Bus driver brawls with passengers - was it fair he lost his job?

[GodAtum]

From the video, it looks like the bus driver tried to walk away a few times from confrontation but he was physicaly attacked from behind when he had his back turned after walking away back on to the bus.

Amazing CCTV footage has emerged of a wrestling match between a bus driver and two passengers which cost the father-of-10 his job.

Driver David Newstead becomes irate when passenger Tyler Belgrave-Breeds, 23, turns round the nearside wing mirror of the number 89 bus at a stop in Mayplace Road West, Bexleyheath.

The prank succeeds in winding up Mr Newstead, of Landseer Avenue, Northfleet, who then appears to lunge at Belgrave-Breeds and attempt to hit him twice in the head.

The row broke out after the passenger’s friend Sean Dickson, 23, was ordered off the Go Ahead bus for having an out-of-date pass at just after 7.50am on March 27.

Mr Newstead then retreats to his cab, but his tormentor persists in tampering with the mirror before picking up a can of drink from the street and appearing to fling it at the back of the driver’s head.

At this point Mr Newstead really loses his cool and chases after Belgrave-Breeds, who almost immediately trips over and falls on the pavement, bringing his pursuer down on top of him.

A wrestling match ensues, with Dickson joining in on behalf of his friend, before two passersby try to split the trio up.

A group of school children then run across the road to witness the brawl before other rush hour travellers crowd round at the end of the four minute clip release by the Met’s Safer Transport Command.

Belgrave-Breeds, of Brastead Road, Erith, and Dickson, of Lowfield Street, Dartford, were later arrested and charged with affray.

On October 17 the pair were convicted in their absence at Bromley Magistrates’ Court.

A warrant was issued for their arrest but they have still not been apprehended by police.

Mr Newstead also admitted affray and received a conditional discharge at a hearing in August.

He claims he is struggling to feed his large family as he can’t get a job with any bus companies since being fired by Go Ahead for gross misconduct over the incident.

A Go Ahead spokesman said: "Decisions of internal hearings are a matter for the company and employee concerned and we are not at liberty to comment on such issues."

Article and video here: http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/ne...job_after_this_brawl_with_passengers_/?ref=mr

 

[PG]

IMO although he was severely provoked the driver did cross a line and thus left himself open to some kind disciplinary action.
As to if the extent of that disciplinary action was justified or whether a lesser sanction/course of action would be/have been more appropriate - I don't think we have or are likely to have enough reliable information to reach a conclusion.

 

[ValleyLines142]

IMO although he was severely provoked the driver did cross a line and thus left himself open to some kind disciplinary action.

Agreed.

There is no doubt that he was severely provoked; but unfortunately, he just completely overreacted.

Where I work (Costa Coffee), if a customer shouts at me because I am making their drink too slowy when they're in a rush, and I decide to punch them or throw the drink in their face, I would of course be fired.

Although a totally different circumstance, the principal is still the same.

 

[Alistair G.]

It's unfortunate for the driver. I've had many similar incidents happen. When I use to do the university specials after a night of students drinking they would do all sorts, I had chips thrown at me and my bus on several occasions, was spat at, they would try punching and pressing all my wayfarer machine buttons (ticket issuing machine), you even get people trying to press the emergency close door buttons as they hopped off the bus to slam shut in some poor unsuspecting persons face.

It isn't easy to ignore and you want to rip into these idiots but I always knew that if even dared to think about retaliating I would've the one who would be danger of losing everything and management would wash their hands by saying "you ought to know better"

Don't get me wrong, I support the guy standing up for himself, it's just unfortunate he reacted the way he did but no doubt he was thrown user the bus by his own management (pardon the pun)

In society in general these days I find it doesn't pay to try and stand up to people (although I still do if believe I'm in the right!), u just become the accused and make things 100 times worse for yourself, shame it has to be like that

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I note that both Belgrave-Breeds and Dickson were convicted of affray in their absence and despite a warrant for their arrest being issued, both these two men remain at liberty.

That does not say all that much for those two men.

 

[455driver]

Another perfect example of the laws protecting the scum of the Country as they go round being w+nkers!

here is waiting for all the ****in Liberals to start going on about 'he crossed the line' etc, but can somebody explain why somebody going about doing their job should be the victim of continuous verbal abuse as this driver was without reacting!
He tried to fix the mirror and get back in the bus but they kept interfering with the bus and abusing the driver, when did doing that become acceptable?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I note that both Belgrave-Breeds and Dickson were convicted of affray in their absence and despite a warrant for their arrest being issued, both these two men remain at liberty.

That does not say all that much for those two men.

Or our wonderful Police force!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's unfortunate for the driver. I've had many similar incidents happen. When I use to do the university specials after a night of students drinking they would do all sorts, I had chips thrown at me and my bus on several occasions, was spat at, they would try punching and pressing all my wayfarer machine buttons (ticket issuing machine), you even get people trying to press the emergency close door buttons as they hopped off the bus to slam shut in some poor unsuspecting persons face.

It isn't easy to ignore and you want to rip into these idiots but I always knew that if even dared to think about retaliating I would've the one who would be danger of losing everything and management would wash their hands by saying "you ought to know better"

Don't get me wrong, I support the guy standing up for himself, it's just unfortunate he reacted the way he did but no doubt he was thrown user the bus by his own management (pardon the pun)

In society in general these days I find it doesn't pay to try and stand up to people (although I still do if believe I'm in the right!), u just become the accused and make things 100 times worse for yourself, shame it has to be like that

Which is why the scummers do it!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Agreed.

There is no doubt that he was severely provoked; but unfortunately, he just completely overreacted.

Where I work (Costa Coffee), if a customer shouts at me because I am making their drink too slowy when they're in a rush, and I decide to punch them or throw the drink in their face, I would of course be fired.

Although a totally different circumstance, the principal is still the same.

So I am stood at the counter calling you all the effs and bees and you would just stand there without reacting would you, even when I started throwing things at you?

For how long exactly?


Says a lot about this ****ty f+++ing country doesnt it!

 

[Antman]

I note that both Belgrave-Breeds and Dickson were convicted of affray in their absence and despite a warrant for their arrest being issued, both these two men remain at liberty.

That does not say all that much for those two men.

Or for the respect for law and order in this country!

As much as these two lowlife deserved all they got I can find no justification for the drivers actions, just stay in your cab and do a code red!

 

[455driver]

Or for the respect for law and order in this country!

As much as these two lowlife deserved all they got I can find no justification for the drivers actions, just stay in your cab and do a code red!

So the driver drives off and this <deleted> puts his foot in front of the back wheel, cue Ambulance, Lawsuits and driver up in Court explaining why he didnt stop when he saw it in the mirror, and will then be asked why he didnt reset the mirror before driving off!

The driver was damned if he did or damned if he didnt!

I see no one has answered my question about why the driver should be the subject of verbal abuse to the point of retaliating!

 

[swj99]

I see no one has answered my question about why the driver should be the subject of verbal abuse to the point of retaliating!

I'm sure plenty of people are likely to consider that these two muppets deserved to get ****ted. From a moral point of view, I think people behaving like they did need a bit of pain to help them know the difference between what's ok and what isn't. And I'm sure if people knew if they did twuntish things like that, they were likely to get clobbered and the person who did it would not be nicked, there'd be a lot less of it going on. Sadly, this country seems riddled with people who have made laws which favour the miscreant and make the victim into the criminal.
Was it fair he lost his job ? No. It looked like self defence to me. He should have gone not guilty all the way, and then gone to a tribunal about the dismissal.

 

[ModernRailways]

So the driver drives off and this <deleted> puts his foot in front of the back wheel, cue Ambulance, Lawsuits and driver up in Court explaining why he didnt stop when he saw it in the mirror, and will then be asked why he didnt reset the mirror before driving off!

The driver was damned if he did or damned if he didnt!

I see no one has answered my question about why the driver should be the subject of verbal abuse to the point of retaliating!

There was no need for him to drive off though. I believe all London buses have a panic button of sorts which can be pressed, the driver can then report it to his control room and wait for the police to arrive. Yes, they may have been hurling abuse at him whilst he stayed in his cab and maybe even damaged the bus, but surely that's better than getting off and throwing some punches at them? The CCTV isn't exactly clear, but after the first time he corrected the mirror and they changed it again surely you would just wait in the cab and await the police? Obviously, they could have then dragged him out the cab as he was climbing back in and then who knows what would have happened!

Maybe he shouldn't have been sacked, but that doesn't mean he should have acted like he did.

If you where in that situation when you were a train guard would you have went ahead and started going for them, or went back to the cab and requested the police or for station staff to come over and assist?

And no, the driver shouldn't have to put up with the abuse, but that's why during training they are told to remain in the cab and await the police if anything starts to happen or a passenger becomes abusive.

 

[rmt4ever]

I think they should have awarded him some kind of commendation lol... Or promoted him to inspector

 

[cambsy]

Im with 455 driver, drivers and customer facing people should not have to put up with **** and ******** from ******, Go via were very wrong to sack him with the evidence from the cctv, they need to back up their staff, I work in the taxi business and we get **** all the time, one of our drivers is ex bouncer and if the passenger gets lairy or threatens not pay, he just threatens knock them out and put them in boot and take to police station, I'm sure he'd have knocked out those ****** and taken them police station, he's not someone I would want to get on the wrong side of.

I would have appealed the decision and sued Go via for un fair dismissal with the cctv evidence available.

 

[Busaholic]

The whole point of the system on London's buses where every bus utterly without exception on TfL-contracted services has a cab for the driver impregnable to almost any type of feasible attack is that the driver (a) either sits and waits for police assistance or (b) in exceptional circumstances, drives to the nearest police station or other point, as directed. Now, a very wise man said rules are made to be broken, and so there must be circumstances where the driver might, and perhaps should, get out of his cab, but perhaps in all honesty not in this situation, however provoked. Having said that, I have a lot of sympathy with the driver and can see myself, having never been a professional driver, reacting similarly. I don't feel a sacking should necessarily have followed.

 

[notadriver]

I wonder what happened before to make the youths twist his mirror.

 

[muz379]

So I am stood at the counter calling you all the effs and bees and you would just stand there without reacting would you, even when I started throwing things at you?

For how long exactly?

Oh Id react , but not in a violent way

When I worked in a shop this happened on many occassions . I remember one particular occassion I had enough . This drunk guy came in and tried to buy a bottle of Vodka , in line with the licensing act I denied him the sale of that and he became abusive calling me every name under the sun as well as threatening to smash the vodka over my head and squaring up to me . I simply stepped out from behind my till , went through the locked door into the office/canteen block and called my Manager . On arrival I explained to my manager that I will not be spoken to in that way by a customer and will not be returning to the till until that customer leaves . My manager saw to it that this happened .

Had I steped out from behind my till and beat this drunken waste of space p**** up an down every aisle of the shop I might have got a cheer of applause from every single customer in the queue behind him . And might have felt good for 5 minutes but I know for a fact I would rightly loose my job .


What would have happened had the bus driver seriously injured one of them leaving them brain damaged or even killing one of them , would that be proportionate ?

The whole point of the system on London's buses where every bus utterly without exception on TfL-contracted services has a cab for the driver impregnable to almost any type of feasible attack is that the driver (a) either sits and waits for police assistance or (b) in exceptional circumstances, drives to the nearest police station or other point, as directed. Now, a very wise man said rules are made to be broken, and so there must be circumstances where the driver might, and perhaps should, get out of his cab, but perhaps in all honesty not in this situation, however provoked. Having said that, I have a lot of sympathy with the driver and can see myself, having never been a professional driver, reacting similarly. I don't feel a sacking should necessarily have followed.

Exactly , the rules are there to protect the driver above everything else . what if one of them would have pulled a knife , it could have ended in tragedy and all that over a bit of verbal abuse and a bent mirror .

I fail to feel sympathy , if he was getting that wound up with them which we all do at times when dealing with the public he should have locked himself in the cab and pressed the panic button to summon assistance . Obviously if they would not allow him to move the mirror it was not safe to move the bus .

 

[yorkie]

Unfortunately when someone in such a position reacts like that, they can't remain in the job. So yes, it is right he lost his job even though he was severely provoked.

However there's no way he should have been convicted of anything, in my opinion.

I agree with 455Driver. This country panders to the chavs constantly; it's a chav paradise as they know they can wind people up with impunity. They are not generally bothered about convictions as it probably won't affect their job (if any).

I note that only 13% of people think he shouldn't have lost his job. I wonder what percentage have faith in our legal system? 1% maybe?

As I said before, "I don't have a lot of faith in our laws and legal system, which I think is a shambles." My mind isn't going to change!

 

[Abpj17]

Hmm, I'd say it would depend on his previous record. If he has a long and exemplary previous service then getting fired feels excessive given the circumstances - the tipping point is that a can was thrown at him (either full or sharp is dangerous) and there was enough to charge the two of them for affray.

The video is worth watching - he throws a punch at them before the can. But they mess about with the mirror several times (and he clearly can't leave the stand without the mirror being in the right place). When he's fixing the mirror for the first time, there is what looks to be intimidation of the driver. Each time after fixing the mirror he returns onto the bus. The two guys were very clearly provoking him.

 

[Antman]

So the driver drives off and this <deleted> puts his foot in front of the back wheel, cue Ambulance, Lawsuits and driver up in Court explaining why he didnt stop when he saw it in the mirror, and will then be asked why he didnt reset the mirror before driving off!

The driver was damned if he did or damned if he didnt!

I see no one has answered my question about why the driver should be the subject of verbal abuse to the point of retaliating!

No no no, I didn't say anything about driving off, he should have stayed exactly where he was until some assistance arrived and the local nick is just across the road so hopefully there should be a copper not too far away and the two chavs would have ended up where they belong, in a police cell.

Sadly in almost any public facing job these days verbal abuse is something you have to deal with and I'm sure the bus driver will have had training in how to deal with it. Just a guess, I might be wrong, but I can't help wondering whether he thought he'd take the opportunity to show what a 'hard man' he is and it's all backfired on him. Could you imagine the public outcry if a police officer had acted in this way?

 

[Bishopstone]

Whilst a galling incident, and I've no doubt these are a couple of nasty individuals, I don't buy into the sentiment that this sort of incident is increasing and the whole country is going to pot.

Crime is down, and the youth of today are far better behaved and more motivated than when I was that age, in the early nineties, despite facing greater pressures.

My sympathies to the driver. The red mist descended, but that is a human reaction to great provocation. Those who spend their working days in offices should always remember the challenges faced by colleagues dealing with the public alone, away from 'base'. Not just bad behaviour, but all of the other surprises you get from human interaction.

 

[MCR247]

Crime is down, and the youth of today are far better behaved and more motivated than when I was that age, in the early nineties, despite facing greater pressures.

I can't comment on young people in your day - but some people would have you believe that any person under 21 today is out robbing people, assaulting people etc.

 

[185]

Go-Ahead add their name to the other transport companies who have followed a path of stupidity with a walk away policy that 99% of the time protects the criminals.

In a benchmark court case, one major transport group, I'll call them 'AwfulGroup Plc' at first denied, then accepted that insurance companies (such as Travellers Ltd) offer lower premiums in return for a non-contact policy. AwfulGroup were keen to repeatedly cite the Health and Safety at Work Act, and their duty of care to protect employees, but I remember the judge himself shooting them down, over introducing the 'duty of care' phrase to the court - where UK law practically requires the uniformed employee to intervene in many situations, if he/she doesn't do anything, he/she too could end up in the dock.

You really cannot win. Well, unless the cameras accidentally suffer a glitch