Bring your bike on the DLR

[Mojo]

http://www.dlrlondon.co.uk/bikesondlr.aspx

From 1 July 2013 bicycles are permitted on Docklands Light Railway (DLR) trains for a trial period. Bicycles are allowed Monday to Friday during off-peak hours (not between 0730 and 0930 or 1600 and 1900) and all day at weekends and bank holidays.

Bicycles are also not allowed to or from Bank.

I'm sure it won't affect too many people but I certainly think this will be good news for a few people who want to take their bikes on the train. Hopefully other light rail systems that prohibit bikes will follow suit.

 

[edwin_m]

Seems to work on trams in Germany. The cyclist needs to stand next to the bike, or at least sit very close, and move it if it blocks anybody else.

 

[transmanche]

Seems to work on trams in Germany.

I noticed the Amsterdam Metro not only allows bikes, but even has designated bike spaces.

 

[starrymarkb]

Seems to work on trams in Germany. The cyclist needs to stand next to the bike, or at least sit very close, and move it if it blocks anybody else.

Also the bike needs a ticket (at Child Rate)

 

[transmanche]

I'm sure it won't affect too many people but I certainly think this will be good news for a few people who want to take their bikes on the train. Hopefully other light rail systems that prohibit bikes will follow suit.

Some interesting rules:

• Max two bikes per set of doors
• Use lifts rather than stairs

Hopefully this will finally persuade T&W Metro to run a similar trial. (Equivalent rules on Metro would be: no bikes allowed at Haymarket, Monument, Central Station, Gateshead or St James (or on journeys passing through these stations); and no bikes for a few hours on home match days.)

 

[Mojo]

Hopefully this will finally persuade T&W Metro to run a similar trial. (Equivalent rules on Metro would be: no bikes allowed at Haymarket, Monument, Central Station, Gateshead or St James (or on journeys passing through these stations); and no bikes for a few hours on home match days.)

It depends on the reason for the DLR banning bikes at Bank; it could possibly be to do with the small lift or how busy the station is. Island Gardens and Cutty Sark stations are both sub-surface (possibly more similar to the sub-surface TW Metro stations) and bikes still allowed.

 

[Deerfold]

http://www.dlrlondon.co.uk/bikesondlr.aspx
Bicycles are also not allowed to or from Bank.

I'm sure it won't affect too many people but I certainly think this will be good news for a few people who want to take their bikes on the train. Hopefully other light rail systems that prohibit bikes will follow suit.

Rather oddly for a trial period I can't find a (possible) end date.

 

[transmanche]

Hopefully this will finally persuade T&W Metro to run a similar trial. (Equivalent rules on Metro would be: no bikes allowed at Haymarket, Monument, Central Station, Gateshead or St James (or on journeys passing through these stations); and no bikes for a few hours on home match days.)

It depends on the reason for the DLR banning bikes at Bank; it could possibly be to do with the small lift or how busy the station is. Island Gardens and Cutty Sark stations are both sub-surface (possibly more similar to the sub-surface TW Metro stations) and bikes still allowed.

LU allow bikes at sub-surface stations, just not deep-level ones - e.g. at King's Cross St Pancras Circle/H&C/Met, but not at the Picc/Vic/Northern platforms. As lifts become more commonplace, I wonder if they will revise this rule in time.

And I think you're right - in that I don't think that Island Gardens and Cutty Sark are that deep.

 

[Deerfold]

LU allow bikes at sub-surface stations, just not deep-level ones - e.g. at King's Cross St Pancras Circle/H&C/Met, but not at the Picc/Vic/Northern platforms. As lifts become more commonplace, I wonder if they will revise this rule in time.

And I think you're right - in that I don't think that Island Gardens and Cutty Sark are that deep.

Island Gardens really isn't. I've been there rather a lot recently and I'll be heading there in about an hour.

 

[Mojo]

LU allow bikes at sub-surface stations, just not deep-level ones - e.g. at King's Cross St Pancras Circle/H&C/Met, but not at the Picc/Vic/Northern platforms. As lifts become more commonplace, I wonder if they will revise this rule in time.

The reason for the prohibition of bikes on the Tube lines in tunnels is because of the risk of bicycles getting in the way during a detrainment rather than access to the platforms; also the Tube lines in central London can often be busy all day long whereas the sub-surface lines don't tend to be as crowded.

 

[starrymarkb]

Cutty Sark is pretty deep IIRC

 

[quarella]

Rather oddly for a trial period I can't find a (possible) end date.

That's so they can end it at any time without notice.

 

[edwin_m]

The reason for the prohibition of bikes on the Tube lines in tunnels is because of the risk of bicycles getting in the way during a detrainment rather than access to the platforms; also the Tube lines in central London can often be busy all day long whereas the sub-surface lines don't tend to be as crowded.

Presumably because evacuation in the tunnel would require everyone to file through the train to the end door and there isn't much room in a Tube vestibule to push a bike out of the way. But in that case why are bikes not allowed on the Jubilee Line Extension, where (like the surface parts of Tube routes and the whole of DLR) evacuation is possible out of every side door onto a tunnel walkway?

 

[34D]

Where else apart from T&W metro bars bikes then?

LU deep level is justifiable in my view.

 

[transmanche]

Where else apart from T&W metro bars bikes then?

Tramlink, Metrolink, Supertram, Midlands Metro, Glasgow Subway, N.E.T., Blackpool Trams.

 

[yorkie]

... But in that case why are bikes not allowed on the Jubilee Line Extension, where (like the surface parts of Tube routes and the whole of DLR) evacuation is possible out of every side door onto a tunnel walkway?

Possibly to avoid confusion with other lines (try explaining that logic to regular passengers...) and perhaps also for other reasons (as mentioned by Mojo above).

It's easy to have a simple rule barring them from tube tunnels on LU, rather than saying it depends on the tunnel.

I guess the concerns with Bank could include that some people would use the opportunity to transfer to other deep level lines and/or attempt to take bikes up the escalator, rather than using the lifts.

 

[transmanche]

I guess the concerns with Bank could include that some people would use the opportunity to transfer to other deep level lines and/or attempt to take bikes up the escalator, rather than using the lifts.

Although IMHO there is nothing inherently dangerous in taking a bike on an escalator. That was the method for using the Tyne Tunnel for more than 50 years.

 

[edwin_m]

Wouldn't be much fun if someone let go of a bike on a crowded escalator and it went ploughing down through all the people below.

 

[transmanche]

Wouldn't be much fun if someone let go of a bike on a crowded escalator and it went ploughing down through all the people below.

The same would be true of a any bag or case. As I said, it worked fine for over 50 years at the Tyne Tunnel.

The tunnel recently closed for refurbishment, which sees the escalators replaced by an inclined lift - on grounds of cost.

 

[edwin_m]

I'd suggest it is a bit different at the Tunnel where I imagine the escalator would have been mostly empty. Also a bag is unlikely to fall more than a couple of steps but a bike could go all the way down.

 

[transmanche]

I'd suggest it is a bit different at the Tunnel where I imagine the escalator would have been mostly empty.

So quite like many outer London stations outside of the peak then?

The tunnel escalators were the longest in the UK until those at Angel tube station were built. Peak usage was 20,000 users a day. Can say I ever heard of an accident with a bike falling down the escalator.

 

[Eagle]

The same would be true of a any bag or case.

Not really, as bags tend to be a lot smaller and don't have large wheels capable of rolling quickly down a flight of steps.

 

[transmanche]

Not really, as bags tend to be a lot smaller and don't have large wheels capable of rolling quickly down a flight of steps.

Strange that in another thread, people are telling me that bags are much larger... :roll:

A bike, if it were let go, would quickly fall over and get jammed against the sides of the escalator. It would not neatly roll down the steps. A case is far more likely to tumble down the steps.

 

[edwin_m]

How do you take a bike on an escalator safely without standing next to it, making it impossible for anybody to get past which is the whole point of the "stand on the right" rule?
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So quite like many outer London stations outside of the peak then?

The tunnel escalators were the longest in the UK until those at Angel tube station were built. Peak usage was 20,000 users a day. Can say I ever heard of an accident with a bike falling down the escalator.

20000 per day would be about 6 million per year. You mentioned Angel and it is probably a fairly typical tube station with only one line. According to Wikipedia its annual usage is of the region of 17 million.

 

[Harlesden]

A bicycle propped up inside a train occupies a space where three people could stand. Why should bikes be carried for free? Bicycles, unless folded, should be charged the equivalent of a child fare with normal PF procedures for failure to produce a valid ticket for the machine.
Who is liable if a passenger comes into physical contact with the pedal of a badly positioned bike and suffers injury?
Who is liable if a badly placed bike falls over and causes injury to persons standing nearby?
Sorry but if I were London mayor, I would ban bicycles, unless folded, from all local commuter services within Greater London. You either ride your bicycle to your destination or you leave it at home or at your starting station to take the train as an ordinary passenger.

 

[Deerfold]

Island Gardens still had "No Bike" stickers up this morning with no indication of the trial being in force.

 

[burneside]

Island Gardens still had "No Bike" stickers up this morning with no indication of the trial being in force.

There is a poster explaining the trial on one of the information panels actually on the platform, but nothing that I can see as you enter the station.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A bicycle propped up inside a train occupies a space where three people could stand. Why should bikes be carried for free? Bicycles, unless folded, should be charged the equivalent of a child fare with normal PF procedures for failure to produce a valid ticket for the machine.
Who is liable if a passenger comes into physical contact with the pedal of a badly positioned bike and suffers injury?
Who is liable if a badly placed bike falls over and causes injury to persons standing nearby?
Sorry but if I were London mayor, I would ban bicycles, unless folded, from all local commuter services within Greater London. You either ride your bicycle to your destination or you leave it at home or at your starting station to take the train as an ordinary passenger.

On Saturday, even before the trial had officially started, there were two bicycles next to each other in the carriage I was in, and taking up quite a lot of room on the busy train. These trains are formed of only two or three carriages and space is at a premium, even outside of the peak periods. I can't see this experiment being a success.

 

[maniacmartin]

This is long overdue.

The thing I don't understand is the DLR previously stated that there is no place on the trains for bicycles, even during off-peak times. They then ordered some new trains which had the exact same problem - no place where bicycles can be put so that they do not get in the way.

Would it not have been more sensible for the newest lot of DLR stock to have been built with a place where they can be put? This could also be used for pushchairs, wheelchairs and standing commuters.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A bicycle propped up inside a train occupies a space where three people could stand. Why should bikes be carried for free? Bicycles, unless folded, should be charged the equivalent of a child fare with normal PF procedures for failure to produce a valid ticket for the machine.
Who is liable if a passenger comes into physical contact with the pedal of a badly positioned bike and suffers injury?
Who is liable if a badly placed bike falls over and causes injury to persons standing nearby?
Sorry but if I were London mayor, I would ban bicycles, unless folded, from all local commuter services within Greater London. You either ride your bicycle to your destination or you leave it at home or at your starting station to take the train as an ordinary passenger.

I can understand your point during peak hours, but off-peak there is plenty of spare room (even if the stock isn't laid out particularly well).

Who is liable if a suitcase calls on a passenger? Or a footrest on a pushchair hits a passenger? Or if a dog makes a passenger feel uncomfortable?

Rail+cycle makes sense in my opinion, and should be encouraged if it helps get people out of their cars. When I used to live near the DLR, I sometimes drove when I would otherwise have done DLR+cycle. There is no way I would leave a bicycle at a suburban station so that it can be vandalised or stolen.

I agree that there may be a case for charging a supplement for bicycles, however, but only if the same supplement is charged to pushchairs and other oversized luggage.

 

[radamfi]

I noticed the Amsterdam Metro not only allows bikes, but even has designated bike spaces.

But notably not trams, other than route 26, which is a more express form of tram route. You have to buy a ticket for the bike there as well. There is a fee for carrying bikes on Dutch trains, and there is a national ban on bikes in peak hours apart from folding bikes. The Dutch have concentrated instead on a nationwide bike hire system where bikes can be hired instantly at most major stations with a swipe of a card, meaning less need to carry bikes on the train.
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There is no way I would leave a bicycle at a suburban station so that it can be vandalised or stolen.

You need to have manned, secure cycle parking like in the Netherlands, where you can only exit the cycle park by presenting the attendant with the parking ticket. It is mostly chargeable at rail stations, but many city centres have it free.

 

[yorkie]

A bicycle propped up inside a train occupies a space where three people could stand. Why should bikes be carried for free? Bicycles, unless folded, should be charged the equivalent of a child fare with normal PF procedures for failure to produce a valid ticket for the machine.

Would you apply the same rules to large luggage?

Who is liable if a passenger comes into physical contact with the pedal of a badly positioned bike and suffers injury?

I guess it depends on the exact circumstances.

You either ride your bicycle to your destination or you leave it at home or at your starting station to take the train as an ordinary passenger.

How does an "ordinary passenger" ride a train? And what if your journey is rather long? Do you apply the same logic to other large items such as wheelchairs, prams/pushchairs, and large luggage, or are you singling out bikes for any particular reason?
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You need to have manned, secure cycle parking like in the Netherlands....

Agreed. But, until then...