BRIGHTLINE Miami to Orlando

[ac6000cw]

Sort of, except instead of the locomotive being an electro-diesel the pantograph (and I presume transformer) are on the carriage.

That's my understanding too.

Yes - it staggers me every time I go there and see the juxtaposition of level crossings and road junctions, etc. US rail safety culture is very different - take, for example, the four horn blasts code for a train approaching a crossing - this is something that the UK has not adopted (there is no mandate to sound horns for AHBs here, unless specifically stated), yet, even in urban areas, a large proportion of railways in the US are unfenced - contradictions are everywhere.

I think it's just historical evolution - like most countries (the UK being a major exception), when railways were first built in the US, no fencing and open crossings were the norm, hence the practice of using the whistle/horn as a warning. Over time in the US, with increasing speeds and frequency of both road & rail traffic, some of the busier crossings got 'flagmen' stationed at them (the equivalent of a crossing keeper). Then when technology developed in the early 20th century the 'flagmen' slowly got replaced with automated crossing warnings starting in about 1910 e.g. the 'magnetic flagman' wig-wag in the photo below at a museum (the red lamp swings side-to-side and the bell tolls). But the rules about sounding the whistle/horn remained. Whereas in the UK we replaced fully gated crossings (which didn't need whistle/horn warnings) with automatic crossings, so I assume we just carried on the historical situation re. trains sounding an audible warning.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/C4BU6b] OERM - Magnetic Flagmen at Rest by ac6044cw, on Flickr[/URL]

 

[Backroom_boy]

Brightline is privately owned, both the track and trains. How long would Borders have taken if First Group had been expected to finance the infrastructure and the new trains? Would it have ever happened?

At one point it was expected Virgin Group would invest in the project and the operator would be known as Virgin Trains USA, that fell through with Brightline claiming the Virgin wouldn't provide the agreed investment money and Virgin suing Brightline for Brightline terminating the contract.

Virgin have just won this, so Fortress will probably have any profit wiped out on Brightline paying the settlement.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Virgin have just won this, so Fortress will probably have any profit wiped out on Brightline paying the settlement.

Damages still to be announced, and it might go to appeal.
Decided in London, apparently.

MSN

A Virgin company has won a High Court fight with an American train operator which pulled out of a deal after alleging the “Virgin brand” had stopped being a “brand of international high repute”.
Virgin Enterprises said Brightline Holdings was in breach of a trademark licence agreement.
Brightline disputed Virgin Enterprises’ claim.

A judge on Thursday ruled in favour of Virgin Enterprises.
Judge Mark Pelling said, in a written ruling, that Brightline had “failed to prove” issues “it had to prove”.
The judge, who oversaw a High Court hearing in the Rolls Building, in London, in July, indicated that decisions about damages would be made at a later date.
He was told that Virgin Enterprises wanted around £200 million damages.

 

[riceuten]

Press have long reported the number of fatalities on Brightline. Most of these are on level crossings.

I've seen a fair few Americans state that these trains are "dangerous" and should be stopped

*Head/hands*

 

[Harpers Tate]

There were two fatalities on the same level crossing in Melbourne Fl recently. In both cases, nearby CCTV cameras captured the incidents. They are (or were, last week) available to watch on local news websites and in both cases, there is a clear and unambiguous action by the vehicle's driver to avoid the fully functioning lights and half-barriers and in both cases, they had to pass another vehicle that was already stationary in order to do so. Personally, I feel no sympathy for these drivers. Rather, I feel sympathy for the train users who would have been delayed by several hours after each incident and for the company.

(skip to about 1:20) is one of these. Look top left.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Here's a cab video of an incident on Brightline from 2022 where the car driver drove around the barrier.

 

[najaB]

Personally, I feel no sympathy for these drivers. Rather, I feel sympathy for the train users who would have been delayed by several hours after each incident and for the company.

In one of the cases, a passenger in the vehicle also died. I do have sympathy for them.

 

[eldomtom2]

Unfortunately rail safety culture in the US is very poor and it is highly unlikely that there will be any attempt to improve crossing safety.

 

[Bald Rick]

Unfortunately rail safety culture in the US is very poor and it is highly unlikely that there will be any attempt to improve crossing safety.

Yet there has been for brightline. Lots of level crossing upgrades and closures.

 

[eldomtom2]

Yet there has been for brightline. Lots of level crossing upgrades and closures.

To some extent, but the culture is still very much "all blame falls on the driver, there isn't a need to investigate how crossings could be made more safe".

 

[Bald Rick]

To some extent, but the culture is still very much "all blame falls on the driver, there isn't a need to investigate how crossings could be made more safe".

If that were true, why did Brightline spend lots of their shareholders’ dollars on makign level crossing more safe?

 

[najaB]

To some extent, but the culture is still very much "all blame falls on the driver, there isn't a need to investigate how crossings could be made more safe".

And when people are driving around both other vehicles and closed gates, and past flashing lights and end up getting hit, is that much of a surprise?

 

[Taunton]

Brightline did the minimum to bring the crossings up to FRA required standards for the speeds envisaged. There are still (as apparent in the videos) half barrier crossings in a major urban area.

The crossings closed tended to be the minor trivial ones, with dirt roads etc, which may previously not have had any crossing controls at all.

Note the forward video from the train has no classic American Long-Long-Short-Long whistle for the crossing. This is at the legal imposition of adjacent communities who "don't like the noise". In this particular case it is where it would be a distinct advantage, the train emerging at speed from behind the rear of the freight train on the adjacent track, which looks like it may be stopped just clear of the crossing. In the USA it is common for the railroads to not care if trains just stop clear of crossings for extended periods with the lights continuing to flash - the Southern Pacific used to do this in urban Los Angeles for hours while they switched a siding. The stopped train brakeman was meant to go back and handsignal cars over the crossing, though that quite often didn't happen.

The number of Brightline fatalities is well into three figures now, after just a few years running. Apparently it's one death for every 32,000 miles of train mileage, far and away the worst record in the USA. Some of their engineers have experienced multiple fatalities.

 

[eldomtom2]

And when people are driving around both other vehicles and closed gates, and past flashing lights and end up getting hit, is that much of a surprise?

I would point you, for instance, to recent RAIB investigations where "blame" should fall on the train driver, but the RAIB have sensibly looked into other factors as well.

 

[Harpers Tate]

One might argue that a properly functioning crossing (half barriers, lights) is not unsafe.

 

[railfan99]

One might argue that a properly functioning crossing (half barriers, lights) is not unsafe.

Yes, it's standard around the world.

 

[Taunton]

Yes, it's standard around the world.

Perhaps we can be shown a half-barrier crossing on an 80mph double track line in Britain in a dense urban area with road junctions all around ...

 

[najaB]

Perhaps we can be shown a half-barrier crossing on an 80mph double track line in Britain in a dense urban area with road junctions all around ...

The UK is a poor example to use when looking at standards globally. We're one of the few (the only?) country that completely segregates the railway.

 

[Backroom_boy]

Brightline junctions can be a confusing mess of indistinct stop lines and priorities from what I've seen online. I know our instinct on here is to blame the road users but the accident rate is unsustainable if they are going to improve the service let alone increase frequency. If road users aren't changing their behaviour after well over 100 fatalities then the junctions themselves need to change .

 

[eldomtom2]

One might argue that a properly functioning crossing (half barriers, lights) is not unsafe.

Safety is not binary.

The UK is a poor example to use when looking at standards globally. We're one of the few (the only?) country that completely segregates the railway.

And we're also one of the safest for staff, passengers, and the general public.

 

[stuu]

Brightline junctions can be a confusing mess of indistinct stop lines and priorities from what I've seen online. I know our instinct on here is to blame the road users but the accident rate is unsustainable if they are going to improve the service let alone increase frequency. If road users aren't changing their behaviour after well over 100 fatalities then the junctions themselves need to change .

There's nothing ambiguous about a gate across the road and (lots of) flashing red lights. If people are deliberately choosing to ignore those and drive around them, then I don't see how the railway is to blame. If the fatalities are all at a few locations then there may need to be something done.

But looking on Google Maps/streetview what is pretty astonishing is just how many grade crossings there are. I wouldn't be surprised if they go into three figures, there's absolutely nowhere in the UK and probably not in Europe that comes close to that frequency. So when you have that many crossings, plus impatient drivers, then it's not surprising the total number of accidents is so high.

 

[najaB]

And we're also one of the safest for staff, passengers, and the general public.

True. But every safety measure has a cost. There may be merit to the opinion that we spend too much on safety.

 

[Taunton]

There's nothing ambiguous about a gate across the road and (lots of) flashing red lights.

Here we go. Urban Palm Beach, on Brightline.

Google Maps

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www.google.com

Simple AHB half barrier. No proper gate or full barriers. Visibility vegetation not cut back. Simplistic sign "trains may exceed 80mph". Road junction 2 car lengths beyond crossing.

The most telling thing is there's nothing like this incidence of accidents on the longer-established Florida State Tri-Rail commuter line, just a few blocks parallel to the west.

 

[najaB]

Simple AHB half barrier. No proper gate or full barriers. Visibility vegetation not cut back. Simplistic sign "trains may exceed 80mph". Road junction 2 car lengths beyond crossing.

Do the lights flash and the barriers come down sufficiently in advance of a train arriving to allow drivers to stop?

Given that it's no more than 250m from a road junction on approach, and it's a 30mph zone, I suspect that the answer is "Yes".

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

maps.app.goo.gl

 

[eldomtom2]

True. But every safety measure has a cost. There may be merit to the opinion that we spend too much on safety.

Maybe - but "more people will die, but we'll save money" will be an extremely hard sell to staff, passengers, and the public in general.

 

[najaB]

Maybe - but "more people will die, but we'll save money" will be an extremely hard sell to staff, passengers, and the public in general.

There's that, but by the same token "We would like to [ improvement or enhancement] but it's too expensive because [thing] is prohibited in the UK despite it being common practice around the world." doesn't win any fans either.

 

[Beebman]

The opening of Brightline has inspired me to do some general bucket list ticking-off in Florida this week and having spent some time in Orlando I travelled to Miami today on the 11:50 (which ran 30 minutes late throughout due to "a delay on the train's previous journey"). When passing through any built-up area north of West Palm Beach the locomotive horn seemed to be sounding almost continuously. However once West Palm Beach was reached there was no further sounding of the horn and I noticed that roads approaching crossings had signs with 'No Train Horn' on them. Is this a noise abatement thing for residents?

 

[Taunton]

The opening of Brightline has inspired me to do some general bucket list ticking-off in Florida this week and having spent some time in Orlando I travelled to Miami today on the 11:50 (which ran 30 minutes late throughout due to "a delay on the train's previous journey"). When passing through any built-up area north of West Palm Beach the locomotive horn seemed to be sounding almost continuously. However once West Palm Beach was reached there was no further sounding of the horn and I noticed that roads approaching crossings had signs with 'No Train Horn' on them. Is this a noise abatement thing for residents?

Yes, this has happened in various communities across the USA, and has been subject to a range of legal challenges and rebuttals, in normal USA style.

There have been various attempts at alternatives, including automated roadside-mounted horns on posts linked to the level crossing track circuits, to restrict the field of sound.

 

[DelW]

There's nothing ambiguous about a gate across the road and (lots of) flashing red lights. If people are deliberately choosing to ignore those and drive around them, then I don't see how the railway is to blame. If the fatalities are all at a few locations then there may need to be something done.

New safety measures have been added, initially lines of poles down the centre line of the road to discourage drivers from dodging the barriers:

(YouTube video of a news report from WKMG6 describing these).

There's also mention of proposed installation of red-light cameras and quad gates in some locations.

 

[ac6000cw]

New safety measures have been added, initially lines of poles down the centre line of the road to discourage drivers from dodging the barriers:

(YouTube video of a news report from WKMG6 describing these).

There's also mention of proposed installation of red-light cameras and quad gates in some locations.

Not before time - the busy urban crossings should have had central dividers (poles/kerbs/low walls) on both sides and full barriers (called 'four quadrant' barriers over there) when the line was originally upgraded for passenger use. Although not common, they've been used elsewhere in urban areas of the US for some time where the risks of crossing abuse are high.

As for sounding train horns - given the level of sound insulation in modern road vehicles and drivers playing loud music, where the crossings have active protection (lights, barriers and bells) I'm not so sure horns add much real protection these days against road vehicles abusing crossings. After all, this is attitude we have taken for many years in the UK i.e. regarding 'active protection' as being sufficient at crossings.