Britannia Bus Withdraws services from Milton Keynes - citing MK Council

[sk688]

As the title states, Britannia bus has said that it will no longer operate it's services into MK , after the council reported them to the TC.

Thoughts on this ? While I'm not a fan of Arriva's local operation, has to be said that publicity for this operator is minimal at best, and their website rivals Arriva in terms of awfulness

Bus operator to scrap all services in Milton Keynes after accusing council of 'unfair tactics'

A bus company is withdrawing all its buses from the city because it is no longer prepared to deal with MK Council.

www.miltonkeynes.co.uk

Britannia Bus company has accused the council of putting politics before people as far as bus travel is concerned.

“We’ve been put in a position where we can no longer have a working relationship with MK Council because of the way they’ve acted. I am withdrawing all our services from the city," said the company’s managing director Derek Taylor this week.

Britannia has been running buses successfully in Northamptonshire for 16 years and recently introduced three services to serve the people of Milton Keynes.

Mod note: Please remember to add a quote from any external source that you link to. Thanks

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've come across this. Classic small-operator "the rules don't apply to me" moan - the reason the Council reported him (as per that article) was that he withdrew a service without giving the correct notice, and they were totally right to do so. Depending how you read it he may have done it more than once.

From the linked article:

A council spokesman said: “We’ve been in talks with this provider for some time trying to resolve issues of notification for service changes. If we’re not told about changes and nor are local people, then we’re obliged to inform and pass on customer feedback to the Traffic Commissioner. Doing so is an important step in providing more reliable bus services in MK.

We're better off without him to be honest. He's right that the DRT scheme is an abject failure, but this company, like many small operators round here, does not appear to behave well.

 

[markymark2000]

It's always sad to see an operator referred to the traffic commissioner but at the same time, the operator should be complying with the law.

 

[M@verick]

One assumes that he has submitted a request to cancel / amend the service without following the consultation period required with the local authority. As a result I'm guessing they've been asked to support it and don't know a thing about it.

 

[Derek2022]

Hello.
I came across this discussion entirely by accident, but it paints a very interesting version of events affecting my company in Milton Keynes. I do not wish to play hardball with anyone and I hope this is down to genuine ignorance rather than malice, but I would point out that not only are these assumptions masquerading as facts risking people's livelihoods, but the search engines that cache these pages do not know fact from fiction and your errors are cached forevermore. This is the reason why transport operators, whether road or rail, really don't like enthusiasts as a small percentage spoil it for the rest.

I will go through these in turn:

@sk688 : you've stated an opinion and that's fine- people will read it as such. However, I am mildly interested to know what it is about our website that you don't like; is it the presentation or the ease of finding information? Perhaps you could show us some of your own expert marketing as I am sure we will all like to learn from your extensive experience. It's true there are some broken links but they are not to important issues and are being dealt with.

@Bletchleyite : You are quite wrong here and this is what I mean above about the dangers of presenting assumptions as if they are fact. In 2020 the Secretary of State for Transport, RH Grant Shapps MP PC and Buses Minister Baroness Vere PC, announced a derogation in legislation- which was incorporated into the Senior Traffic Commissioner's guidance- which recognised that during Corona and following it, bus operators would be unable to operate their full services. In fact, whilst this legislation has been tapering down since the end of Corona in January, it is still legally in force until the end of March 2023. As part of this, bus operators were required to contact their local authority every month or so to update on their service plans. MK decided to force operators to run a full service, despite them not having the legal power to do so and so reporting to OTC is pointless anyway. As you should be aware, ours was not the only company to be so reported and as far as I can tell, all operators into MK have been so reported.

It is your opinion that people are better off without us. But I am not sure our passengers would agree- nor the 1/3 (approx.) of MK that is without buses and who cannot quite understand why no other operator is keen to move into the fastest growing UK City. Again, can you justify 'does not appear to behave well'? No, you can't. We've been running 16 years and that should tell you something.

@markymark2000 don't be sad. We have complied with DfT regulations and have the documentary evidence to support it. MKC have not. It won't go anywhere, but thanks for a sort-of balanced comment.

@M@verick 'assumes'- that's always a dangerous word. See above.

I don't entirely blame you for your views, believe it or not. Many years ago- over 1/4 of a Century now- when I was as young and inexperienced as some of you, I assumed that running buses would be easy and I thought anyone who wasn't doing it entirely perfect according to my own narrow view must be really rubbish. But then, unlike you, I got off my backside, passed my CPC, saved for my FS, bought a bus, learned to drive it and then found out it was not quite as easy as I thought, or you think now. But then it should be very obvious, shouldn't it? If it was easy then more people would be doing it. But they're not. QED.

Derek

 

[Tetchytyke]

You are quite wrong here and this is what I mean above about the dangers of presenting assumptions as if they are fact. In 2020 the Secretary of State for Transport, RH Grant Shapps MP PC and Buses Minister Baroness Vere PC, announced a derogation in legislation- which was incorporated into the Senior Traffic Commissioner's guidance- which recognised that during Corona and following it, bus operators would be unable to operate their full services. In fact, whilst this legislation has been tapering down since the end of Corona in January, it is still legally in force until the end of March 2023. As part of this, bus operators were required to contact their local authority every month or so to update on their service plans. MK decided to force operators to run a full service, despite them not having the legal power to do so and so reporting to OTC is pointless anyway. As you should be aware, ours was not the only company to be so reported and as far as I can tell, all operators into MK have been so reported.

An interesting attitude to take.

The derogations for running a full bus service- which essentially amounted to forbearance- do not appear to apply to registration requirements. There is a requirement to liaise with local authorities to ensure that this situation- where a bus service is pulled at short notice and before a subsidy can be considered- does not occur.

The derogations as they exist are designed to assist with operators experiencing short-term issues with staffing, etc, not for operators who want to change their registrations at short notice or on a whim.

This is the reason why transport operators, whether road or rail, really don't like enthusiasts as a small percentage spoil it for the rest.

Ah, but of course.

This is probably the most illuminating sentence of your post.

 

[Mwanesh]

After reading the operators post I can't really say much. They should have explained it much better without being rude. The comment about enthusiasts was out of order.

 

[A0wen]

Ah, but of course.

This is probably the most illuminating sentence of your post.

I think you're being unfair - let's re-read that sentence in context:

"I do not wish to play hardball with anyone and I hope this is down to genuine ignorance rather than malice, but I would point out that not only are these assumptions masquerading as facts risking people's livelihoods, but the search engines that cache these pages do not know fact from fiction and your errors are cached forevermore. This is the reason why transport operators, whether road or rail, really don't like enthusiasts as a small percentage spoil it for the rest."

There is quite a lot of opinion or speculation that is often dressed up as fact around here.

Lets take Bletchleyite's comment for example

"I've come across this. Classic small-operator "the rules don't apply to me" moan - the reason the Council reported him (as per that article) was that he withdrew a service without giving the correct notice, and they were totally right to do so. Depending how you read it he may have done it more than once." - well that appears to be a mix of opinion based on an entgusiast's understanding of the rules.

Making such statements can damage the reputation of a business - unfairly.

Equally "We're better off without him to be honest. He's right that the DRT scheme is an abject failure, but this company, like many small operators round here, does not appear to behave well."

So Bletchleyite presumes to speak for all bus users in MK? His 'standards' are accepted as those which should be achieved? The debate about an operator "appearing not to behave well" - appears to be on the basis of the report in a local newspaper. Yet, many posters on here will routinely dismiss a newspaper's article on the basis it was in a newspaper who's political inclinations they don't agree with.

 

[Tetchytyke]

There is quite a lot of opinion or speculation that is often dressed up as fact around here.

The operator appears to have interpreted the Covid derogations as giving him carte blanche to run what he wants and change it when he wants. Yet he- ironically- appears to be presenting his interpretation of the guidance as solid fact.

Clearly MK Council do not agree with his interpretation, hence the dispute.

And equally clearly, if his attitude towards the council is as obstreperous as his posting here, it is little wonder the council chose to escalate the matter to the TC for them to decide.

 

[GusB]

Please remember that there is more than one side to every story. You should be respectful when posting, even if you disagree with someone else's point of view. Any information presented as factual should be backed up by some evidence to back up your claims.