Brief encounter with the British Transport Police

[adambro]

Had a quick trip out from Huddersfield yesterday.

1016 TPE 185 Huddersfield to Manchester Piccadilly.
1118 TPE 185 Manchester Piccadilly to Sheffield.
1321 Virgin Voyager Sheffield to Leeds.
1425 TPE 185 Leeds to Huddersfield.
1513 Northern Pacer Huddersfield to Honley.

My first trip on South TransPennine, quite a nice route over the pennines. But also had my first encounter with the BTP. I was the subject of a Stop and Search under Section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000 at Manchester. Suppose it was going to happen eventually, how often I'm at stations. Pretty annoying though, I was just stood looking at the departure boards waiting for my train.

 

[westcoaster]

that stop and search thing i think is a good idea, just puts peace to mind, not happened to me but could think it would be annoying if you were trying to get anywhere fast, and you get collered.

 

[adambro]

I was left with the impression that I should feel grateful for them inconveniencing me. I'd prefer if they made more target searches based on intelligence. I find it shocking that the law allows anyone to be stopped without requiring the offers to have any suspicions whatsoever.

 

[Coxster]

On work experience myself and the fellow student came outof the SWT training centre and despite walking along together, the anti-terror police were only interested in the other student! Where's the logic in that? Surely if we were suspicious in the sense of being two under 16s walking out of an official building then both of us would be potential "baddies"?

 

[eos]

Quote:-I was the subject of a Stop and Search under Section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000 at Manchester

...How long were you delayed, were you alone, and were you subject to personal searches or just bags and pockets.?

 

[richa2002]

I don't think they should be searching your ordinary white, rail enthusiast. Anyone suspicious is most probably going to be of Asian or African origin but of course if they only targetted them they would be accused of discrimination.

 

[devon_metro]

I don't think they should be searching your ordinary white, rail enthusiast. Anyone suspicious is most probably going to be of Asian or African origin but of course if they only targetted them they would be accused of discrimination.

I don't even know how you could post such a thing... :roll:

But I 100% agree!

 

[SPS]

I don't think they should be searching your ordinary white, rail enthusiast. Anyone suspicious is most probably going to be of Asian or African origin but of course if they only targetted them they would be accused of discrimination.

And I suppose the IRA are the "forgotten" terrorists.....?

 

[gordonthemoron]

I got stopped by police at Waterloo International at the end of 2005 on the way to Germany. The muppet seemed to be suspicious that I would want to take the train rather than flying. Aside from the fact that the governent keeps telling us not to fly, some of us actually prefer to use the train.

 

[Daniel]

Ive been searched under the terrorism act at London Bridge a couple of years back. The reason given was acting suspiciously, later described as photoing a train.

 

[matt]

I got stopped at New Street the other week and had my bag searched under the section 44(2) of the anti-terrorism act.

 

[Tom]

Section 44 of the Terrorism Act - Power to stop and search

44. - (1) An authorisation under this subsection authorises any constable in uniform to stop a vehicle in an area or at a place specified in the authorisation and to search-

• (a) the vehicle;

• (b) the driver of the vehicle;

• (c) a passenger in the vehicle;

• (d) anything in or on the vehicle or carried by the driver or a passenger.

(2) An authorisation under this subsection authorises any constable in uniform to stop a pedestrian in an area or at a place specified in the authorisation and to search-

• (a) the pedestrian;

• (b) anything carried by him.

(3) An authorisation under subsection (1) or (2) may be given only if the person giving it considers it expedient for the prevention of acts of terrorism.
(4) An authorisation may be given-

• (a) where the specified area or place is the whole or part of a police area outside Northern Ireland other than one mentioned in paragraph (b) or (c), by a police officer for the area who is of at least the rank of assistant chief constable;

• (b) where the specified area or place is the whole or part of the metropolitan police district, by a police officer for the district who is of at least the rank of commander of the metropolitan police;

• (c) where the specified area or place is the whole or part of the City of London, by a police officer for the City who is of at least the rank of commander in the City of London police force;

• (d) where the specified area or place is the whole or part of Northern Ireland, by a member of the Royal Ulster Constabulary who is of at least the rank of assistant chief constable.

(5) If an authorisation is given orally, the person giving it shall confirm it in writing as soon as is reasonably practicable.

 

[adambro]

In response to a couple of the comments. I was on my own, I guess it took about 5 minutes so not too long really. All they were interested in doing was looking through my backpack.

The figures tend to suggest they focus on people from an ethnic minority. I'm a white 19 year old so guess the chance of me being stopped is lower, the stats would suggest that anyway.

What I find weird is how they don't have to have any suspicion that you might pose a threat. One of the officers described the searches as random but who would believe that! I suspect your grandmother is not going to be stopped. I think the official line is that they are intelligence led.

Maybe I was chosen because being white I help to balance out the statistics.

I guess it might not be the last time I get stopped, as I said before its not easy to avoid stations if you go on trains! If it happens again, I won't be telling them anymore than the law requires me too. You don't have to tell them your name or address.

I am curious as to what they do with the names and address of guys like me who have committed no offence, nor been under suspicion of doing so.

I would think your more likely to be stopped if your standing on a platform taking photos or whatever but as I said before, I was watching the departure boards like any other passenger. No appearance of being a rail enthusiast.

 

[richa2002]

And I suppose the IRA are the "forgotten" terrorists.....?

Not at all. I don't get the impression at the moment though that they are much of a threat. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Jim]

I had that a few weeks back at Soton Central, but wasn't acting like a trainspotter at all.(By hampshire poilce) Were you given a "C12" after the search, I was, I:
A)Carry it around with me all the time, to prove I am not a terrorist
B)Still can't belive they could not spell Trowbridge
C)Am glad they didn;t want to look on my camera, as I had Wessie interior shots on there
D)I did actually tell them I was a trainspotter, didn;t seem to make any difference at all!

 

[SPS]

Not at all. I don't get the impression at the moment though that they are much of a threat. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Have you got the foggiest idea how many terrorist plots are foiled without the public knowing? I picked the IRA as people have heard of them. Foiled plots have involved white, black, asian, oriental and people of many other origins. If anybody, regardless of their race is seen to be acting suspiciously, they will be dealt with. You highlighting those of Asian and African origin would be a product of some sort of personal discrimination - its certainly not based on facts.

 

[WessexWarrior]

I think I've been stopped once, but it wasn't a big deal.

Just after the attempted terrorist attacks on the Underground in July 2005, a very large Muslim man got on a Tube train I was on with two huge bags. He then proceeded to announce he 'wasn't dangerous' and unpacked the bags for everyone to see, which in retrospect was very good of him, and also, pretty funny.

 

[Coxster]

If it happens again, I won't be telling them anymore than the law requires me too. You don't have to tell them your name or address.

Would that not just be making yourself suspicious and that you have something to hide?

 

[yorkie]

Can you refuse to co-operate without a solicitor present? If you refuse, what do they do? Force you?

Also, how much detail did they look at things in your bag? did they do stuff like analyse what the filling in a sandwich was, or check out what your drink was, or check what tickets you had to see where you might be going, or anything like that?

Also, what happens if they make you miss your train, especially if you're on an advance purchase ticket.

 

[Jim]

Can you refuse to co-operate without a solicitor present? If you refuse, what do they do? Force you?

Also, how much detail did they look at things in your bag? did they do stuff like analyse what the filling in a sandwich was, or check out what your drink was, or check what tickets you had to see where you might be going, or anything like that?

Also, what happens if they make you miss your train, especially if you're on an advance purchase ticket.

I know you were not asking me, but I will answer as well
When I got searched, I told them
a)How many sandwiches I had, & what was in them, when he started my bag
b)How much cash I had (I had just counted it
c)Where I was off to
d)I was a trainspotter

It only took them 5 minutes, and is it not recommended that you turn uo to the station 10 Min's before travel, it is unlikely they would do a search when you are too far away from the BTP office, as that would be too far for you to walk.

I believe you can be detained for not letting them do it, be arrested under the terrorism act 2000, 1 of the most flaud acts ever passed, like last week when they got searched in Birmingham, they apparently were going to "Abduct a member of the army", that isn't terrorism though is it?

I however get the feeling yorkie, you seem to not want this country to be safe, all these doubts you are making about what they should & shouldn't have done, would you prefer if they didn't search anyone, on the off chance they were a trainspotter

 

[devon_metro]

I believe they planned to torture or execute the army officor.

 

[Jim]

I believe they planned to torture or execute the army officor.

Which is not terrorism in my dictionarry

 

[66526]

My opinion is that anycrime where your desire has been to frighten people is terrorism. May be ona a small scale such as threatening to punch someone or on a much larger scale such as July 7th. Still terrorism IMO.

 

[CallySleeper]

It's Manchester you could have been carrying anything

 

[CallySleeper]

Hi adambro, I have messaged you regarding this just to clear a few things up.