Budget airlines: Any differences between Ryanair and Easyjet?

[mickey]

Easyjet doesn't really operate from Gatwick, it's sub-let to another company that are awful and must be the main reason for the poor timekeeping.

Actually, with the exception of a small number of flights operating out of Switzerland and the wet leases (currently 3 aircraft) every EZY flight is its mainline operation. And yes, this includes Gatwick.

I can't wait until they try and fly with only one pilot and cabin crew trained to land a plane! Good luck with that one Michael!!

Strangely enough, given that planes pretty much fly themselves (whatever pilots say!), and how infrequently a second person is actually needed, I'd be quite happy to fly on one of these. However, given the damage it would do to the airline's business through the loss of panicking customers, I'd rather they didn't do it.

We'll have to agree to disagree over budget airlines Mr Morris: I like your posts generally and don't want to fall out over something silly

 

[jon0844]

It is definitely a different company at Gatwick, wearing Easyjet uniforms (well most of them). I forget the name of the company though.

Now if you're talking about higher up the ladder, in that easyJet still manage the actual flights themselves then I'll accept I didn't make things clear - but when things go wrong, you'll be dealt with by people who have no real power or authority whatsoever. They'll do what they're told to do, and pass out photocopied sheets of paper with the 'rights' for the poor passenger.

And I know this because it happened to me and thousands of other passengers in February.

 

[jamesontheroad]

It is definitely a different company at Gatwick, wearing Easyjet uniforms (well most of them). I forget the name of the company though.

I think all the orange might have been making you hallucinate. Easyjet acquired GB Airways, a franchisee of British Airways, in 2007, and their bases were at LGW and MAN. The transition has long been completed, all LGW employees of Easyjet are 100% Easyjet. They may be handled by a different ground handling company, but that's another matter.

 

[shinkansen1966]

Passenger numbers are strong, but I'm wondering if budget airline travel has had its day. Or at, lost its year or year growth. I think budget airline travel is based on discretionary travel. Some folk, feeling the pinch, will see a fancy weekend in Prague as easy to chop from their household budget.

This is the first year in about 15, then I've not flown at all. Instead, taken a train to Germany and many other trips in the UK. Frankly, I've not missed airports and airlines.

 

[jon0844]

They may be handled by a different ground handling company, but that's another matter.

You're being very pendantic now! That's not another matter - these are the people you deal with when things to tits up. To think you'll be able to jump above them and speak to easyJet staff who can use some discretion and get things solved is somewhat naive!

When you go to Gatwick, you'll be dealing with people who work on behalf of easyJet and have no leeway or discretion at all. When things go wrong, they will run away and hand out bits of A4 paper. I am sure I can dig out the letter and post it on here for everyone to read.

Now if you COULD go above their head and get things done, then they're doing a very good job of making sure you don't know that. Imagine a day where almost 90% of your flights are cancelled and you're told to go away/home. I was lucky in that a company paid for me to go first class with another airline the next day, or else I really would have gone home.

To be fair, the service I got coming back from Barcelona on easyjet was excellent. I have always been of the opinion that when it all goes well, low cost airlines can be fine - but good luck for when it doesn't. I am not a believer that just because you paid less, you should accept that you'll be shafted.

 

[Greenback]

Passenger numbers are strong, but I'm wondering if budget airline travel has had its day. Or at, lost its year or year growth. I think budget airline travel is based on discretionary travel. Some folk, feeling the pinch, will see a fancy weekend in Prague as easy to chop from their household budget.

This is the first year in about 15, then I've not flown at all. Instead, taken a train to Germany and many other trips in the UK. Frankly, I've not missed airports and airlines.

I agree, the golden days of the budget flight are over. People are less likely now to fly out to Amsterdam/Barcelona/Anywhere for a 1 or 2 night stag or hen weekend. Foreign holidays have dropped, probably due to the recession, and the ash cloud has also had an effect this year.

Of course, there is still quite a big market out there, but it is shrinking! People have less money to spend and you are right that a lot of the customers were leisure travellers, like those to Prague!

Many people are also fed up with airport hassles, the worries about checking in on time, the unreliability and the constant flogging of additional services at extra charge! Yes, the boom is well and truly over, I think!

 

[jon0844]

Rather a good time to sort out international rail travel then.

 

[mickey]

I think all the orange might have been making you hallucinate. Easyjet acquired GB Airways, a franchisee of British Airways, in 2007, and their bases were at LGW and MAN. The transition has long been completed, all LGW employees of Easyjet are 100% Easyjet. They may be handled by a different ground handling company, but that's another matter.

There have definitely been some crossed wires somewhere. I thought he was referring to cabin staff and the planes themselves, which (with the exceptions mentioned above) are directly employed by easyJet. Ground staff is a different matter entirely, and while I don't claim to know about Gatwick I do know that even at their 'home' base at Luton they employ a third-party company and it wouldn't surprise me if they had it there too. And in an extremely competitive market (the likes of Servisair, Menzies and a few smaller outfits are always fighting for business) knowing that upsetting your paymasters will almost certainly lead to a lost contract and therefore job (no TUPE at airports) is going to affect your behaviour.

Incidentally very few airlines employ their own staff at airports. BA and Aer Lingus at Heathrow are notable exceptions but almost every other airline at every airport doesn't.

 

[Greenback]

Rather a good time to sort out international rail travel then.

Yes, it;s not easy to plan a trip and buy tickets, despite the seat 61 man! This needs to be addressed, but by who?

 

[jon0844]

Good question. I want to go by train to Sweden one day, and my parents have already done it - but they ended up getting a rail rover ticket (and paying for Eurostar) which wasn't cheap but made it easy to do - simply making a reservation on the overnight service from Germany to Denmark.

It would be great if Eurostar offered proper through ticketing, and prices were made a little more competitive. At the moment, it seems like you're booking the normal price tickets on each 'leg' as they are different operators. We certainly need a bit of joined-up thinking.

The mere fact that there's a (admittedly excellent) website that tells you how to do things, shows how it isn't right at the moment.

 

[ivanhoe]

I basically think there is little difference between the two. This is a misconception that Easy Jet are the good guys and Ryanair are the bad guys. They are both similar in what they offer but Ryanair do it better, from a business point of view. Those who say the good days are over are also wrong. Rather than compare the situation with say 2005, I would go back to 1995 when flying inter city was for business people only. Now a lot more people are flying. Airports are the big problem. They seriously cheese people off and the surly attitudes of the Border Control Staff are more off putting than any perceived lack of customer service from Ryanair or Easyjet.

Railways could learn so much from low cost carriers but there are too many vested interests to keep the status quo.

 

[jon0844]

I don't like Ryanair anymore (despite using them my number one choice back when it was the cost a ticket and taxes - not a penny more) but would totally agree that Ryanair does things better, from a business point of view.

I can put Ryanair up there with Tesco and Apple as companies you love to hate, but still hand loads of money too.

Michael O'Leary is a very good businessman, although I do think that low cost airlines are starting to suffer and they've probably had their peak. If they were still raking in case, he wouldn't need to be looking at so many new ways to make money - or even jokingly talk about cutting one pilot.

A Concorde pilot told me that it would make far more sense for future high-speed travel by air to get rid of the passenger windows. It would allow far better structural integrity and the windows serve no purpose - but he knew nobody would fly if they couldn't see (or know that they COULD see) out while flying.

I doubt that, despite acknowledging that one pilot may well be sufficient if cabin crew could step in, most people would be happy to fly. And, we're assuming that the pilot has a heart attack and a steward/stewardess steps in to land. That's fine, but what about an actual emergency where both pilots are involved in saving a plane?

 

[mickey]

A Concorde pilot told me that it would make far more sense for future high-speed travel by air to get rid of the passenger windows.
[...]
I doubt that, despite acknowledging that one pilot may well be sufficient if cabin crew could step in, most people would be happy to fly. And, we're assuming that the pilot has a heart attack and a steward/stewardess steps in to land. That's fine, but what about an actual emergency where both pilots are involved in saving a plane?

In a 'normal' operation, planes can land themselves as long as it's at an ILS-enabled airport. Indeed they regularly do, though only usually in poor visibility or bad weather as a pilot only get to tick his log book for a landing if he himself has the controls. It would be a lot smoother if they got over the ego thing and let it happen more often, but that's another story.
In an 'emergency' operation it's different, and yes you would sacrifice some chance of survival with just one qualified pilot at the controls. That said, however, it's such a rare occurrence that it could be considered collateral damage, if passengers went along with it. However, I agree this is unlikely to be tested by anyone.

The windows thing is definitely true. For that reason cargo planes run much more fuel-efficiently (and safely) than the passenger versions they are based on. This is factored out by the fact that their average age is considerably higher, but the principle is sound.

I disagree that the age of the LCC is over - just look around the world at the airlines that are growing and those that are shrinking. However, of course we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[jon0844]

I doubt it will change that massively in our lifetime. Oil will get more expensive before it runs out, and when it starts to run out, I am sure we'll have got some alternative means of moving planes about.

The problem with a plane is that you have to carry fuel, and can't pick and choose what to use - at least not yet. That's one advantage a train has if it's electric, and even a car (which can pick and choose, even if you must pull over to refuel/charge or whatever).

 

[daikilo]

I agree, the golden days of the budget flight are over. People are less likely now to fly out to Amsterdam/Barcelona/Anywhere for a 1 or 2 night stag or hen weekend. Foreign holidays have dropped, probably due to the recession, and the ash cloud has also had an effect this year.

Of course, there is still quite a big market out there, but it is shrinking! People have less money to spend and you are right that a lot of the customers were leisure travellers, like those to Prague!

Many people are also fed up with airport hassles, the worries about checking in on time, the unreliability and the constant flogging of additional services at extra charge! Yes, the boom is well and truly over, I think!

Totally wrong. and I am not EZY. This is a down blip in air travel which is only marginally visible.

Now the facts as I see them:

Firstly, with EZY, you get exactly what you pay for if you bother to read the rather large print on booking. And there are no hidden surprises you could not have seen at checkin when booking, which I can testify first hand from many occasions. 100% to EZY.

When I plan to go to the London area I will always do a search between EZY and and other airlines and EZY usually wins by a significant margin, but not always. OK, I have to put up with a no-chioce BAW water and biscuit v. a choice of drinks and hot or cold food on EZY. For 5.5 euros I'll take the EZY choice on absolutely every occasion as I decide and know ahead. ~100% to EZY.

In my opinion, get to the airport a little ahead of time and EZY will take you under their wing and deliver an attentive service and exactly what you want in flight. I have yet to see this from others and in particular BAW, and I have the oneworld card. ~100% to EZY.

Yes, airports are a pain but with EZY I at least have a comfortable flow through security if I check-in at the last possible time (say relativeliy 5-10 minutes later and not worth the worry where other airlines suggest that despite timely checkin they may bounce you if you are not at the gate on time). ~100% to EZY.

Secondly, people may have less money to spend but e.g. EZY is like a magnet to get people over geological issues such as the Channel, Alpes and the Pyrenees, not to mention many destinations around the mediteranean basin. ~100% to EZY.

Ryanair might be theoretically even stronger but they have a habit of flying between obscure places with little if any choice of ground transportation, when available. I have never found them a more cost-effective solution for my family. ~1000% to EZY

I stress I have no connections whatsoever with EZY. My impression is that they have a business model which is very customer focussed and freindly. Do not knock them as, in my opinion, they will likely be one of the world's largest carriers latest 5 years from now, and I look forward to this happening.

 

[Greenback]

I have not knocked EZY at all. I have simply observed that the future of budget airlines is not one of continued growth.

You can post as many 'facts' as you like, they are only your opinion in the end. Still, I would never refer to your opinions as b******s, that would be rude.

 

[jon0844]

Thank you for that Stelios, sorry, daikilo!

 

[Greenback]

The ironic thing is that I will be flying with Easyjet next month! I quite like them!

Mind you it is from Gatwick...!

 

[Clip]

Yes, it;s not easy to plan a trip and buy tickets, despite the seat 61 man! This needs to be addressed, but by who?

Id sort it all out.

 

[scotsman]

I never have and never intend to fly with Ryanair. If you refuse to recognise Unions, you lose my custom.

 

[57315]

I have only flown with Easyjet.
The only problem I have had with them the last couple of times is planes at least 1 hour late. I never had a problem with online check in, baggage drop, in flight catering and the staff have always been top notch.

I refuse to fly with Ryanair, Complete ripoff merchants in my eyes and their fare advertising is misleading.

Il try to travel Lufthansa as much as possible. A truely decent airline.

 

[Clip]

I never have and never intend to fly with Ryanair. If you refuse to recognise Unions, you lose my custom.

Im sure they are not worried about that.

 

[mickey]

Il try to travel Lufthansa as much as possible. A truely decent airline.

Free champagne and newspapers in economy class - yes, Lufty's good. BA feels like Ryanair after Lufthansa!

 

[ivanhoe]

I never have and never intend to fly with Ryanair. If you refuse to recognise Unions, you lose my custom.

I admire your principals but I bet you shop at places which are not union friendly, albeit unwittingly on your part. Ryanair deliberatly play the bad guy but as far as their safety record and punctuality are concerned, they are one of the better run airlines. When things go wrong, they do tend to go missing but you know EasyJet aren't much better. Never had a problem with any low cost airlines yet and I am fully savvy when it comes to their pricing. Fares are still cheap if you ignore the headline price and most passengers are quite savvy themselves.