BTP abusing genuine rail passengers (again)

[Mojo]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/06/
nstudent106.xml

A university student has been forced to give his DNA to police because he
failed to buy a £2.40 rail fare.

Jared Ahmad, 27, was arrested after completing a 20-minute journey to
Salford Crescent, Greater Manchester. He claims he was unable to buy a
ticket because there was no conductor on board his train.

Mr Ahmad feels he has been "tarred with the same brush as criminals" by
giving his DNA

British Transport Police arrested him, put him in a cell and took both
his fingerprints and a sample of DNA. Both will now be stored on a police
national computer.

"The police have gone totally over the top about this," Mr Ahmad, who is
studying English and Culture at Salford University.

"At the end of the day I was caught without a rail ticket, yet I have
been treated like a premier league villain.

"I'm just not sure we should have to give our DNA when it comes down to
failing to buy £2 rail tickets. The next thing we know they'll be asking
for our DNA if we don't have enough money for a bus fare".

Mr Ahmad said that while Mills Hill, the station at which he boarded the
train has no ticket machine, there is usually a conductor on board.
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"On that particular day there was no conductor so the plan was we would
buy tickets when we got there. I was stopped by police at Salford
Crescent as I was about to buy a ticket. They wanted to know my name and
address, but I didn't see why I had to give them those details.

"I'm not a criminal and I was just telling them what I thought my rights
were. I was neither abusive nor resisting arrest. However, when I refused
to give my details I was arrested for travel fraud".

The third-year student, who hopes to move onto a Masters degree at the
University of Leeds, was taken to the police station at Piccadilly,
Manchester, and detained for three hours.

He went on: "I am not a criminal and I feel I have lost considerable
freedom by the storage of my DNA and fingerprints. I don't want my DNA
stored on the database because it implies I'm going to do something in
the future. It feels like I have been tarred with the same brush as
criminals.

"People have been shocked when they hear about it, especially when I tell
them the price of the ticket and the extent of what the police did".

Mr Ahmad has written an official complaint to British Transport Police.
"The main thing I'd like is for my fingerprints and DNA data to be
removed from their system".

A spokesman for BTP said: "There is an opportunity to purchase a ticket
at Salford Crescent before coming into contact with rail staff or BTP
officers.

"This man was interviewed and admitted the offence, accepting a police
caution for travel fraud".

He added: "It is standard procedure that anyone arrested has their
fingerprints and DNA recorded

Absolute disgrace that this man was arrested in the first place, but even worse that we should keep DNA of those who have not been charged.

 

[Nym]

yeah, but look at the name. Maybe it's part of their imigration removals programme

 

[Tom B]

?! How is it his fault? It's the rail companys fault for not providing ticketing facilities...

 

[me123]

^ That's what I thought. I wonder if John Smith would have been arrested...

But, I mean, £2.40! Does Mr. Ahmad realise how much he's damaging our economy with such a theft? :roll:

 

[djw1981]

If you are in a minority which is at increased suspicion... just ask Irish people in England in the 1970's.....it;s a civil offence not a criminal one anyway....

However, his ' I know my rights' statement was his downfall. UK case law does say that when asked by a Policeman you must answer.

 

[yorkie]

Typical BTP. They go after soft targets, yet they do nothing when it comes to serial criminals.

When someone is caught with £18,000 worth of dodgy tickets then they just get a telling off, no DNA taken, yet someone else does nothing wrong and has his DNA taken. Surprised? Given the way they work, I'm not.

I don't think the BTP are being racist here, they're just doing what they normally do which is go for easy targets. We've seen it before, and we'll see it again, and the BTP have and will do this to anyone regardless of race so please don't bring that argument into it.

 

[driver9000]

there would have been a conductor onboard the train as all trains in the Manchester area carry one. We havent been stupid enough to go DOO.

Arresting him is maybe a step too far, he should have eaten humble pie instead of spouting out about 'rights'. Race doesnt come into the equation Ive seen hundreds of people fare evading and then getting shirty when asked why they didnt pay.

 

[Tom B]

There may have been a conductor on the train, but did he encounter this person? I've been on plenty of trains which have had a guard who has sat in the back cab all journey.

 

[1D53]

In fact he probably had TWO guards as they would normally swap at Vic.

 

[will1337]

Surely whether there was a conductor or not could be checked?

 

[Max]

This is insane! Surely he was within his rights to ask why he was being questioned? In fact, why did he even admit to a travel fraud caution? If he hadn't had a ticket check he'd done nothing wrong!

In fact, in attempting to buy a ticket, he was better than the vast majority!

 

[1D53]

Surely whether there was a conductor or not could be checked?

No need.

All Northern services have one without exception.

 

[me123]

There may have been a conductor on the train, but did he encounter this person? I've been on plenty of trains which have had a guard who has sat in the back cab all journey.

It is also possible that, on a busy train, the conductor didn't reach him. This happens to me all the time on the Whifflet train. We also have our fair share of slow conductors who can't sell tickets to 5 people in 30 minutes.

 

[Tom B]

No need.

All Northern services have one without exception.

Indeed, but the conductor could be

- busy sorting out something more important
- reading the paper
- eating break
- sorting out other passengers

etc.

 

[1D53]

Indeed, but the conductor could be

- busy sorting out something more important
- reading the paper
- eating break
- sorting out other passengers

etc.

I believe these are grouped under the heading 'Safety critical duties'

 

[Nym]

This is insane! Surely he was within his rights to ask why he was being questioned? In fact, why did he even admit to a travel fraud caution? If he hadn't had a ticket check he'd done nothing wrong!

In fact, in attempting to buy a ticket, he was better than the vast majority!

You don't have to say or awnser anything until you're arested and read your rights, but if you say that then you're arested for being argumentative

Drinking Coffee sould be added to the list btw

 

[O L Leigh]

Never believe everything you read in the papers.

Once again, it's probably fair to say that we don't know precisely what happened. It's not entirely beyond the realms of possibility that this guy committed some other offence in the course of arguing his corner which resulted in his arrest. The bottom line is that we just don't know.

O L Leigh

 

[1D53]

The ticket office at Salford Crescent is literally at the bottom of the sole entry and exit ramp. If the police were on the platforms they probably couldn't do duties properly so I imagine they were at the top of the ramp and the passengers had walked past the ticket office.

 

[Nym]

And I know what 'these kind of pepole' are like, they'll say police are evil and they should never have been arested when they have comited many crimes...

(STUDENTS BY THE WAY!)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The ticket office at Salford Crescent is literally at the bottom of the sole entry and exit ramp. If the police were on the platforms they probably couldn't do duties properly so I imagine they were at the top of the ramp and the passengers had walked past the ticket office.

They usualy split, one up there, somtimes with an RPO from G4S and one or two roaming (usualy in plain clothes)

 

[Tom B]

*ahem*

 

[1D53]

*ahem*

Whats wrong now?

 

[Nym]

*coughs*

Nym - University of Manchester
E&EE Dept

 

[Tom B]

Not all students are like that... in such cases I would attempt to find the ticket office at the finishing station.

(I was honest with a bus driver at the weekend, who tried to give me change from a £5 note when I had tendered a £1 note, though TBH him being £4 down might have taught him a lesson about telling banknotes apart ).

Of course what if there are no ticketing facilities at either station and the conductor doesn't come around?

 

[1D53]

You are meant to inform the guard (presumably when hes returning to the cab after door duties). In reality most dont bother and its considered a free ride!

 

[Tom B]

What, if you're getting off at a station?!

 

[Nym]

Should just do how I used to work on the HBS line commutes, Brid - Cottingham/Hull, they never asked for a ticket, so I never got one... I was a season ticket holder for that route anyway, got my overdraft raped for that every month, £143.20 indeed! Ended up that I couldn't be bothered going to (THAT) uni any more as often so I just got indivudual tickets on the train, if I was ever asked for one
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You are meant to inform the guard (presumably when hes returning to the cab after door duties). In reality most dont bother and its considered a free ride!

What if it's being run by a 150 with the usual style of GMPTE/A Guards, Can't be bothered

 

[1D53]

What, if you're getting off at a station?!

Well if your not getting off. If you are getting off then on the platform I presume. Those are the rules - I dunno how its interpreted. As I say - its normally a free ride!!

 

[Nym]

Well if your not getting off. If you are getting off then on the platform I presume. Those are the rules - I dunno how its interpreted. As I say - its normally a free ride!!

Does this apply on Rail Replacement Buses?

 

[1D53]

God knows - free for alls in that case!! I've never seen revenue checked on a RR Bus!

 

[TheSlash]

Never believe everything you read in the papers.

Once again, it's probably fair to say that we don't know precisely what happened. It's not entirely beyond the realms of possibility that this guy committed some other offence in the course of arguing his corner which resulted in his arrest. The bottom line is that we just don't know.

O L Leigh

I agree, i wouldn't be surprised that given a quiet news day, he's been made an icon of racial abuse, quietly forgetting anything else he may of said or done to aggrevate the situation