what they call a surge year for claims. The hot and dry summer didn't help.

 

[Clarence Yard]

I can understand it might not be possible to reinstate the services, but they could definitely have found some extra 5 cars to couple together, or 9 cars. If they are going to drop frequency they need to increase capacity.

They were 8 short for IET units this morning plus others were displaced. They are also on the edge for crews with the block not helping that position at all.

I’m sure if Control could have found the resources to fill the gaps in Oxford formations, they would have done.

 

[Brissle Girl]

They were 8 short for IET units this morning plus others were displaced. They are also on the edge for crews with the block not helping that position at all.

But I thought there were lots of spare IETs, as we were told that’s what is enabling the withdrawal of the HSTs and replacement with IET diagrams.

 

[irish_rail]

But I thought there were lots of spare IETs, as we were told that’s what is enabling the withdrawal of the HSTs and replacement with IET diagrams.

I think we all know in practice this is most definitely not the case. On paper perhaps, but not in practice. The state of the 9 car 802 fleet at present is pretty appalling in terms of GUs out which doesn't help matters either.

 

[Clarence Yard]

But I thought there were lots of spare IETs, as we were told that’s what is enabling the withdrawal of the HSTs and replacement with IET diagrams.

The current diagrams are “loose” so you will be able to squeeze work into them to free up some more for HST work. There were (pre covid) 81 sets diagrammed a day. At the moment it is 78 sets diagrammed so there are not a lot of units sitting around doing nothing, ready and waiting to be used.

 

[dciuk]

I think we all know in practice this is most definitely not the case. On paper perhaps, but not in practice. The state of the 9 car 802 fleet at present is pretty appalling in terms of GUs out which doesn't help matters either.

What does GUs stand for?

 

[irish_rail]

What does GUs stand for?

Generator Unit. Essentially the engine diesel wise.

 

[robintw]

There seems to be a lot of changing estimates on when the disruption will be over.

A couple of days ago the disruption page on the National Rail website said there would be disruption until the end of Saturday. Yesterday it said disruption would be until the end of today (15th Feb). Now it says disruption until the end of the 21st Feb!

(My Mum is going to be travelling home on Saturday, and we're trying to work out the best thing for her to do)

 

[800301]

You don't need any more people to run a 9 car vs a 5 car though. I can't remember if you do for a 10 car, and if so that's more understandable. But Bristol etc could very easily have had a 9 car swapped for the day into a 5 car, certainly I think it would cause less overcrowding than 5 cars on Oxford with a reduced frequency already have.

There were 9 STP IET schedules yesterday overall, which pretty much filled in all the two hour gaps where trains were normally extended. I cannot find any reference to 1Z03.

At no point did I suggest extra turbos should be found, I am well aware of their scarcity at the moment. It was more a comment that these trains, which are already full and standing at rush hour, will be even more busy.

A 10 car can’t run DOO, only 5 and 9 can, ideally you’d have 2 customer hosts on a 10 but this doesn’t always happen

 

[jimm]

An update from GWR about the situation and Network Rail's plans to stabilise the embankment and bridge.

Following our update on Monday, we’re writing to provide you the latest about the landslip at Cassington Road bridge in Oxfordshire last Friday (10 February) which closed the railway between Oxford and Moreton-in-Marsh.

Network Rail engineers have been on site investigating options to secure the embankment so that the road bridge and railway underneath it can be safely reopened. The land is extremely unstable and currently poses a significant risk to the stability of the bridge.

Detailed design work on fixing the embankment and bridge is being completed and materials have been ordered. From Friday (17 February), sheet piling will start to be installed to reinforce the embankment and the bridge; with the aim of reopening the railway to passengers on Wednesday 22 February, at a cautionary speed.

We are working to safely reopen the road and railway as soon as possible. Until the railway reopens, there is an amended train service operating:

• During peak times, London <–> Worcester train services will continue to divert via Swindon
• A replacement bus service is operating between Oxford and Kingham, calling at Hanborough, Charlbury and Kingham. Kingham is currently being used as the interchange between train and the replacement bus services as it is more suitable for bus traffic.
• A shuttle train service is operating between Worcester/Great Malvern and Charlbury – passengers for onward travel should change at Kingham.

Journey planners are being updated and the replacement bus services are in online journey planners. There also continues to be ticket acceptance in place with Chiltern, CrossCountry, Avanti West Coast, and West Midlands Trains.

For the latest travel information, please visit https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/check-your-journey. We will update you further as we work to reopen the road and railway.

An update from Network Rail, with new photos and a video interview with the programme manager in charge at the site

Network Rail’s team of engineers has been onsite investigating options to stabilise the embankment so that the road bridge and railway underneath it can be safely reopened to traffic. The ground is currently extremely unstable and poses a significant risk to the stability of the road and utilities in the road. The landslide has also exposed a gas main, and works are required to protect the pipeline as well as the ground around it.

Network Rail engineers are now working with specialist civil engineering contractors Balfour Beatty to design and install sheet piling to act as a retaining wall to support the embankment and road and make it safe to undertake long term repairs.

Update on closure of railway between Oxford and Kingham following landslip

Following a wall collapse and landslip at Yarnton near Oxford on Friday evening, part of the railway line between Oxford and Worcester is closed while Network Rail undertakes emergency repairs to the bridge and surrounding land.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

This morning trains are running between Worcester and Hanborough, with buses between there and Oxford - I assume this will be the pattern from now on until the line reopens.

 

[robintw]

I'm rather confused by the updated message on the National Rail website. It says:

Replacement road transport is in operation between Oxford and Hanborough in both directions until further notice.

and then lower down:

Rail replacement coaches do not serve Charlbury station, as there is a load restriction on a local bridge. The rail replacement coach service calls at Nine Acres Lane, Charlbury Village, which is a 10/15 minute walk from the station.

Both quotes from https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/317709.aspx

Surely if the road transport is between Oxford and Hanborough then the buses wouldn't call at Charlbury anyway - as Charlbury is not between Oxford and Hanborough?!

 

[pdeaves]

Surely if the road transport is between Oxford and Hanborough then the buses wouldn't call at Charlbury anyway - as Charlbury is not between Oxford and Hanborough?!

Someone forgot (or didn't know) to update that section when the service pattern altered.

 

[infobleep]

Lucky it is half term or they might have struggled to get buses.

 

[bleeder4]

Bit of a novelty factor here, as it's currently possible to travel non-stop between Worcester and Reading. For example, 1P02 this morning departed Worcester Shrub Hill at 0611 and then ran non-stop through Cheltenham Spa, along the Golden Valley Line and through Swindon, until its next booked stop at Reading at 0746.

A pain for those living along the Cotswold Line I know, but for those of us in Worcester, there is some rare non-stop routing possible at the moment.

 

[cygnus44]

Why have most of the Pad to Oxford services vanished, Is Hanborough not to the north of Oxford it was last time I went there.

 

[Benjwri]

Why have most of the Pad to Oxford services vanished, Is Hanborough not to the north of Oxford it was last time I went there.

They haven't? They've always been about hourly through the day, and still are. The services from the North Cotswold Line, and therefore beyond Hanborough, have been cut short and are terminating at Hanborough, therefore not travelling between Oxford and Paddington.

 

[cygnus44]

They haven't? They've always been about hourly through the day, and still are. The services from the North Cotswold Line, and therefore beyond Hanborough, have been cut short and are terminating at Hanborough, therefore not travelling between Oxford and Paddington.

What about the Oxford to Paddington terminators should be hourly adding to the through Cotswold services Difficult to find anything to Oxford other than via Bicester on the previous few days.

 

[Benjwri]

What about the Oxford to Paddington terminators should be hourly adding to the through Cotswold services Difficult to find anything to Oxford other than via Bicester on the previous few days.

Where are you looking? RTT shows them running hourly, as they have been all week.

 

[Parallel]

Minor point considering the incident but does anyone know why the Worcester/Hereford - Hanborough shuttles aren’t putting in stops at the Oxfordshire halts? IETs have stopped at them previously, and the 06:40 Hereford - Paddington usually has them added on if the Worcester - Didcot Turbo is cancelled.

 

[cygnus44]

Where are you looking? RTT shows them running hourly, as they have been all week.

I am looking on real time trains a few Cotswold services are running via Swindon not Oxford Service to Oxford should be half hourly, not happening.

 

[Benjwri]

I am looking on real time trains a few Cotswold services are running via Swindon not Oxford Service to Oxford should be half hourly, not happening.

Yes, that was what I said. The hourly Oxford terminators are running, however services which reach destination beyond Hanbourough are running between Hanbourough and those destinations, and therefore the service has dropped to hourly at Oxford. A few Worcester trains in the peak have been diverted via Swindon.

It was mentioned upthread, it’s very disappointing and has caused chaos in Oxford at rush hour, but there aren’t the drivers or units to do anything about it.

 

[cygnus44]

Yes, that was what I said. The hourly Oxford terminators are running, however services which reach destination beyond Hanbourough are running between Hanbourough and those destinations, and therefore the service has dropped to hourly at Oxford. A few Worcester trains in the peak have been diverted via Swindon.

It was mentioned upthread, it’s very disappointing and has caused chaos in Oxford at rush hour, but there aren’t the drivers or units to do anything about it.

So where are they then if the trains. are not running

 

[Benjwri]

So where are they then if the trains. are not running

I’m very confused what you’re asking? Oxford gets a half hourly service normally, of those trains:
- Half terminate at Oxford, running London to Oxford. These are running as normal, giving Oxford an hourly service at the moment.
- Half run further West past Oxford on the North Cotswolds Line, giving Oxford another hourly service and running from London to Worcester, Great Malvern etc. these trains are currently only running between Worcester, Great Malvern etc, which obviously therefore means Oxford only has a hourly service when they aren’t running through it, but they are still using trains a train crew.

 

[pdeaves]

I’m very confused what you’re asking? Oxford gets a half hourly service normally, of those trains:
- Half terminate at Oxford, running London to Oxford. These are running as normal, giving Oxford an hourly service at the moment.
- Half run further West past Oxford on the North Cotswolds Line, giving Oxford another hourly service and running from London to Worcester, Great Malvern etc. these trains are currently only running between Worcester, Great Malvern etc, which obviously therefore means Oxford only has a hourly service when they aren’t running through it, but they are still using trains a train crew.

I think the point cygnus44 is trying to make is, why are there no additional hourly London-Oxford trains running in the paths of those that would normally run through? There must be crew and stock available to do this, albeit not running end to end.

I think.

 

[Birmingham]

There must be crew and stock available to do this

Must there?

 

[Benjwri]

I think the point cygnus44 is trying to make is, why are there no additional hourly London-Oxford trains running in the paths of those that would normally run through? There must be crew and stock available to do this, albeit not running end to end.

I think.

Definitely isn’t the stock, if you crack JourneyCgeck today at least 2 IET diagrams are short formed down to 5 cars from 9, if they had spare trains they would use them on this.

With the current union issues I am nearly 100% sure there are also not enough crews to run extra services.

Last week they did run a few, so that suggests they aren’t now because they can’t.

 

[cygnus44]

So just down to the woefully poor state of the railways today, Keep pushing customers away with poor excuses for bad service and we will have Beeching Mark 2 to deal with.

 

[Benjwri]

So just down to the woefully poor state of the railways today, Keep pushing customers away with poor excuses for bad service and we will have Beeching Mark 2 to deal with.

Don’t think a line being blocked for weeks is necessarily somethig the railways should be expected to deal with. In fact to have the drivers and stock available at any time to run the services would arguably be an extraordinary waste of money.