Bristol Airport Bus Services

[markymark2000]

To be fair, why anyone would use public transport to Bristol Airport is beyond me anyway, the fares are astronomical. The Airport taking full advantage of bus station fees and contracting out the buses rather than letting commercial operators do their thing. Seems to be very much like Edinburgh rinsing people who travel sustainably in the same way they rinse anyone parking. Very poor to see an airport acting in such a way. Why can't more be like Manchester and Liverpool, keeping costs for buses to a minimum with no price premium for passengers using the Airport.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

To be fair, why anyone would use public transport to Bristol Airport is beyond me anyway, the fares are astronomical. The Airport taking full advantage of bus station fees and contracting out the buses rather than letting commercial operators do their thing. Seems to be very much like Edinburgh rinsing people who travel sustainably in the same way they rinse anyone parking. Very poor to see an airport acting in such a way. Why can't more be like Manchester and Liverpool, keeping costs for buses to a minimum with no price premium for passengers using the Airport.

Because to park your car for 7 days costs a small fortune. On the airport is £125. You can get cheaper if you're prepared to park off the airport but then you have the faffing with transfers. Either you pay through your flight but as the airlines don't want to charge you, then the business model means you have to pay in other ways.

 

[markymark2000]

Because to park your car for 7 days costs a small fortune. On the airport is £125. You can get cheaper if you're prepared to park off the airport but then you have the faffing with transfers. Either you pay through your flight but as the airlines don't want to charge you, then the business model means you have to pay in other ways.

It seems like the majority of airports can manage it ok though like those which I have mentioned. It's pretty much just Bristol and Edinburgh who try to kill local bus patronage.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It seems like the majority of airports can manage it ok though like those which I have mentioned. It's pretty much just Bristol and Edinburgh who try to kill local bus patronage.

Perhaps it's because Bristol is looking to grow their business and haven't wished to upset the airlines. Look at passenger figures since 1999 to 2019 - Bristol went from 1.99m to 8.96m in that time. Cardiff went from 1.33m to 1.66m (peaking at 2.11m in 2007) which suggests that Bristol Airport is doing something right.

I'm not certain that Bristol Airport was looking to kill local bus patronage. IIRC, the only route that really served the airport was the 121 from Weston to Bristol - a very circuitous route and went about hourly (if that) before they introduced the Airport Flyer, and the extent of the Flyer services has definitely grown over the years; @Citistar will remember better than me. RATP introduced the A4 from Bath (hourly with ex London deckers); it was then doubled with additional new vehicles added. This was assisted by them carrying local passengers (at local fares) from Bath to Keynsham and South Bristol, and undermining First's services in the process though the average punter is probably still better off.

I fully agree that passengers can't circumvent the premium prices by getting local bus services to Bristol Airport. That those premium services were doing very well until a certain pandemic hit is also correct. One thing that is really evident is that local bus services don't help employees get to work unlike places like Luton or Stansted; again, @Citistar will recall better than me that they have played around with this with routes like the A2 that was funded by North Somerset Council via the Local Sustainable Transport Fund but as soon as the money runs out...

 

[markymark2000]

I'm not certain that Bristol Airport was looking to kill local bus patronage. IIRC, the only route that really served the airport was the 121 from Weston to Bristol - a very circuitous route and went about hourly (if that) before they introduced the Airport Flyer, and the extent of the Flyer services has definitely grown over the years; @Citistar will remember better than me. RATP introduced the A4 from Bath (hourly with ex London deckers); it was then doubled with additional new vehicles added. This was assisted by them carrying local passengers (at local fares) from Bath to Keynsham and South Bristol, and undermining First's services in the process though the average punter is probably still better off.

I fully agree that passengers can't circumvent the premium prices by getting local bus services to Bristol Airport. That those premium services were doing very well until a certain pandemic hit is also correct. One thing that is really evident is that local bus services don't help employees get to work unlike places like Luton or Stansted; again, @Citistar will recall better than me that they have played around with this with routes like the A2 that was funded by North Somerset Council via the Local Sustainable Transport Fund but as soon as the money runs out...

Irrelevant of history, the fact is we are meant to be promoting cheaper, integrated travel. Yet Bristol Airport has stupidly high bus station fees to discourage public transport usage and have bus tickets which are purposefully restrictive rather than integrating with the rest of the bus network. Very similar to Edinburgh Airport, stupidly high access fees to discourage public transport usage.

Liverpool, Birmingham, Manchester, Gatwick, Heathrow (to an extent) and some more don't charge stupid fees and so bus fares can be on the normal scale. Liverpool, Manchester and Birmingham all manage on low flat fares. Liverpool JLA fast bus, £2.30 each way. Birmingham, £2.20, Bristol, £9. Greed combined with them now wanting people to use public transport! If they can discourage public transport, more people will want to park and so they make more money.


Local buses could get employees to work if the fares weren't so astronomical. £13 return is more than an hours wage for most people.

 

[D2007wsm]

Irrelevant of history, the fact is we are meant to be promoting cheaper, integrated travel. Yet Bristol Airport has stupidly high bus station fees to discourage public transport usage and have bus tickets which are purposefully restrictive rather than integrating with the rest of the bus network. Very similar to Edinburgh Airport, stupidly high access fees to discourage public transport usage.

Liverpool, Birmingham, Manchester, Gatwick, Heathrow (to an extent) and some more don't charge stupid fees and so bus fares can be on the normal scale. Liverpool, Manchester and Birmingham all manage on low flat fares. Liverpool JLA fast bus, £2.30 each way. Birmingham, £2.20, Bristol, £9. Greed combined with them now wanting people to use public transport! If they can discourage public transport, more people will want to park and so they make more money.


Local buses could get employees to work if the fares weren't so astronomical. £13 return is more than an hours wage for most people.

At least on the A3, Bristol Airport staff no longer pay

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Irrelevant of history, the fact is we are meant to be promoting cheaper, integrated travel. Yet Bristol Airport has stupidly high bus station fees to discourage public transport usage and have bus tickets which are purposefully restrictive rather than integrating with the rest of the bus network. Very similar to Edinburgh Airport, stupidly high access fees to discourage public transport usage.

Liverpool, Birmingham, Manchester, Gatwick, Heathrow (to an extent) and some more don't charge stupid fees and so bus fares can be on the normal scale. Liverpool, Manchester and Birmingham all manage on low flat fares. Liverpool JLA fast bus, £2.30 each way. Birmingham, £2.20, Bristol, £9. Greed combined with them now wanting people to use public transport! If they can discourage public transport, more people will want to park and so they make more money.


Local buses could get employees to work if the fares weren't so astronomical. £13 return is more than an hours wage for most people.

The idea that they have "stupidly high bus station fees to discourage public transport usage" simply isn't backed up by the fact that public transport usage to Bristol Airport has grown. If you have a look at the CAA's own figures 2017-2019 https://www.caa.co.uk/media/ti3mp0lr/t07_2019.pdf you will see Bristol does quite well in public transport usage as a % of passengers and probably explains why the Falcon and Flyer routes have prospered.

Their business model is to keep fees low to attract airlines (and they keep their fares low) and instead, the airport makes money from other revenue streams such as premium transport fares, airport concessions, and extremely high parking charges.

Also, the airport staff gets massively discounted bus fares and currently get free travel on the Flyer routes currently as they are desperate to get staff in the door! Problem is that they also get free parking!

 

[markymark2000]

Their business model is to keep fees low to attract airlines (and they keep their fares low) and instead, the airport makes money from other revenue streams such as premium transport fares, airport concessions, and extremely high parking charges.

Maybe if the airport opened up their buses to joe public and had them integrated into the wider bus network, the routes would make more money and as such cover more of their costs. That then means that bus station fees can be reduced to a proper level. If bus station fees are lower, more buses may stop in there. A small price premium makes sense but the amount that they go up is a joke. £10 premium on AirDecker for example just to go to the Airport. Outrageous prices

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Maybe if the airport opened up their buses to joe public and had them integrated into the wider bus network, the routes would make more money and as such cover more of their costs. That then means that bus station fees can be reduced to a proper level. If bus station fees are lower, more buses may stop in there. A small price premium makes sense but the amount that they go up is a joke. £10 premium on AirDecker for example just to go to the Airport. Outrageous prices

Look, you've said that BA are anti public transport and the facts show otherwise, and the percentage of passengers arriving by bus is comparable to similar airports without a rail link. Clearly, it is not the disincentive that you think it is.

Staff fares are heavily subsidised (and indeed, free at the moment).

Have you actually flown from Bristol Airport? Do you know the area? What makes you think that there is some other untapped market?

 

[markymark2000]

Look, you've said that BA are anti public transport and the facts show otherwise, and the percentage of passengers arriving by bus is comparable to similar airports without a rail link. Clearly, it is not the disincentive that you think it is.

Just because percentages show that people are travelling by public transport, it does not mean for 1 second that Bristol Airport is pro public transport. Their actions show that they are trying to discourage public transport, it just means that the public are not following that. If they were 'pro public transport', as you are claiming (with no substance I should add), they would be pricing the fares significantly lower than they currently are. Or, if that many people are using the buses (which you do claim), why are the buses contracted from the Airport, they would be commercial services if they were that busy.

Also, just because a percentage of people may travel by public transport, it doesn't mean that there isn't potential for much higher use if fares were priced at a reasonable level. It's worth noting too that the figures from the CAA (https://www.caa.co.uk/data-and-anal...ch/departing-passenger-survey/survey-reports/ 2019 stats) do include coaches and there is no info on what minibuses would class as. Therefore people hiring a coach and maybe minibuses would be included in that. The fares for longer distance aren't that bad too so National Express and Falcon making up those numbers isn't too bad. Unfortunately, the data isn't down to the granular level that would be required here for a proper evaluation. The astronomical fares mainly affect residents of the West of England Combined Authority. People from further away get better fares. To prove the point, it's cheaper to get Falcon from Exeter to Bristol Airport (fare from Megabus quoted £15.40) than it is the local bus from Bath to the Airport (£16). It's also cheaper to get National Express from Cardiff (quoted £6) than it is to get from Bristol City Centre to the Airport. Be interesting to see how you defend that.

 

[lewesroad]

Not all buses to the airport include a surcharge. I’ve used the 54 from Clevedon a few times recently and it was only £3.50. No service now of course with the demise of Bristol Community Transport.

 

[volvob12]

Irrelevant of history, the fact is we are meant to be promoting cheaper, integrated travel. Yet Bristol Airport has stupidly high bus station fees to discourage public transport usage and have bus tickets which are purposefully restrictive rather than integrating with the rest of the bus network.

Out of interest, have you got a source for the ‘stupidly high bus station fees’? It would be interesting to see what they charge operators for use of the new bus interchange.

 

[embers25]

Whilst the fares are high, the bigger issue is the awful bus station along with its waiting room where you can't actually see the buses from and it's not so live departure board which create the impression that the airport really doesn't care about bus passengers. When your bus does come, you have to queue up in the wind and rain (Bristol Airport has it's own micro-climate of almost perpetual wind and rain) as the stops themselves have no shelter at all.

The old A2 to the airport did have lower fares and even cheaper fares if you got off the stop before the airport but not sure about the A1 now. Falcon is also much cheaper though obviously only every hour to Bristol.

 

[Snow1964]

Bristol airport does not help itself, we flew out from it Monday.
On day before received email from airline, advising due to security delays at Bristol airport need to check in 3 hours before. We paid for fast track (took 55 minutes), normal security is nearer 1-2 hours, and all lanes in main hall were open at 05:30am. They simply haven’t built enough lanes.

There was about 25 flights leaving between 06:00 and 08:00 so about 4000 customers expected to get there between 3am and 5am. Maybe if you live in centre of Bristol can get public transport to Bristol airport at 3am. But most places within an hour or two away you can’t get public transport in middle of the night.

So looking at overall stats split by car, bus, taxi or whatever is misleading because the airport (plane) schedules are something like 25-30 departures by 8:30, then just handful until lunchtime, then another bulge (as all the holiday flights return and turn around), then another quiet period late afternoon, then lots of arrivals late evening. So everyone on a holiday flight (majority of Bristol airport passengers) either need to get there in middle of night, or have a flight which gets them back late evening. Neither of which works well for a family living within hour or two of the airport, so end up driving and paying a fortune to park.

So Bristol airport does to some extent discourage using public transport as it schedules so many early departure, or late arrivals when public transport doesn’t run. Suits the airlines as can do 2 or even 3 round trips per day. But being round trips means either the outward or return leg for getting to/from airport runs outside public transport hours.

 

[The exile]

Just because percentages show that people are travelling by public transport, it does not mean for 1 second that Bristol Airport is pro public transport. Their actions show that they are trying to discourage public transport, it just means that the public are not following that. If they were 'pro public transport', as you are claiming (with no substance I should add), they would be pricing the fares significantly lower than they currently are. Or, if that many people are using the buses (which you do claim), why are the buses contracted from the Airport, they would be commercial services if they were that busy.

Also, just because a percentage of people may travel by public transport, it doesn't mean that there isn't potential for much higher use if fares were priced at a reasonable level. It's worth noting too that the figures from the CAA (https://www.caa.co.uk/data-and-anal...ch/departing-passenger-survey/survey-reports/ 2019 stats) do include coaches and there is no info on what minibuses would class as. Therefore people hiring a coach and maybe minibuses would be included in that. The fares for longer distance aren't that bad too so National Express and Falcon making up those numbers isn't too bad. Unfortunately, the data isn't down to the granular level that would be required here for a proper evaluation. The astronomical fares mainly affect residents of the West of England Combined Authority. People from further away get better fares. To prove the point, it's cheaper to get Falcon from Exeter to Bristol Airport (fare from Megabus quoted £15.40) than it is the local bus from Bath to the Airport (£16). It's also cheaper to get National Express from Cardiff (quoted £6) than it is to get from Bristol City Centre to the Airport. Be interesting to see how you defend that.

How often a day can you get from (or even more importantly to) Cardiff to Bristol Airport for £6 compared with the “turn up and go” A1? Am flying with a friend from Bristol for 4 days in February- was going to park at the airport but at the prices offered it’s going to be “on street” in south Bristol and the A1.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Just because percentages show that people are travelling by public transport, it does not mean for 1 second that Bristol Airport is pro public transport. Their actions show that they are trying to discourage public transport, it just means that the public are not following that. If they were 'pro public transport', as you are claiming (with no substance I should add), they would be pricing the fares significantly lower than they currently are. Or, if that many people are using the buses (which you do claim), why are the buses contracted from the Airport, they would be commercial services if they were that busy.

Also, just because a percentage of people may travel by public transport, it doesn't mean that there isn't potential for much higher use if fares were priced at a reasonable level. It's worth noting too that the figures from the CAA (https://www.caa.co.uk/data-and-anal...ch/departing-passenger-survey/survey-reports/ 2019 stats) do include coaches and there is no info on what minibuses would class as. Therefore people hiring a coach and maybe minibuses would be included in that. The fares for longer distance aren't that bad too so National Express and Falcon making up those numbers isn't too bad. Unfortunately, the data isn't down to the granular level that would be required here for a proper evaluation. The astronomical fares mainly affect residents of the West of England Combined Authority. People from further away get better fares. To prove the point, it's cheaper to get Falcon from Exeter to Bristol Airport (fare from Megabus quoted £15.40) than it is the local bus from Bath to the Airport (£16). It's also cheaper to get National Express from Cardiff (quoted £6) than it is to get from Bristol City Centre to the Airport. Be interesting to see how you defend that.

Good lord.

Let's go back and see what was said.

Your original line was that you couldn't see why people would use public transport to Bristol Airport. As a relatively local resident, I explained it was because of high car parking fees. I also explained that the Bristol Airport business model is to suppress landing fees in order to attract airlines. They do this by getting airport users to pay through the nose for parking and for premium transport. Were they not to do so, then they would have to increase landing fees and other charges and they believe that would be self- defeating. Given how their passenger figures quadrupled between 1999 and 2019, far in excess of somewhere comparable like Cardiff, will suggest to them that this has been a successful strategy.

Now you seem to be conflating or confusing what I am saying so let me be absolutely clear. At no point have I said that they are pro-public transport. If you can find where I said that, please provide the quote! Do not misrepresent my words.

What I have said is that they haven't got an anti-public transport agenda as you suggest. If anything, they are massively ambivalent about how people get there - they just want their money in order to successfully grow the business. Your emotive line...

It's pretty much just Bristol and Edinburgh who try to kill local bus patronage.

...fails to acknowledge that there was never a local bus market to kill, aside from an infrequent service linking various villages in the area with Weston and Bristol. Bus services to the Airport only really came with the Flyer route.

Bristol Airport has stupidly high bus station fees to discourage public transport usage and have bus tickets which are purposefully restrictive rather than integrating with the rest of the bus network.

If Bristol Airport's objective has been to discourage public transport usage, as you state, the figures from the CAA would appear to show that they have failed. The amount of private car usage is comparable to similar airports i.e. those without a rail/metro link. You suggest that the CAA figures are somehow skewed, attempting to separate long distance coach from local bus (rather than public transport per se) or suggesting that private coaches are somehow confusing the issue. However, the sampling methodology is consistent from airport to airport so the share of the public transport by bus/coach is directly comparable between locations.

Clearly, people DO use public transport and whether it's coach or bus, that is still public transport.

To prove the point, it's cheaper to get Falcon from Exeter to Bristol Airport (fare from Megabus quoted £15.40) than it is the local bus from Bath to the Airport (£16). It's also cheaper to get National Express from Cardiff (quoted £6) than it is to get from Bristol City Centre to the Airport. Be interesting to see how you defend that.

I'm not here to defend anyone. NX can well charge £6, and of course, it is always £6, irrespective of the time of day etc...except it isn't. Also, you only have 5 journeys a day so the whole comparison doesn't really work.

However, as you mention the A4, let me deal with that below...

Or, if that many people are using the buses (which you do claim), why are the buses contracted from the Airport, they would be commercial services if they were that busy.

I'm not claiming this; this is not some arbitrary opinion from me, nor is it from Bristol Airport. It's the CAA's own figures.

Clearly, the A1 would be commercial and it is a busy route - hence why they had to replace single deckers with doubles in the last fleet replacement in 2016/7. First are essentially operating it as a contract with the Airport setting the fares.

Coming back to the A4 AirDecker, it is a commercial venture by RATP. It has always had those premium fares. It isn't controlled by the Airport. They can charge whatever fare they like but costs for accessing the airport are part of the overall cost base. Not only has it survived. It doubled its frequency and they invested in new vehicles and fleet replacement. It's been a commercial success, operating through the night (as do the Airport Flyer routes).

The astronomical fares mainly affect residents of the West of England Combined Authority. People from further away get better fares.

I know - I live in the WECA area. Where do you live?

So Bristol airport does to some extent discourage using public transport as it schedules so many early departure, or late arrivals when public transport doesn’t run. Suits the airlines as can do 2 or even 3 round trips per day. But being round trips means either the outward or return leg for getting to/from airport runs outside public transport hours.

To be fair, the A1, A3, A4 and Falcon do pretty well for early mornings and late departures.

 

[padbus]

Whilst the fares are high, the bigger issue is the awful bus station along with its waiting room where you can't actually see the buses from and it's not so live departure board which create the impression that the airport really doesn't care about bus passengers. When your bus does come, you have to queue up in the wind and rain (Bristol Airport has it's own micro-climate of almost perpetual wind and rain) as the stops themselves have no shelter at all.

Add to that the fact that Bristol Airport is a far from flat site. It is quite a climb from the bus station to the terminal building up several flights of steps or, if you have luggage on wheels, up a lengthy zig-zag path. Yes, car park users face the same obstacle but there is a shuttle bus. The previous stopping arrangements gave bus passengers a significant advantage.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Add to that the fact that Bristol Airport is a far from flat site. It is quite a climb from the bus station to the terminal building up several flights of steps or, if you have luggage on wheels, up a lengthy zig-zag path. Yes, car park users face the same obstacle but there is a shuttle bus. The previous stopping arrangements gave bus passengers a significant advantage.

This is something I do agree with. The new bus station is not as handy as the old arrangements. Not certain why they moved bused from the front of the terminal building (security?) and the new facilities are fairly perfunctory.

 

[markymark2000]

Not all buses to the airport include a surcharge. I’ve used the 54 from Clevedon a few times recently and it was only £3.50. No service now of course with the demise of Bristol Community Transport.

This will be because they are supported services and so the fare will be subsidised to encourage usage.

Out of interest, have you got a source for the ‘stupidly high bus station fees’? It would be interesting to see what they charge operators for use of the new bus interchange.

It's clear that is the case else why else would the fares jump? Liverpool Airport, same flat fare as the rest of the network, no surcharge. Manchester Airport, similarly, no premium surcharge. Fares don't increase that significantly to serve a single stop unless there are high bus station fees or access fees (whatever fee it is that the airport places on bus operators)

How often a day can you get from (or even more importantly to) Cardiff to Bristol Airport for £6 compared with the “turn up and go” A1? Am flying with a friend from Bristol for 4 days in February- was going to park at the airport but at the prices offered it’s going to be “on street” in south Bristol and the A1.

Granted, it's less frequent but the point is that on comparison, the fares are cheaper.

Your original line was that you couldn't see why people would use public transport to Bristol Airport. As a relatively local resident, I explained it was because of high car parking fees. I also explained that the Bristol Airport business model is to suppress landing fees in order to attract airlines. They do this by getting airport users to pay through the nose for parking and for premium transport. Were they not to do so, then they would have to increase landing fees and other charges and they believe that would be self- defeating. Given how their passenger figures quadrupled between 1999 and 2019, far in excess of somewhere comparable like Cardiff, will suggest to them that this has been a successful strategy.

Or, to look at things a different way, 2x £5 is better than 1x£7 (for example), cheaper fares, more passengers which means the bus (Flyer contract) or bus station (in this case refers to the departure fee revenue) makes more profit. More profit in this area means the profits can cover more of the other costs so then they can keep landing fees lower.

I also like the comparisons to Cardiff as if Cardiff is a big airport and has big potential. Bristol has a much wider catchment area and is significantly larger of an Airport than Cardiff. Cardiff could lower their fees but airlines wouldn't tend to go there because no one really wants to go to Cardiff Airport.

...fails to acknowledge that there was never a local bus market to kill, aside from an infrequent service linking various villages in the area with Weston and Bristol. Bus services to the Airport only really came with the Flyer route.

Ok, perhaps not 'kill' then but they do not help the local bus market would be a better phrase. For example, if it was integrated properly into the bus network, the A3 could act to provide earlier trips along the X1 corridor from Cleeve into Weston or later evening trips out of Weston. People are always asking for earlier and later buses to cover varying journeys, the A3 could fill that gap in the bus network. The bus is running anyway through the areas, it would just mean accepting and selling local bus tickets rather than it being solely an Airport bus. The A1 of course picking up local passengers on local fare rates would encourage more local use of the service. One example here could be Computershare reports to have 1,500 staff at the site on Bridgwater Road. Taking the A1 out of the equation, this are now had 3 buses per day, if the 52 comes back, that would be 9 buses per day. That's it unless you want to pay the extortionate 'Flyer' fare. The bus passes by every 20 minutes anyway, if a cheaper bus was offered, people in this site would see the bus as a more viable option. (Yes Computershare did or do have their own bus but with hybrid working now people will be arriving at more variable times or if someone misses their bus due to connections, it provides a backup plan. Perhaps some of the other people in these offices may make use of the service).

If Bristol Airport's objective has been to discourage public transport usage, as you state, the figures from the CAA would appear to show that they have failed. The amount of private car usage is comparable to similar airports i.e. those without a rail/metro link. You suggest that the CAA figures are somehow skewed, attempting to separate long distance coach from local bus (rather than public transport per se) or suggesting that private coaches are somehow confusing the issue. However, the sampling methodology is consistent from airport to airport so the share of the public transport by bus/coach is directly comparable between locations.

Clearly, people DO use public transport and whether it's coach or bus, that is still public transport.

People were told during Covid not to travel on any public transport and then it kept being discouraged, people still travelled (according to Gov figures). Just because someone is discouraging it, doesn't mean people follow that. Some people still have to make a journey and if paying over the top fees is the only way to do it, they will have to do it.

Coming back to the A4 AirDecker, it is a commercial venture by RATP. It has always had those premium fares. It isn't controlled by the Airport. They can charge whatever fare they like but costs for accessing the airport are part of the overall cost base. Not only has it survived. It doubled its frequency and they invested in new vehicles and fleet replacement. It's been a commercial success, operating through the night (as do the Airport Flyer routes).

Just because a route isn't controlled by an airport, the airport can still impose fees on the service such as departure fees or other fees. Operators could absorb these fees but of course that would likely make the route unviable and so often pass these fees onto the passenger.

 

[busestrains]

The biggest joke is the massive increase in the fare on the A1 when you go just one stop further and board or alight at the Airport Terminal bus stop! Most people do not realise that you can walk five or ten minutes to the Airport Tavern bus stop and save a massive amount of money!

To take the A1 bus from Bristol Airport to Bristol City Centre (or vice versa) costs £8.00 Single or £13.00 Return for this journey.

However if you walk just five minutes from the Airport Terminal to the Airport Tavern bus stop than the price reduces to just £3.30 Single or £6.30 Return for this journey.

So by just walking five minutes and then taking the same A1 bus you get your ticket for over 50% cheaper saving you £4.70 on a Single ticket or £6.70 on a Return ticket.

What utter madness this is! First Bus is completely ripping off passengers here when you can just board or alight one stop before a five or ten minute walk away and save over 50% on the fare!

I often travel to and from Bristol Airport on the A1 but only pay £3.30 Single or £6.30 Return as i board and alight at the Airport Tavern bus stop. It is just a shame more people do not know about this. It is a useful way to save money.

What is it with airports ripping off passengers with their public transport. It happens at most airports all over the world in so many countries. It is only at airports they do these rip off schemes. It is just ridiculous. All public transport to and from any airport should be the same price as anywhere else. I think it gives such a bad first impression for visitors when the public transport to and from airports is such a rip off.

 

[Dai Corner]

The biggest joke is the massive increase in the fare on the A1 when you go just one stop further and board or alight at the Airport Terminal bus stop! Most people do not realise that you can walk five or ten minutes to the Airport Tavern bus stop and save a massive amount of money!

To take the A1 bus from Bristol Airport to Bristol City Centre (or vice versa) costs £8.00 Single or £13.00 Return for this journey.

However if you walk just five minutes from the Airport Terminal to the Airport Tavern bus stop than the price reduces to just £3.30 Single or £6.30 Return for this journey.

So by just walking five minutes and then taking the same A1 bus you get your ticket for over 50% cheaper saving you £4.70 on a Single ticket or £6.70 on a Return ticket.

What utter madness this is! First Bus is completely ripping off passengers here when you can just board or alight one stop before a five or ten minute walk away and save over 50% on the fare!

I often travel to and from Bristol Airport on the A1 but only pay £3.30 Single or £6.30 Return as i board and alight at the Airport Tavern bus stop. It is just a shame more people do not know about this. It is a useful way to save money.

What is it with airports ripping off passengers with their public transport. It happens at most airports all over the world in so many countries. It is only at airports they do these rip off schemes. It is just ridiculous. All public transport to and from any airport should be the same price as anywhere else. I think it gives such a bad first impression for visitors when the public transport to and from airports is such a rip off.

How much is your £6.70 saving compared to your return air fare?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Or, to look at things a different way, 2x £5 is better than 1x£7 (for example), cheaper fares, more passengers which means the bus (Flyer contract) or bus station (in this case refers to the departure fee revenue) makes more profit. More profit in this area means the profits can cover more of the other costs so then they can keep landing fees lower.

I also like the comparisons to Cardiff as if Cardiff is a big airport and has big potential. Bristol has a much wider catchment area and is significantly larger of an Airport than Cardiff. Cardiff could lower their fees but airlines wouldn't tend to go there because no one really wants to go to Cardiff Airport.

The premise of 2x£5 being better than 1x£7 is obviously mathematically correct. However, the fact is that Bristol Airport is working on the basis of limited price elasticity of demand. They COULD reduce bus fares or parking but they don't need to - clearly people are paying. It hasn't impacted their ability to get passengers to use the Airport.

As was stated earlier, in 1999, Cardiff and Bristol WERE comparably sized airports. Cardiff had 1.33m passengers p.a. whilst Bristol had 1.99m. They were both smallish but reasonably sized regional airports. By 2019, the figures were 1.65m and 8.96m respectively. The fact that Bristol is a significantly larger airport NOW is that they have massively grown. This has been via a policy of attracting airlines through lower landing and handling fees, making up the difference from exploiting passengers through parking, on-site concessions, and the bus services.

I know that Bristol has a larger catchment area but it is not FOUR times larger than Cardiff. Bristol's growth has outstripped Cardiff and part of that is because airlines were attracted because of lower fees (and so lower fares) and so more flights = more passengers.

Ok, perhaps not 'kill' then but they do not help the local bus market would be a better phrase. For example, if it was integrated properly into the bus network, the A3 could act to provide earlier trips along the X1 corridor from Cleeve into Weston or later evening trips out of Weston. People are always asking for earlier and later buses to cover varying journeys, the A3 could fill that gap in the bus network. The bus is running anyway through the areas, it would just mean accepting and selling local bus tickets rather than it being solely an Airport bus. The A1 of course picking up local passengers on local fare rates would encourage more local use of the service. One example here could be Computershare reports to have 1,500 staff at the site on Bridgwater Road. Taking the A1 out of the equation, this are now had 3 buses per day, if the 52 comes back, that would be 9 buses per day. That's it unless you want to pay the extortionate 'Flyer' fare. The bus passes by every 20 minutes anyway, if a cheaper bus was offered, people in this site would see the bus as a more viable option. (Yes Computershare did or do have their own bus but with hybrid working now people will be arriving at more variable times or if someone misses their bus due to connections, it provides a backup plan. Perhaps some of the other people in these offices may make use of the service).

Surely isn't Bristol Airport's job to provide buses for (or to subsidise) Computershare? Perhaps it is more that Computershare should be providing a bus service for its staff?

Having the capacity to accommodate local passengers is one thing but esp during the summer months, the A1 is pretty busy. That's why they upgraded it to have deckers rather than Eclipses.

People were told during Covid not to travel on any public transport and then it kept being discouraged, people still travelled (according to Gov figures). Just because someone is discouraging it, doesn't mean people follow that. Some people still have to make a journey and if paying over the top fees is the only way to do it, they will have to do it.

That is a completely spurious point. Some people HAD to travel in order to go shopping or they were key workers. Going on a foreign trip is NOT the same as having to eat!

Just because a route isn't controlled by an airport, the airport can still impose fees on the service such as departure fees or other fees. Operators could absorb these fees but of course that would likely make the route unviable and so often pass these fees onto the passenger.

Well obviously, that is the case with the AirDecker A4. The fact is that even though these have been passed onto the passengers, it still did not stop the development of the A4, or indeed, the SW Falcon. The fares include the cost of accessing the Airport. And yet, people have still paid them, thus demonstrating some price inelasticity of demand.

The biggest joke is the massive increase in the fare on the A1 when you go just one stop further and board or alight at the Airport Terminal bus stop! Most people do not realise that you can walk five or ten minutes to the Airport Tavern bus stop and save a massive amount of money!

To take the A1 bus from Bristol Airport to Bristol City Centre (or vice versa) costs £8.00 Single or £13.00 Return for this journey.

However if you walk just five minutes from the Airport Terminal to the Airport Tavern bus stop than the price reduces to just £3.30 Single or £6.30 Return for this journey.

So by just walking five minutes and then taking the same A1 bus you get your ticket for over 50% cheaper saving you £4.70 on a Single ticket or £6.70 on a Return ticket.

What utter madness this is! First Bus is completely ripping off passengers here when you can just board or alight one stop before a five or ten minute walk away and save over 50% on the fare!

I often travel to and from Bristol Airport on the A1 but only pay £3.30 Single or £6.30 Return as i board and alight at the Airport Tavern bus stop. It is just a shame more people do not know about this. It is a useful way to save money.

What is it with airports ripping off passengers with their public transport. It happens at most airports all over the world in so many countries. It is only at airports they do these rip off schemes. It is just ridiculous. All public transport to and from any airport should be the same price as anywhere else. I think it gives such a bad first impression for visitors when the public transport to and from airports is such a rip off.

I thought that the dispensation to the Airport Tavern had now been removed and that it was standard fares now on the route? Even if that isn't right, I'm not certain that your money-saving tip is going to be that attractive. Now I'm guessing that you're a relatively fit man and travelling without a family? It's half a mile to walk from the Airport Tavern and you have to cross the A38 and it's uphill. Five minutes... with cases and perhaps kids? Really?

The fact is that you pay for convenience, as with many aspects of life and especially airports. Perhaps food and drink should be the same as high street prices? Ok but then your airfare will increase as landing fees increase to make up the shortfall, risking the fact that you then may lose flights/airlines as a consequence.

As for a bad first impression... I tend to think that it's not the best when you arrive in a foreign country and that there isn't a premium bus service and instead, you have to get on the standard, slow service bus. An hour travelling from the Airport into Ljubljana city centre... still, one of the better Arriva journeys I've had!!

 

[anthony263]

Not all buses to the airport include a surcharge. I’ve used the 54 from Clevedon a few times recently and it was only £3.50. No service now of course with the demise of Bristol Community Transport.

Till another operator possibly the big lemon takes over

 

[Citistar]

I'm not certain that Bristol Airport was looking to kill local bus patronage. IIRC, the only route that really served the airport was the 121 from Weston to Bristol - a very circuitous route and went about hourly (if that) before they introduced the Airport Flyer, and the extent of the Flyer services has definitely grown over the years; @Citistar will remember better than me.

Sorry, missed my cue there. The primary service serving the Airport was the 120-2/820-2 group of services (Bristol - Weston). They ran 5-6 times a day from 1986 as supported routes, being commercialised by Somerbus circa 1992/3 and returning to Badgerline when they bought the Somerbus services at the end of 1994. The service was standardised as 121 around 2000 and increased to hourly, with North Somerset Council supporting the hourly frequency between Wrington and Bristol (using Rural Bus Grant, IIRC). The rot began when ACL Travel won the tender for the bi-hourly extensions to Bristol around 2008 and rather than award the tender, the service was reduced to run between Wrington and Bristol only every two hours. The service slowly dwindled until being partly replaced by A2, then Carmel's A5 from 2016 until 2020.

During all this time, National Express had maintained a service from Bristol Bus Station to the Airport using a variety of minibuses operated by Wessex National, variously route numbered 730, 737 and later 331. This typically used only one vehicle. Around 2005, the Airport decided to increase provision and services 330 and 331 were introduced using Volvo/Plaxton coaches. 330 also ran via Clifton Triangle. In 2010, the coaches were replaced with the Volvo B7/Wright buses and the route standardised as A1 throughout.

 

[Marcus Fryer]

Sorry, missed my cue there. The primary service serving the Airport was the 120-2/820-2 group of services (Bristol - Weston). They ran 5-6 times a day from 1986 as supported routes, being commercialised by Somerbus circa 1992/3 and returning to Badgerline when they bought the Somerbus services at the end of 1994. The service was standardised as 121 around 2000 and increased to hourly, with North Somerset Council supporting the hourly frequency between Wrington and Bristol (using Rural Bus Grant, IIRC). The rot began when ACL Travel won the tender for the bi-hourly extensions to Bristol around 2008 and rather than award the tender, the service was reduced to run between Wrington and Bristol only every two hours. The service slowly dwindled until being partly replaced by A2, then Carmel's A5 from 2016 until 2020.

During all this time, National Express had maintained a service from Bristol Bus Station to the Airport using a variety of minibuses operated by Wessex National, variously route numbered 730, 737 and later 331. This typically used only one vehicle. Around 2005, the Airport decided to increase provision and services 330 and 331 were introduced using Volvo/Plaxton coaches. 330 also ran via Clifton Triangle. In 2010, the coaches were replaced with the Volvo B7/Wright buses and the route standardised as A1 throughout.

I remember the contract for the service being in the hands of Wessex Connect for a while up until about March 2012, when it passed to Bakers Dolphin. Then First registered it commercially about 2015.

 

[geoffk]

The old A2 to the airport did have lower fares and even cheaper fares if you got off the stop before the airport but not sure about the A1 now. Falcon is also much cheaper though obviously only every hour to Bristol.

Falcon fares from the south west to the Airport are the same as the fares to central Bristol. The Stagecoach website doesn't appear to give a fare between the Airport and Bristol. One my one trip on the Falcon recently I noticed cars parked up informally along the A38 north of the airport access road. Not sure if they were dropping off/waiting for air passengers or parked there for a week or so.

 

[Marcus Fryer]

Falcon fares from the south west to the Airport are the same as the fares to central Bristol. The Stagecoach website doesn't appear to give a fare between the Airport and Bristol. One my one trip on the Falcon recently I noticed cars parked up informally along the A38 north of the airport access road. Not sure if they were dropping off/waiting for air passengers or parked there for a week or so.

They’ll be waiting for air passengers to confirm they’ve passed through passport and customs. Used that lay-by myself for that purpose several times. It’s to minimise waiting time (and therefore charges) in the picking up parking area at the airport.

 

[The exile]

Granted, it's less frequent but the point is that on comparison, the fares are cheaper.

Are those National Express fares walk-up or advance purchase for a particular service? Fixed service advance purchase is all well and good for the trip to an airport, but for the return journey for peace of mind you need a flexible ticket and a frequent service!

 

[busestrains]

How much is your £6.70 saving compared to your return air fare?

Many fares on budget airlines like Ryan Air or Easy Jet or Wizz Air are incredibly cheap and sometimes only a few pounds. Ryan Air have had fares for £0.99 in the past. Even recently they have had fares for like £3.00 or £4.00 or £5.00 so just a couple of pounds. They often do fares under £10.00 or so. So actually if you use these budget airlines then the bus fare can be more expensive than the air fare. At some airports in some countries i have seen public transport fares that are easily five or six times the cheap Ryan Air fares. So if you are travelling on a budget airline your public transport fare could be almost as much or even more expensive than your air fare.

The premise of 2x£5 being better than 1x£7 is obviously mathematically correct. However, the fact is that Bristol Airport is working on the basis of limited price elasticity of demand. They COULD reduce bus fares or parking but they don't need to - clearly people are paying. It hasn't impacted their ability to get passengers to use the Airport.

As was stated earlier, in 1999, Cardiff and Bristol WERE comparably sized airports. Cardiff had 1.33m passengers p.a. whilst Bristol had 1.99m. They were both smallish but reasonably sized regional airports. By 2019, the figures were 1.65m and 8.96m respectively. The fact that Bristol is a significantly larger airport NOW is that they have massively grown. This has been via a policy of attracting airlines through lower landing and handling fees, making up the difference from exploiting passengers through parking, on-site concessions, and the bus services.

I know that Bristol has a larger catchment area but it is not FOUR times larger than Cardiff. Bristol's growth has outstripped Cardiff and part of that is because airlines were attracted because of lower fees (and so lower fares) and so more flights = more passengers.


Surely isn't Bristol Airport's job to provide buses for (or to subsidise) Computershare? Perhaps it is more that Computershare should be providing a bus service for its staff?

Having the capacity to accommodate local passengers is one thing but esp during the summer months, the A1 is pretty busy. That's why they upgraded it to have deckers rather than Eclipses.

That is a completely spurious point. Some people HAD to travel in order to go shopping or they were key workers. Going on a foreign trip is NOT the same as having to eat!


Well obviously, that is the case with the AirDecker A4. The fact is that even though these have been passed onto the passengers, it still did not stop the development of the A4, or indeed, the SW Falcon. The fares include the cost of accessing the Airport. And yet, people have still paid them, thus demonstrating some price inelasticity of demand.


I thought that the dispensation to the Airport Tavern had now been removed and that it was standard fares now on the route? Even if that isn't right, I'm not certain that your money-saving tip is going to be that attractive. Now I'm guessing that you're a relatively fit man and travelling without a family? It's half a mile to walk from the Airport Tavern and you have to cross the A38 and it's uphill. Five minutes... with cases and perhaps kids? Really?

The fact is that you pay for convenience, as with many aspects of life and especially airports. Perhaps food and drink should be the same as high street prices? Ok but then your airfare will increase as landing fees increase to make up the shortfall, risking the fact that you then may lose flights/airlines as a consequence.

As for a bad first impression... I tend to think that it's not the best when you arrive in a foreign country and that there isn't a premium bus service and instead, you have to get on the standard, slow service bus. An hour travelling from the Airport into Ljubljana city centre... still, one of the better Arriva journeys I've had!!

Yes you can definitely take the A1 to or from the Airport Tavern for this reduced price. It is still possible. I have done it twice in the past couple of months (the last time just three weeks ago) so it is definitely possible. I think they removed the cheaper fares to and from the Airport Tavern when the A2 was introduced (so the A1 was the same price for any journey and had no local fares) but when the A2 was withdrawn they bought back the local fares on the A1 to and from the Airport Tavern stop. So the trick of walking to and from the Airport Tavern does work.

I have done the walk between the Airport Tavern and the Airport Terminal and vice versa many times. It is fine with suitcases. I always do things such as this to save money (for example when i go to or from Luton Airport i always walk between the airport and railway station) so i do not think it is an issue. I have done the walk to and from the Airport Tavern in under ten minutes so it is not that far. Of course i understand if you are elderly or disabled or have very young children or a huge amount of suitcases it would not be suitable. But for an ordinary traveller with a suitcase it is fine.

I would much rather be greeted with a slow stopping local bus service with a cheap standard fare than an expensive premium priced fast bus service. I am sure there are a lot of passengers that are much happier to pay cheaper fares for a slower local service. Saving money is important to a lot of people. Many airports charge normal fares on the public transport to and from the airport so if they can do it there is no reason why others like Bristol Airport should charge extortionate fares.

Till another operator possibly the big lemon takes over

Why would the Big Lemon take over bus services in the Bristol and Avon area? They are a tiny independent from Brighton in Sussex so surely that is way too far for them? Has anything been announced about them possibly taking over? If so why would they be interested in this area?

I hope they do not take over. The are a terrible cowboy operator in my opinion. Every time i have taken them in Brighton it has been appalling service. Drivers skipping parts of the route out. Drivers terminating early on the last journey. Drivers running over thirty minutes late so they could do their weekly shop in the supermarket during their five minute break time. Drivers who do not know how to issue certain tickets. Drivers who think it is okay to smoke cigarettes onboard the bus because it is raining outside. I have used them many times before on their Brighton routes and it has always been appalling unprofessional service.

They also have these new cheap nasty Chinese pieces of rubbish running on their Brighton routes. I think they are called Higer buses. They feel so cheap and poor quality. They are horrible buses. They feel like they are about to fall apart. They should have just spent their money on more Optare buses which at least are built better.

I hope they do not take over these routes.

Falcon fares from the south west to the Airport are the same as the fares to central Bristol. The Stagecoach website doesn't appear to give a fare between the Airport and Bristol. One my one trip on the Falcon recently I noticed cars parked up informally along the A38 north of the airport access road. Not sure if they were dropping off/waiting for air passengers or parked there for a week or so.

I just looked on the Stagecoach website and it indicates that you can take the FALCON from Bristol Airport to Bristol City Centre for £6.10 Single (no Return tickets seem to be available) so even the FALCON is cheaper than the A1 bus to and from the Airport Terminal stop.

Are those National Express fares walk-up or advance purchase for a particular service? Fixed service advance purchase is all well and good for the trip to an airport, but for the return journey for peace of mind you need a flexible ticket and a frequent service!

Those are advance fares bought online.

The walk up fares purchased from the driver on the day can be viewed here on this link:

National Express Coaches - Coach Guide Pages

www.nxagents.com

As you can see they are a lot more expensive.

National Express fares are normally extortionate if you purchase them from the driver and normally a lot more expensive than the walk up train fare for the same journey.

 

[Citistar]

I remember the contract for the service being in the hands of Wessex Connect for a while up until about March 2012, when it passed to Bakers Dolphin. Then First registered it commercially about 2015.

Of course, i forgot that part. Wessex took over the 121 in April 2010, which i should have remembered as it was the same time as i took on the 52, Bakers then took it over weekdays on retendering in either 2012 or 2013, having operated a Sunday service on it for a fair while.