British Transport Hotels in the 1970s & 80s

[Merle Haggard]

(..) BTH had its own laundries and its own coffee roasting operation as well as its own wine cellars. (..)

I had forgotten the coffee roasting! The part of St Pancras that reached down towards the Euston Road at the West end was where it was done, and walking past there was a great smell from a usually open (and rather brown-strained) window.

 

[Gloster]

As far as I can remember, the only one I stayed in was the North British in Edinburgh, which cost me (if I remember correctly) £25, probably without breakfast. That would have been late 1982 as I had just come back from a trip to Ireland via a visit to the Kilmalcolm branch. (I may also have stayed in the Zetland in Saltburn when I was a few months old.)

Last year it looked as if I might have to go Liverpool on family business and I thought about staying at the Adelphi. I have read about it frequently as it quite often appears in novels set in the early twentieth century. However, the reviews made me consider otherwise: well-intentioned staff but otherwise awful might sum them up. As mentioned above some are very entertaining. The only place I have seen with worse reviews was the ‘hotel’ I lived in in Copenhagen for a couple of years. That was a cross between a doss house and a knocking shop, but more recent reviews suggest it has since gone downhill.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The only place I have seen with worse reviews was the ‘hotel’ I lived in in Copenhagen for a couple of years. That was a cross between a doss house and a knocking shop, but more recent reviews suggest it has since gone downhill.

Who needs 'TripAdvisor' with a review like that?!

 

[WesternLancer]

The North Western Hotel at Lime Street opens in September.

NW Hotel

This is very interesting - given the course of events from derelict to student halls back to hotel. Rather interesting that student halls less profit potential than hotel in Liverpool now. I wonder if the heavy work gutting it for student accom (back in the late 90s?) actually mad eit easier to convert to modern hotel.

It will almost certainly hammer another nail into the Adelphi - the situation with that being pretty tragic to say the least.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is very interesting - given the course of events from derelict to student halls back to hotel. Rather interesting that student halls less profit potential than hotel in Liverpool now. I wonder if the heavy work gutting it for student accom (back in the late 90s?) actually mad eit easier to convert to modern hotel.

It will almost certainly hammer another nail into the Adelphi - the situation with that being pretty tragic to say the least.

I suspect the Adelphi, like most of Britannia's utterly awful hotels, will continue to bimble along with custom from the likes of stag/hen parties and similar drink-based tourism. That is a fairly large market and one that typically wants to pay as little as possible. That sort of custom seems to manage to keep two similarly execrable hotels in fancy buildings, the Britannia Manchester and Sacha's, profitable enough.

As to the Adelphi, it's been awful for a very long time. If you can find it anywhere, watch the 1997 BBC documentary about it. Just cook, will yer!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The North Western Hotel at Lime Street opens in September.

The "playful Radisson RED" brand would have suited Virgin Trains if they still arrived at Lime St.

 

[bramling]

I suspect the Adelphi, like most of Britannia's utterly awful hotels, will continue to bimble along with custom from the likes of stag/hen parties and similar drink-based tourism. That is a fairly large market and one that typically wants to pay as little as possible. That sort of custom seems to manage to keep two similarly execrable hotels in fancy buildings, the Britannia Manchester and Sacha's, profitable enough.

As to the Adelphi, it's been awful for a very long time. If you can find it anywhere, watch the 1997 BBC documentary about it. Just cook, will yer!

It isn’t like Britannia hotels are massively cheap. They’re certainly not some kind of budget bargain basement option.

 

[WesternLancer]

Last year it looked as if I might have to go Liverpool on family business and I thought about staying at the Adelphi. I have read about it frequently as it quite often appears in novels set in the early twentieth century. However, the reviews made me consider otherwise: well-intentioned staff but otherwise awful might sum them up. As mentioned above some are very entertaining. The only place I have seen with worse reviews was the ‘hotel’ I lived in in Copenhagen for a couple of years. That was a cross between a doss house and a knocking shop, but more recent reviews suggest it has since gone downhill.

I think we last stayed in the Adelphi c2000 - and it was obv on the skids then. We checked in and were given our room key - my partner backed out of the room after unlocking the door, heading in and noticing someone's clothes on the bed and the sound of someone in the shower...

 

[Bletchleyite]

It isn’t like Britannia hotels are massively cheap. They’re certainly not some kind of budget bargain basement option.

They're no Travelodge but they are fairly cheap.

I think we last stayed in the Adelphi c2000 - and it was obv on the skids then. We checked in and were given our room key - my partner backed out of the room after unlocking the door, heading in and noticing someone's clothes on the bed and the sound of someone in the shower...

I've had that in perfectly acceptable hotels (and someone walking in on me while I wasn't very dressed as I was about to have a shower). It does sometimes happen, particularly where the hotel uses physical keys and one has ended up in the wrong slot. I do prefer hotels to have door chains to avoid this possibility, though these days they rarely do.

 

[Rescars]

The very high specification to which the Adelphi was built originally probably makes any full scale renovation and updating prohibitively expensive. As an example, to help its intended transatlantic guests acclimatise to the next stage in their journeys, each bedroom was fitted with two doors, one opening outwards (like a ship's cabin) and the other opening inwards (as in any conventional home). IIRC when the fire regulations changed back in the BTH era, the sound insulation properties of these double doors was such that every room had to be wired and fitted with a separate fire alarm sounder. You simply couldn't hear the bells in the corridors.

Some ex-railway hotels have scrubbed up very well when sufficient funding can be found, even after years in the doldrums. How about the Midland Morecambe as an example? And then there is the Midland Grand (aka St Pancras Renaissance), not to mention the Landmark at Marylebone, no doubt recalled by many on this forum as the former BRB HQ at 222 Marylebone Road.

 

[Springs Branch]

It's interesting to reflect back on the OP's original question.

It seems that in many cases the national BTH chain was able to deliver a decent quality product that may in some cases have been a bit old fashioned, but may have been to a decent standard overall and probably maintained at that across the chain.

In contrast post privatization, and the changing hotel market overall, has resulted in some of the hotels being heavily invested in, being very nice indeed to stay in, and probably quite expensive to stay at - but others, where the market is not there, have declined to a standard way below what I suspect BR/BTH would ever have offered - some to be close to being best described as quite grim. Some have closed completely as no doubt their business case / market did not stack up at all (flat conversions, demolition etc).

Certainly not a case of magic wand of privatization releasing funds for investment and a resultant upward spiral of quality and service in all cases - but almost certainly in some.

I'm actually quite happy that this thread has thrown up a great majority of positive experiences at the hotels in BTH days.

My post was partly prompted by reading a magazine article which started, sniggeringly, along the lines of "Incredible to believe, but the British Government once ran its own chain of nationalised hotels!" I think it was possibly a back-issue of The Economist magazine - a noted flag-bearer for free-market enterprise - probably as part of some Private-Good-Public-Bad diatribe.

I wish I'd known about some of the BTH bargains to be had back in the day - particularly the weekend off-season specials to destinations like Edinburgh or Glasgow with very cheap First Class rail travel thrown in.

I've stayed in some old-fashioned, but well-maintained and well-run hotels outside the UK (The Windsor in Melbourne springs to mind) and enjoyed the ambience of proper all-inclusive breakfasts, large rooms, high ceilings, voluminous bath tubs and the feel of thick, plush pile carpet between my toes. As cozy and comforting as a full Sunday roast lunch at your favourite aunt's house.

All or most of the hotels had ties for sale - in the course of my wanderings I stayed in many of the BT hotels and still have the resulting collection of ties. The seahorse from Lochalsh is my favourite.

When I first read this, I assumed this was just in case sir arrived at the hotel restaurant sans cravate and the maitre d' would discretely assist to avoid any embarrassing social faux pas.

Even at the end, BTH preserved the traditional belief that things could be done better in house than by using external suppliers. So, for instance, BTH had its own laundries and its own coffee roasting operation as well as its own wine cellars. Some of the hotels had their own bakeries, which also supplied other BTH hotels close by (breakfast rolls and pastries despatched along with the newspapers). Which is the better way to do things is open to perpetual debate.

IIRC the St Pancras wine cellars & coffee roaster supplied restaurant car and Pullman kitchens around the system. And did I read somehere they laundered the bedding from the Sleeper train network as well?

 

[Hapana]

Stayed in them as a child, including the Kyle of Lochalsh Hotel. My dad would not have stayed anywhere that was not "Good Value", so they must have been. I remember all the cutlery and coffee pots being stamped "BTH". i also remember staying in the one in St Ives, and I think that the St Ives branch did not run on a Sunday or at the weekends in the winter, so they picked us up from St Erth by car having walked over the barrow crossing.

 

[Rescars]

I'm actually quite happy that this thread has thrown up a great majority of positive experiences at the hotels in BTH days.

My post was partly prompted by reading a magazine article which started, sniggeringly, along the lines of "Incredible to believe, but the British Government once ran its own chain of nationalised hotels!" I think it was possibly a back-issue of The Economist magazine - a noted flag-bearer for free-market enterprise - probably as part of some Private-Good-Public-Bad diatribe.

I wish I'd known about some of the BTH bargains to be had back in the day - particularly the weekend off-season specials to destinations like Edinburgh or Glasgow with very cheap First Class rail travel thrown in.

I've stayed in some old-fashioned, but well-maintained and well-run hotels outside the UK (The Windsor in Melbourne springs to mind) and enjoyed the ambience of proper all-inclusive breakfasts, large rooms, high ceilings, voluminous bath tubs and the feel of thick, plush pile carpet between my toes. As cozy and comforting as a full Sunday roast lunch at your favourite aunt's house.

When I first read this, I assumed this was just in case sir arrived at the hotel restaurant sans cravate and the maitre d' would discretely assist to avoid any embarrassing social faux pas.

IIRC the St Pancras wine cellars & coffee roaster supplied restaurant car and Pullman kitchens around the system. And did I read somehere they laundered the bedding from the Sleeper train network as well?

Almost certainly. The laundries certainly handled all the tablecloths etc for Travellers Fare dining cars.

With regard to the cellars, pre-nationalisation the LMS even had its own blend of scotch whisky. It was labelled Bin 138, so named because according to legend, one of the directors claimed it to be "twice as good as VAT69"!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The very high specification to which the Adelphi was built originally probably makes any full scale renovation and updating prohibitively expensive. As an example, to help its intended transatlantic guests acclimatise to the next stage in their journeys, each bedroom was fitted with two doors, one opening outwards (like a ship's cabin) and the other opening inwards (as in any conventional home). IIRC when the fire regulations changed back in the BTH era, the sound insulation properties of these double doors was such that every room had to be wired and fitted with a separate fire alarm sounder. You simply couldn't hear the bells in the corridors.

I have come across that door arrangement in the Montreux Grand, a similar "faded glory" type establishment, though at least through being Swiss the staff were professional and it was spotlessly clean. I always assumed it was for insulation (sound and heat) - is what you say actually the reason?

Hotels pretty much all now do have fire alarm sounders in every room, they are built into the smoke detector.

 

[WesternLancer]

Some ex-railway hotels have scrubbed up very well when sufficient funding can be found, even after years in the doldrums. How about the Midland Morecambe as an example? And then there is the Midland Grand (aka St Pancras Renaissance), not to mention the Landmark at Marylebone, no doubt recalled by many on this forum as the former BRB HQ at 222 Marylebone Road.

Yes, indeed. The Midland in Morecambe is a very good example - and one of the early BR disposals (1952 according to the useful link posted earlier - I suppose that carried on quite well for some time before the serious decline there set in and eventual closure). Not stayed but it looks very nice.
It even has a Friends group - which I think was originally formed to lobby for its restoration

Current restoration of The Midland Hotel

The Friends of the Midland Hotel - dedicated to raising awareness and supporting the current restoration of The Midland Hotel, an internationally important Art Deco building.

www.midlandhotel.org

My post was partly prompted by reading a magazine article which started, sniggeringly, along the lines of "Incredible to believe, but the British Government once ran its own chain of nationalised hotels!" I think it was possibly a back-issue of The Economist magazine - a noted flag-bearer for free-market enterprise - probably as part of some Private-Good-Public-Bad diatribe.

I can just imagine. The problem with those sorts of articles is that they miss the opportunity to properly assess the situation and the issues behind it. I fear the author would not have addressed the reasons why some of the hotels (since transfer to the private sector) have become pretty awful, as described in the thread.

I must dig out my copy of 'Sauce Supreme' by P A Land as previously mentioned up thread - the whole aspect of railway hotels and associated matters is a relatively unwritten about area of railway history - but this thread has shown that it is an interesting topic. Well done for starting it

Sauce Supreme: The annihilation of British Transport Hotels Ltd: Amazon.co.uk: Land, Mr P A: 9781480105775: Books

Buy Sauce Supreme: The annihilation of British Transport Hotels Ltd by Land, Mr P A (ISBN: 9781480105775) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

 

[davetheguard]

We stayed in the Lochalsh hotel at least in part inspired by the same Palin related reason - stay was probably in the late 1990s. Sadly it seemed rather run down by then and service less than great. Food quality in restaurant not great either IIRC. Building clearly in need of investment.
No idea if it has improved since then - as noted location spectacular.

I suspect the impact of the then newish bridge to Skye had not helped the prospects of the hotel either.

I recall thinking it was a sad situation.

I called in one lunchtime while visiting Kyle in 2019; for very much the same reasons as yourself.

Rather shocked at how down on its luck it seemed. There was a small group of us hoping to get something to eat, but there was nobody on duty to cook anything, so we went to a local cafe instead.

The location, and its views, remain magnificent. Hopefully someone will take it on and give it some TLC


!

 

[WesternLancer]

I called in one lunchtime while visiting Kyle in 2019; for very much the same reasons as yourself.

Rather shocked at how down on its luck it seemed. There was a small group of us hoping to get something to eat, but there was nobody on duty to cook anything, so we went to a local cafe instead.

The location, and its views, remain magnificent. Hopefully someone will take it on and give it some TLC


View attachment 113341!

Thanks - sad to hear no great turnaround by 2019 then. I recall a superb view from the dining room when we were having breakfast in there.

 

[davetheguard]

not to mention the Landmark at Marylebone, no doubt recalled by many on this forum as the former BRB HQ at 222 Marylebone Road.

aka "the Kremlin". I remember being shown round the then newly re-opened hotel by a bored doorman. I was with my then boss, who knew it from when it was still B.R. offices.

The doorman led us into a magnificent, ornately decorated room: The Ballroom. "Ah", said my boss quietly: "the staff canteen!"

 

[Cloud Strife]

I suspect the impact of the then newish bridge to Skye had not helped the prospects of the hotel either.

The hotel is faded and really has seen better days. They trade on the views to Skye, but Skye is only really a popular destination for two/three months a year. The rest of the year, the hotel mostly relies on group bookings for various things, and you can certainly get accommodation at a substantial discount over the published room rates.

Friends in the area say that Kyle is still really suffering from the opening of the bridge, as is Kyleakin. Tourists don't really stay there, and Kyleakin has really struggled to find a way to get tourists to actually stop there.

IMO, the bridge should never have been built. The service was profitable, there was an established system of not charging islanders for the ferry, and the ferry itself was a huge attraction for tourists.

 

[WesternLancer]

The hotel is faded and really has seen better days. They trade on the views to Skye, but Skye is only really a popular destination for two/three months a year. The rest of the year, the hotel mostly relies on group bookings for various things, and you can certainly get accommodation at a substantial discount over the published room rates.

Friends in the area say that Kyle is still really suffering from the opening of the bridge, as is Kyleakin. Tourists don't really stay there, and Kyleakin has really struggled to find a way to get tourists to actually stop there.

IMO, the bridge should never have been built. The service was profitable, there was an established system of not charging islanders for the ferry, and the ferry itself was a huge attraction for tourists.

Thanks - you confirm what I thought at the time and fears of what things are probably still like now.

 

[greyman42]

Some ex-railway hotels have scrubbed up very well when sufficient funding can be found, even after years in the doldrums. How about the Midland Morecambe as an example? And then there is the Midland Grand (aka St Pancras Renaissance), not to mention the Landmark at Marylebone, no doubt recalled by many on this forum as the former BRB HQ at 222 Marylebone Road.

York looks nice. I have not stayed there but the public rooms have an upmarket appearance.

 

[Grumpy]

Yes, indeed. The Midland in Morecambe is a very good example - and one of the early BR disposals (1952 according to the useful link posted earlier - I suppose that carried on quite well for some time before the serious decline there set in and eventual closure). Not stayed but it looks very nice.

Stayed there approx 3 years ago. Room was relatively small and basic. Nothing to enthuse over. Buffet breakfast was excellent-as it should have been for the price.

 

[Merle Haggard]

aka "the Kremlin". I remember being shown round the then newly re-opened hotel by a bored doorman. I was with my then boss, who knew it from when it was still B.R. offices.

The doorman led us into a magnificent, ornately decorated room: The Ballroom. "Ah", said my boss quietly: "the staff canteen!"

Not the staff canteen but one of them.

I'm not sure whether there were 2 or 3, but, as a mere MS grade, I was only allowed into the basic one. The one for those at the top of the grades had waitress service and wine (possibly changed after Eltham Well Hall).

Similarly, there were two adjacent doors for the gent's lavatories, one marked GENTLEMEN and the other marked OFFICERS. I could only use the Gentlemen one. Obviously, no-one there was an officer and a gentleman...

 

[Dai Corner]

Not the staff canteen but one of them.

I'm not sure whether there were 2 or 3, but, as a mere MS grade, I was only allowed into the basic one. The one for those at the top of the grades had waitress service and wine (possibly changed after Eltham Well Hall).

Similarly, there were two adjacent doors for the gent's lavatories, one marked GENTLEMEN and the other marked OFFICERS. I could only use the Gentlemen one. Obviously, no-one there was an officer and a gentleman...

Wouldn't the more senior grades eat in dining rooms rather than canteens?

If one was an officer and a gentleman presumably one could use either door? Were the ladies' lavatories similarly differentiated?

 

[Merle Haggard]

Wouldn't the more senior grades eat in dining rooms rather than canteens?

If one was an officer and a gentleman presumably one could use either door? Were the ladies' lavatories similarly differentiated?

Well it was called a 'canteen' but even the lower grades one was pretty grand with decorative plaster etc. Marks & Spencers staff from their nearby head office used to busk into it, it was that good.

Senior officers wouldn't lower themselves to sharing with other ranks. L.M. people may remember a certain very autocratic Divisional Manager who, when entering a lift, evicted its occupants - amongst many endearing(?) practices.

There was only one grade of 'Ladies'. There were some very senior women at 222, including the design guru who memorably decided that end gangways spoilt the look of e.m.u.. Style over practicality, cramming latecomers at Euston into the F&S back 321 set with the front 4 half empty.

The railways were, from the start to near privatisation, modelled on Army principles. Promotion was by seniority (hence why Fowler, the least competent of the constituent C.M.E.s got the L.M.S. job), we 'took leave', lots of other little features. 'Canteen' was an Army term, I think. Sir Brian Robertson (+ lots of letters), an early B.T.C. chairman, was a very senior Army man.

 

[Scouseinmanc]

There is very little info online re. Liverpool Exchange station Hotel. Did it close the same time the station did in 1977? Is there anywhere that has any decent info about the hotel?

 

[lordbusiness]

I suspect the Adelphi, like most of Britannia's utterly awful hotels, will continue to bimble along with custom from the likes of stag/hen parties and similar drink-based tourism. That is a fairly large market and one that typically wants to pay as little as possible. That sort of custom seems to manage to keep two similarly execrable hotels in fancy buildings, the Britannia Manchester and Sacha's, profitable enough.

As to the Adelphi, it's been awful for a very long time. If you can find it anywhere, watch the 1997 BBC documentary about it. Just cook, will yer!

I had the misfortune to be booked with a colleague into the Adelphi a few years ago by my Company for thankfully only one night.
Arrived to find bouncers on the door.
I'm sure the three blokes checking in ahead of me had just been released from prison on account of them all carrying their belongings in identical clear plastic bags.
Checked the door to my room was locked when leaving to go to dinner to find the lock didn't actually lock and all my possessions were freely accessible.
Didn't fancy the dinner menu which included such delights as liver and onions.
Negotiated the various spice heads and associated druggies outside to find somewhere more appetising to eat, got back to find an ambulance on blues and twos outside loading an elderly customer who had probably had the liver and onions.
Breakfast: I described on TripAdvisor as 'an authentic recreation of breakfast in a 1980s British Army cookhouse apart from not having to bring your own diggers and mug and without a surly 'chef' limiting those foolhardy enough to eat there to one sausage and one rasher of bacon each'.

In short, one of the most bizarre hotel experiences ever, and I've stayed in hotels in Nigeria, Senegal and South America to compare!

 

[nlogax]

I've been following the adventures of 'Walk With Me Tim' on YouTube as he experiences a few Britannia stays. Judging by the state of the rooms and facilities rather him than me tbh!

 

[bramling]

Stayed there approx 3 years ago. Room was relatively small and basic. Nothing to enthuse over. Buffet breakfast was excellent-as it should have been for the price.

We were going to stay there in January, but decided the rooms looked a little Travelodge-esque in return for quite a lot of money. So we stayed in the former station hotel at Keswick instead, which apart from lacking sea view seemed much better.

 

[WesternLancer]

There is very little info online re. Liverpool Exchange station Hotel. Did it close the same time the station did in 1977? Is there anywhere that has any decent info about the hotel?

Interesting question

This pic here - dated 1975, still shows thew word hotel on the entrance canopy - so assume it was still a hotel then - unless of course that is in part of the wrought iron canopy metalwork and might then have survived even if it had closed as a hotel at the time of the picture.

Exchange Station, Liverpool.

The imposingly soot-blackened façade of the Exchange Hotel formed a screen between the station and Tithebarn Street, Liverpool. I had just arrived on one of the superannuated electric trains which in those days provided the service to and from Southport. The photograph was taken on Monday 1st...

www.flickr.com