PG
Established Member
Very sad news coming through from Elgin, thoughts to all affected...
Teenage boy arrested over death of Stagecoach bus driver
Teenage boy arrested over death of Stagecoach bus driver
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Bus driver dies after incident at Elgin bus station
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I was just reading about this when you posted. It's very sad news indeed.
The bus station remains closed, according to Bluebird's Twitter feed.
I'm both sad, and sickened, to hear this. We live in a very sad society these days - what on earth is it the world coming to when a bus driver is assaulted by a teenager and which ends up with the driver losing his life.
No bus driver should ever go to work and not return home.
My sentiments exactly, retired now, but after 40 years of being in passenger transport, I’m glad I don’t need to drive buses now!
I really feel for both the family of the poor driver, and for his colleagues who all have to carry on with this in their minds and the fear it inevitably causes.
I really feel for both the family of the poor driver, and for his colleagues who all have to carry on with this in their minds and the fear it inevitably causes.
Been following this all day, absolutely sad to hear this and condolences to the drivers family and friends at this difficult time. Like the other lad said, what kinda world are we in where people get attacked simply for doing their job? Absolute scumbag that teenager is.
This is why teenagers are wildy hated
The sad part is almost nothing will happen, even if he was jailed he’d only get 1-3 years at absolute most since our justice system is such a joke.
Karma will get that scumbag.
This is why teenagers are wildy hated
The sad part is almost nothing will happen, even if he was jailed he’d only get 1-3 years at absolute most since our justice system is such a joke.
Karma will get that scumbag.
This is rather over the top. We're talking about a single individual here and in no way are they representing the behaviour of all teenagers.
What happened last night was awful, but please do not tar everyone with the same brush.
Sorry, got a bit heated. Fair point
Is there actually any evidence that there are more assaults now than there were in (say) the 1980s?
This is a very sad incident and sadly I have to agree with others that the justice system is a joke, when it comes to dealing with violence, however it's a myth that things are a lot worse than they used to be.
I can pretty much guarantee that this 15 year old will have assaulted many teenagers before now; teenagers themselves are often victims of such odious individuals. The idea that teenagers generally are like this is based on reading a small number of very high profile news reports, which gives a very disproportionate impression of young people.
I've previously argued that the justice system isn't fit for purpose (and incidentally schools lack sufficient powers) but unfortunately the powers that be don't listen to people like us.
From other threads:
I made a thread a long time ago regarding a teenager who attempted to murder another teenager who I actually knew at the time:
Violent York thug is locked up (but not for very long)
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/10426581.Violent_teen_is_locked_up/?ref=mr Callum Thomas Tooley named after judge lifts reporting restriction A TEENAGER who damaged a man’s kidney with a knife and started an attack that put a younger boy in a coma for three weeks has been locked up. York’s...
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Gloster
Established Member
In the last couple of days a 16-year old was arrested in Newport (Wight) after hitting a bus driver with a bottle the bus station. It seems that the little scrote was banned from Southern Vectis but was trying to board a bus.
www.countypress.co.uk
Police arrest 16 year old after alleged bus driver attack
Police were called to a report of an assault at Newport Bus Station on Orchard Street, Newport, Isle of Wight.
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Narrowgauge725
Member
My father was 4' 11" started his bus days as a conductor before becoming a driver, no one ever got away with anything if he was on the bus. He feared nothing and couldn't half swing that ticket machine! Mind this was 70s and being walloped when you did something wrong was more the norm, now I suppose he would be done for assault and the teenager would be wrapped up and looked after.
I wouldn’t know if there is any evidence, however you only have to open your eyes, look at a newspaper, read a forum etc to see that times have changed.
Why do you think new buses are automatically fitted with assault screens? If there hadn’t been a rise in assaults since the 80’s they wouldn’t be needed would they.
If you are making the claim, the onus is on you to provide it
Did newspapers of decades ago not report violent incidents?
Back in the 1980s people said exactly what you are saying now about rises in cases:
Buses: Assaults on Staff (Hansard, 30 January 1985)
Buses: Assaults on Staff (Hansard, 30 January 1985)
api.parliament.uk
It's difficult to draw comparisons, but I found this from Dublin:
Protecting Dublin Bus Drivers
Dublin Bus fits security screens on buses after an increase in the number of attacks on drivers.
www.rte.ie
And 30 years later:
Dublin Bus drivers 'afraid of getting attacked' as grim stats released
EXCLUSIVE: "It is very upsetting that Dublin Bus drivers can't go to work without being afraid of getting attacked"
When you divide 429 by 5, you get to pretty much the same number.
It's common in many parts of the world for people to think crime rates are going up, when they're actually not:
Most people think the U.S. crime rate is rising. They're wrong.
Almost 80 percent of Americans, and 92 percent of Republicans, think crime has gone up. It actually fell in 2023. An expert blames a familiar culprit for the mistaken impression.
www.nbcnews.com
Public perception of crime higher despite falling figures, report says
Social Trends report shows two-thirds of people think crime is on rise, while statistics reveal it is at lowest level for 30 years
I still think we are far too soft on violent acts, however the idea that things are much worse than they used to be is a myth.
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PG
Established Member
I haven't gone searching for evidence so can't answer directly. However even if the number of assaults hasn't changed, I think that the outcomes have - more likelihood of being stabbed as some members of society are carrying dangerous weapons (blades/knives) routinely. Years ago it would usually be punches that were thrown.
Within a year of passing my PSV test I was assaulted, fortunately only minor injuries, and I remember older drivers advice was along the same lines as your father: a hefty wallop of the ticket machine being recommended!
Whistler40145
Established Member
Extremely sad news
But why do you think that?
There are some interesting articles on the subject, such as:
Could that factor be affecting your thoughts, perhaps?
I merely base my opinion on what I have experienced, the media may have a bearing on how some people think, my self - it’s based on being assaulted, having things thrown at me in the cab, being urinated over from the upper deck (via the periscope), punched and threatened by passengers and had people waiting for me at the depot!
Now, these incidents have happened over the 40 years I’ve been on the buses, have largely happened in the evenings and the average age of people committing these assaults has, over this 40 year period, come down in number!
This is not speculation, it’s not gleaned from the media but, what has happened to me.
Now, these incidents have happened over the 40 years I’ve been on the buses, have largely happened in the evenings and the average age of people committing these assaults has, over this 40 year period, come down in number!
This is not speculation, it’s not gleaned from the media but, what has happened to me.
Does anyone know whether any sort of collection has been organised for the family of the victim? It would be nice if some of us - especially those who are managing to argue about this tragedy- could offer some financial support to those who are grieving right now.
This is really sad to hear that these things have happened to you.
This is anecdotal evidence and isn't necessarily representative of experiences elsewhere; would you say the incidents have increased a lot in the past 40 years? (i'd imagine the periscope incidents are highly unlikely to be recent).
Having visited your neck of the woods* I am quite shocked that one driver would experience so much (*maybe you used to work elsewhere? either way it's still shocking and I am sorry to hear of this).
As I've consistently said, we are far too soft on the perpetrators of violence. The legal system has inadequacies and it needs to change. There also need to be other changes (which the resource I linked to above alludes to) to society to reduce youth disengagement and address some of the root causes.
But the evidence doesn't support the claims that crime is getting worse; it's a perception we have, based on what we read through the news, social media etc.
I don't think anyone is arguing about this tragedy; I think we're all agreed it is very sad, and and I think that many would agree that there is not enough done to avoid such incidents occurring, and not enough done to deal with the perpetrators when such shocking incidents occur.
If anyone becomes aware of a collection being arranged, please do post it here and I will contribute, as I am sure would many others.
I do really hope that as a society we can do much more to reduce, and ideally prevent, such incidents occurring in future, as at present we are not doing anywhere near enough, in my opinion.
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Not heard anything but if anything does get posted please can you let us know as the other lad has also said, I’d contribute
Difference between then and now being that we have 24/7 rolling news online and of course social media, it's easy to assume crime rates have shot up when the news surrounds you.
Back in the 80's, how long would it have taken me to learn of something like this happening in Elgin, when I live in Staffordshire, if I found out at all?
anthony263
Established Member
I've been sent home today from work as I was too badly shaken to continue driving this morning after I was threatened with being stabbed by a passenger at talbot Green bus station.
Its shocking the way the worlds going and its made me worry was sort of world my 4 year old daughter is growing up in
This driver was just trying to do his job and now his family have to grieve and suffer. Made me more paranoid now I dont ever want my wide and daughter to receive that phone call or knock at the door.
Its shocking the way the worlds going and its made me worry was sort of world my 4 year old daughter is growing up in
This driver was just trying to do his job and now his family have to grieve and suffer. Made me more paranoid now I dont ever want my wide and daughter to receive that phone call or knock at the door.
Really sorry to hear this. Hope you’re good now though
johncrossley
Established Member
The murder rate in Scotland (and England & Wales) isn't especially high by international standards and the murder rate in Scotland has been falling in recent years
en.wikipedia.org
news.stv.tv
The relatively low incidence of murder is why it is such big news when it happens. However, the BBC and other major news agencies are very biased in what they report. I wouldn't have known about this murder without reading this thread. The front page of the BBC news site has been dominated for days by a murder which happened some time ago. It is only newsworthy because it was of a pretty girl. This murder in Elgin should be more newsworthy, because it happened very recently, but it was of a middle aged man. Murders of black teenage boys in London happen on a regular basis and barely get a mention on regional news.
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia
Scotland's murder rate falls to lowest level since modern records began
Once dubbed the 'most violent country in the developed world' in a UN report, murders have fallen to the lowest level in almost 50 years.
The relatively low incidence of murder is why it is such big news when it happens. However, the BBC and other major news agencies are very biased in what they report. I wouldn't have known about this murder without reading this thread. The front page of the BBC news site has been dominated for days by a murder which happened some time ago. It is only newsworthy because it was of a pretty girl. This murder in Elgin should be more newsworthy, because it happened very recently, but it was of a middle aged man. Murders of black teenage boys in London happen on a regular basis and barely get a mention on regional news.
anthony263
Established Member
Was shaken up quite a bit that I got sent home. Then yesterday I saw the news about this poor driver has really driven it home what could have happened to myself yesterday.
I've come back to work today as I needed too otherwise I'm going to struggle to get back behind the wheel
The absolute number of homicides in the U.K. has roughly doubled between the late Victorian era and the start of the 21st century, according to government data (328 in 1898 up to 891 in 2001). However, the population roughly doubled over the same period, from about 31 million to about 60 million, suggesting that the homicide rate is fairly constant, despite the fact that access to guns and poisons was much easier in the earlier part of that period (probably why we see so many stabbing reports, as bladed weapons are the easiest to access now).The murder rate in Scotland (and England & Wales) isn't especially high by international standards and the murder rate in Scotland has been falling in recent years
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia
Scotland's murder rate falls to lowest level since modern records began
Once dubbed the 'most violent country in the developed world' in a UN report, murders have fallen to the lowest level in almost 50 years.
The relatively low incidence of murder is why it is such big news when it happens.
Sources: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7ac815ed915d71db8b26f4/rec-crime-1898-2002.xls
Of course, each statistical point is still a life lost and a world of grief, so for those actually touched by it, the fact that the murder rate isn’t any higher than it was is no consolation whatever.
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Bluebirdscot66
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I can relate to your situation as I too have had this , had someone stick a big knife in the assault screen it got stuck and I drove straight to the police station ( eraticily I must add ) which was just around the corner outside the bus stn I was at . Had the alarm going all the time as he was trying to kick my cab door in . Police gave chase . I had to keep working .No cctv in those days but he pled guilty. Have had a couple more incidents . Most recent was last year when I got threatened , by a female , with finding out where I lived and burning my house down a with my family in it ., that was because the bus stop was closed and had to go on to the next one which was less than 100 yards away . You could tell a lot more stories than the stats show too as some maybe don’t get reported
and those in Scotland have halved in the past 20 years since your (England and Wales) data ends - there were 52 last year, of which over half were known to their victim.
https://www.gov.scot/publications/homicide-scotland-2022-23/pages/12/
This is a dreadful incident, and everyone affected from the family to everyone else has my full sympathy. Every single homicide is one too many, and affects all of us. However, the rate is thankfully low.
As there have been a number of posts that aren't directly related to the main story and due to the sensitive nature of the situation, we've decided to pause the thread here. There is, of course, an ongoing police investigation.
When any further developments occur we'll update the thread in due course.
Update:
BBC news now reports that the driver has been named and that a suspect has been charged and will appear in court tomorrow.
When any further developments occur we'll update the thread in due course.
Update:
BBC news now reports that the driver has been named and that a suspect has been charged and will appear in court tomorrow.
Bus driver who died after alleged assault in Elgin named
The incident happened at a bus station in the St Giles Road area of the town on Friday night.
www.bbc.co.uk
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