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Bridge wing wall collapse near Oxford 10/2/23. Debris hit by train.

cygnus44

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Don’t think a line being blocked for weeks is necessarily somethig the railways should be expected to deal with. In fact to have the drivers and stock available at any time to run the services would arguably be an extraordinary waste of money.
So who is going to run the service if Drivers and Stock are discarded to prevent a waste of money

If the railways are not expected to repair the railway who does

Surely this line won’t be blocked for weeks due to a few bricks falling from a bridge, this was.not a major landslide like the one at Hook.
 
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Benjwri

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So who is going to run the service if Drivers and Stock are discarded to prevent a waste of money

If the railways are not expected to repair the railway who does
The railway should have enough drivers and stock to run normal services, not tons of extra ones for exceptional circumstances.

Surely this line won’t be blocked for weeks due to a few bricks falling from a bridge, this was.not a major landslide like the one at Hook.
Currently expected till the 21st, the birdge was repaired quickly, but the labs around it is very unstable and risks more falling on the line.
 

Chris M

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Surely this line won’t be blocked for weeks due to a few bricks falling from a bridge, this was.not a major landslide like the one at Hook.
If it was just "a few bricks falling from a bridge" the line would be unblocked as soon as they were removed and it was verified that no more will fall, likely a few hours at most. That this has not happened means that things are not that simple. Indeed if you read the latest update from Network Rail you'll see that this has the potential to be a landslip as serious as Hook (albeit less extensive) and making sure that this doesn't happen has required specialist civil engineers to design a long-term solution. Network Rail say that the design has been completed and the materials to construct it are on order. While they are waiting for the materials they will be planning the construction so that it can be done safely without injuring (or worse) the workforce, disrupting the railway further or damaging the gas main. They will also be arranging for the engineers required to construct it to be available, which will almost certainly involve other jobs being postponed, which will need to be rearranged - hopefully without any of the delayed works meaning landslips or other problems occur elsewhere before preventative measures could be implemented.
The alternative is to not do any of that and just hope that everybody is lucky and there is no repeat of something like Stonehaven.
 

Doctor Fegg

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If this had been a Road it would have been back open in hours

⛔️
ROAD CLOSURE There remains a road closure between #BurleighRoad / #YarntonRoad #Cassington and #RuttenLane / #CassingtonRoad #Yarnton in both directions due to Emergency Rail Bridge Works. #OxonTravel
 

InOban

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If it was just "a few bricks falling from a bridge" the line would be unblocked as soon as they were removed and it was verified that no more will fall, likely a few hours at most. That this has not happened means that things are not that simple. Indeed if you read the latest update from Network Rail you'll see that this has the potential to be a landslip as serious as Hook (albeit less extensive) and making sure that this doesn't happen has required specialist civil engineers to design a long-term solution. Network Rail say that the design has been completed and the materials to construct it are on order. While they are waiting for the materials they will be planning the construction so that it can be done safely without injuring (or worse) the workforce, disrupting the railway further or damaging the gas main. They will also be arranging for the engineers required to construct it to be available, which will almost certainly involve other jobs being postponed, which will need to be rearranged - hopefully without any of the delayed works meaning landslips or other problems occur elsewhere before preventative measures could be implemented.
The alternative is to not do any of that and just hope that everybody is lucky and there is no repeat of something like Stonehaven.
Where's the like button?

BTW is the repair entirely down to NR or is the local authority at least partly responsible?
 

Benjwri

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If this had been a Road it would have been back open in hours
I used live near the area, and about 5 years ago a road had a similar issue. I can confirm it was not open in hours, in fact it took about 2 months for it to fully reopen.
 

Chris M

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BTW is the repair entirely down to NR or is the local authority at least partly responsible?
I would expect that will depend on who owns the bridge, the land that has slipped and whether something like road maintenance caused or contributed to the slip. If there has been a bridge at this location since the railway was built then it is most likely Network Rail who own it, if it post-dates the railway then it could be either. I don't know the answers to the other two points.
 

The Planner

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I would expect that will depend on who owns the bridge, the land that has slipped and whether something like road maintenance caused or contributed to the slip. If there has been a bridge at this location since the railway was built then it is most likely Network Rail who own it, if it post-dates the railway then it could be either. I don't know the answers to the other two points.
That could well be part of the initial arguments, who owns what and who is going to fix it.
 

InOban

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The failed brick wing wall is clearly more recent than the original bridge.
 

cygnus44

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Everything is bodged up that’s why the system is failing. Last time anything was built properly Victoria was Monarch
 

swt_passenger

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Last time anything was built properly Victoria was Monarch
I think it’s been noted before that there are many railway embankments around the country of very dubious quality, still standing more by luck than sound design.
 

DelW

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Everything is bodged up that’s why the system is failing. Last time anything was built properly Victoria was Monarch

I think it’s been noted before that there are many railway embankments around the country of very dubious quality, still standing more by luck than sound design.
Most of which were built in the Victorian era, of course (understandably since analytical methods for calculation of slope stability hadn't been developed at that time).
 

Undaunted

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If this had been a Road it would have been back open in hours
I had to smile at this comment. Less than 15 miles from the home town of the poster is a road in Finchampstead called Wellingtonia Avenue It suffered subsidence over a short distance in April 2021. It remained closed until autumn 2022 (November, I think) while a solution was designed and implemented. I think what Network Rail has achieved at Hook is quite remarkable, especially considering the works that were designed and implemented to allow trains to run over two lines. I am sure that the bridge at Yarnton will be dealt with just as efficiently.
 

Annetts key

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Interesting to see in the photo from the second Network article (link) that the other wing wall on the other side does not look to be in very good condition.
Things you don’t want include not having trees or large bushes growing at the top, or the bottom.

I would expect that will depend on who owns the bridge, the land that has slipped and whether something like road maintenance caused or contributed to the slip. If there has been a bridge at this location since the railway was built then it is most likely Network Rail who own it, if it post-dates the railway then it could be either. I don't know the answers to the other two points.
It’s sometimes surprising who owns a bridge. I know of a (public) road over railway bridge that is owned by the ministry of defence…
 

jimm

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Why have most of the Pad to Oxford services vanished, Is Hanborough not to the north of Oxford it was last time I went there.

I am looking on real time trains a few Cotswold services are running via Swindon not Oxford Service to Oxford should be half hourly, not happening.

I think the point cygnus44 is trying to make is, why are there no additional hourly London-Oxford trains running in the paths of those that would normally run through? There must be crew and stock available to do this, albeit not running end to end.

I think.

Is it too hard to grasp that most of the trains to and from the Cotswold Line that are currently 'missing' between London and Oxford are normally operated by train crew based at Worcester?

And that operating the shuttle service between Worcester (and Malvern/Hereford on some trains) and Hanborough on Friday involved four IET sets, plus the crews to cover 18 hours of operations and probably a pilot on board between Charlbury and Hanboorough as well.

Sufficient resources, whether human or rolling stock, weren't available yesterday, so the shuttle had to be cut back to operating between Worcester and Moreton-in-Marsh only. It is running to Hanborough again today.

Where do you think IETs - and spare crews during a school half-term week when one or two GWR staff will be on holiday - are going to come from to fill in between Oxford and Paddington? Please enlighten us.

The failed brick wing wall is clearly more recent than the original bridge.
Everything is bodged up that’s why the system is failing. Last time anything was built properly Victoria was Monarch
It's clear is it? I'd suggest not, as it looks pretty much like all of the bridges along the Cotswold Line constructed to Brunel's designs in the late 1840s and early 1850s, whether built from brick or stone.

Plenty of them have needed running repairs to the masonry down the years - Victorian brick-making and mortar were not infallible, never mind embankment construction. Several have been replaced, including two between Moreton-in-Marsh and Kingham in the past few years, due to the arches over the track showing signs of weakening, which can probably be forgiven after 170 years.
 
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Annetts key

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It's clear is it? I'd suggest not, as it looks pretty much like all of the bridges along the Cotswold Line constructed to Brunel's designs in the late 1840s and early 1850s, whether built from brick or stone.

Plenty of them have needed running repairs to the masonry down the years - Victorian brick-making and mortar were not infallible, never mind embankment construction. Several have been replaced, including two between Moreton-in-Marsh and Kingham in the past few years, due to the arches over the track showing signs of weakening, which can probably be forgiven after 170 years.
As I understand it, mortar should be softer than the brick or stone that it is being used with. And hence will need to be replaced over time. There are various grades and types of brick. Certainly some ‘modern’ (1960s) bricks as used for part of the walls and the boundary walls in my parents former house were suffering from spalling.

I know that substantial railway structures in modern times use very hard, very dense ‘engineering’ bricks. Having had to fix equipment to such bricks, drilling them is similar to drilling solid concrete and requires very good masonry drill bits and a very good hammer drill. But even walls and structures using these needs some maintenance.
 

jimm

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Network Rail has just posted an update to say that the temporary repairs have been completed as planned and that trains will be able to operate between Hanborough and Oxford tomorrow morning. There will be a 20mph speed limit in place past the bridge. Photo is by Network Rail.

Yarnton road over rail bridge following repairs.png
 
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AndrewE

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Interesting to see in the photo from the second Network article (link) that the other wing wall on the other side does not look to be in very good condition.
Things you don’t want include not having trees or large bushes growing at the top, or the bottom.
That is an interesting link. I wonder if the bridge itself is stable but just the abutment walls (and the approach banks) are weak?
If so, given that the line has been singled, what would it take to slew it to the centre so that trains can run through at slow speed and reinstate the rail service?
 

FGW_DID

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This is just the first phase, which was do enough to get the line reopened, albeit with the 20MPH ESR. Once the next phase is complete then that should enable full line speed.
 

Annetts key

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I suppose its a circumstance of 'have to destroy to create'.
Not saying it’s wrong, just surprised it took so long to do this, if this was the best option.

Haven't a number of interlocking sheet piles just been put in, in line with the roadway?
Compare the earlier photos with this recent one. Wing/retaining walls are erected/constructed for a reason. The interlocking sheet piles are not in the same place/same alignment as the brick wing/retaining wall was.

If the bridge itself is closed to road traffic vehicles and is in good enough condition, I wonder if they will further raise the temporary speed restriction to a higher speed.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Compare the earlier photos with this recent one. Wing/retaining walls are erected/constructed for a reason. The interlocking sheet piles are not in the same place/same alignment as the brick wing/retaining wall was.
Looks to me like the (newly inserted?) interlocking sheet piles are primarily to prevent the roadway (that leads over the bridge) from collapsing now that the previously adjacent embankment/brickwork has been removed.

Happy to be corrected if that's not actually the case.
 

BrianW

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Network Rail has just posted an update to sat that the temporary repairs have been completed as planned and that trains will be able to operate between Hanborough and Oxford tomorrow morning. There will be a 20mph speed limit in place past the bridge. Photo is by Network Rail.

View attachment 129494
Thank you <jimm> for posting this helpful photo and associated words. It seems it took a week (Friday evening 10 Feb to Friday evening) to assess and plan the work together with Balfour Beatty and til now (Tuesday 21st) to carry it out.

I sense that, as with the Carmont landslip this will prompt a lot more inspections, hopefully more than just visual- there must be technology to help! At least here no-one died. I hope this will give impetus to a greater assessment of risks including more regular and if need be intrusive inspection and related assessments.
 

jimm

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Looks to me like the (newly inserted?) interlocking sheet piles are primarily to prevent the roadway (that leads over the bridge) from collapsing now that the previously adjacent embankment/brickwork has been removed.

Happy to be corrected if that's not actually the case.
The root of the entire problem was what was going on within the embankment that supports the road. A photo published by Network Rail last week showed they were also taking away lots of soil at the other side. Earth movement in the embankment was what pushed out the bridge wing wall on to the track. The overbridge structure itself is sound and it is expected to reopen to road traffic later next week.
 

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