Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

[Blindtraveler]

To be fair, I think orders for ADL EVs will pick up when operators start placing orders with the ZEBRA 2 money soon

So clearly just me hoping that the ADL bubble has burst now that far less diesels are being purchased and there are far better quality and better built electrics on the market

 

[MCR247]

I know they do but that isn't the point. We have perfectly decent manufacturers in the UK rather than boosting China's already big economy with the associated increase in their emissions that brings.

My local operator, Nottingham City Transport, have recently introduced their Yutong E10s and E12s. Having taken a fair few rides on both now, I can honestly say they are the best built buses I’ve ever used. If ADL or any other UK based manufacturer was capable of building to this standard I’d partly agree with you, but until then, I think operators should continue to go with the best quality they can afford.

 

[FOH]

China’s BYD nears deal to supply London’s electric double decker buses

China's BYD nears deal to supply London's electric double decker buses

Chinese automaker BYD is closing in on a deal that would see it supply all-electric double decker buses in London.

www.cityam.com

Some more on the new bus here:-

BYD aims to replace Routemaster with 400-mile EV London bus | Autocar

The BD11 has a battery capacity of 532kWh - the largest of any commercial EV currently available in the UK

www.autocar.co.uk

Liking the HVAC. Are we finally approaching the end of summer sweat boxes and steamy windows? Let's hope Wright and ADL do the same.

 

[GusB]

We'll leave the discussion about climate change and China there. It's off-topic for this thread.

 

[MotCO]

ADL would appear have some work to do given the lacklustre orders for their EVs so far (which is rather worrying).

I thought ADL had ceased coach production to concentrate on bus manufacture for the next year. Is this demand for diesels rather than EVs?

 

[37114]

I thought ADL had ceased coach production to concentrate on bus manufacture for the next year. Is this demand for diesels rather than EVs?

The article I linked to earlier in this thread said EVs. I guess that would be in readiness for the ZEBRA orders.

 

[Mikey C]

Isn't the ADL situation more that they are in an in-between phase in production between the ADL/BYD products, and their integral products?

 

[ClydeCoaster]

And I thought the Switch MetroCity was a vile looking thing. That BYD looks like something Corgi Juniors designed in the 1980s.

 

[Goldfish62]

To be fair, I think orders for ADL EVs will pick up when operators start placing orders with the ZEBRA 2 money soon

I do hope so - it feels like it's the last chance saloon for them.

I don't blame operators at all for going elsewhere if the product is better, but at the same I most certainly don't want to see ADL fail. It might be Canadian-owned these days, but it's still a stalwart of British bus manufacturing.

And I thought the Switch MetroCity was a vile looking thing. That BYD looks like something Corgi Juniors designed in the 1980s.

I'm reserving judgement until I see it the flesh. I wasn't keen on the BZLs as supplied to various London operators until I saw them for real.

It does however look better than the 5 BYD double decks supplied to Metroline in 2016, and now operated by Uno.

Talking of Uno, here's a fun quiz question for you, without going too OT:

What's the connection between Uno and BYD apart from Uno operating some BYDs?

 

[aswilliamsuk]

I do hope so - it feels like it's the last chance saloon for them.

I don't blame operators at all for going elsewhere if the product is better, but at the same I most certainly don't want to see ADL fail. It might be Canadian-owned these days, but it's still a stalwart of British bus manufacturing.


I'm reserving judgement until I see it the flesh. I wasn't keen on the BZLs as supplied to various London operators until I saw them for real.

It does however look better than the 5 BYD double decks supplied to Metroline in 2016, and now operated by Uno.

Talking of Uno, here's a fun quiz question for you, without going too OT:

What's the connection between Uno and BYD apart from Uno operating some BYDs?

Both have members of the Thorpe family involved, is it not?

As for ADL - Stagecoach had made clear they were intending on ordering ADL as first choice for their ZEBRA2 bids (certainly for the deckers, and that was a good proportion of the near 400 award they got), and I cannot imagine there won't be London orders announced for the E400EV in due course (the London 10.9m variant was only announced recently).

 

[Goldfish62]

Both have members of the Thorpe family involved, is it not?

Correct, brothers. Jim - MD of Uno, Frank, Head of BYD UK. Both used to run the erstwhile Frank Thorpe and Sons, a former tendered London bus operator.

 

[cnjb8]

I do hope so - it feels like it's the last chance saloon for them.

I don't blame operators at all for going elsewhere if the product is better, but at the same I most certainly don't want to see ADL fail. It might be Canadian-owned these days, but it's still a stalwart of British bus manufacturing.


I'm reserving judgement until I see it the flesh. I wasn't keen on the BZLs as supplied to various London operators until I saw them for real.

It does however look better than the 5 BYD double decks supplied to Metroline in 2016, and now operated by Uno.

Talking of Uno, here's a fun quiz question for you, without going too OT:

What's the connection between Uno and BYD apart from Uno operating some BYDs?

Surely ADL must have faith in their EVs if they've given up coach production to make way for them

 

[MotCO]

The new BYD double decker is said to have an efficiency greater than 0.9 miles per kWh (#2362) and a range of over 400 miles. If I have done my maths correctly, this is 0.62 km per kWh (567 kWh version). (Source - post #2362) The AD400EV with the new AD chassis is quoted as 0.67 km per kWh and range of 385 miles, (472 kWh version), and the Wright Electroliner 0.75 km per kWh and a range of 300 miles (454 kWh version). (Source https://www.zemo.org.uk/work-with-us/buses-coaches/low-emission-buses/certificates-hub.htm)

So it seems that the new BYD is more efficient and has a longer range than the British contenders. All that seems to be unknown is seating capacity.

 

[GusB]

All that seems to be unknown is seating capacity.

Up to 90, according to this:

BYD aims to make battery-electric 'viable' with BD11 double-decker - routeone

New 10.9m-long BYD BD11 to be operational in London within months, with single-decker plus models for outside the capital by mid-2025.

www.route-one.net

BYD’s Blade battery has been integrated into the chassis to save a claimed 8% in the overall weight of the BD11, increase driving range and leave more room for passengers – in this case up to 90.

The article doesn't make it clear if that's 90 seats, or total capacity, though.

It also includes technical data, but it's presented in image form, unfortunately.

 

[PG]

The article doesn't make it clear if that's 90 seats, or total capacity, though.

Must be total capacity - I don't believe that it'd be possible to have 90 seats within a total length of 10.9 metres.

 

[Eyersey468]

Up to 90, according to this:

BYD aims to make battery-electric 'viable' with BD11 double-decker - routeone

New 10.9m-long BYD BD11 to be operational in London within months, with single-decker plus models for outside the capital by mid-2025.

www.route-one.net

The article doesn't make it clear if that's 90 seats, or total capacity, though.

It also includes technical data, but it's presented in image form, unfortunately.

I would say that is total capacity

Must be total capacity - I don't believe that it'd be possible to have 90 seats within a total length of 10.9 metres.

Nor do I

 

[joieman]

Must be total capacity - I don't believe that it'd be possible to have 90 seats within a total length of 10.9 metres.

Having found some photos of the interior, I would estimate that the BD11 has 21 seats downstairs and 40 upstairs. The seats are ISRI Civic seats.

 

[PG]

I would say that is total capacity


Nor do I

Speculative estimate would be around 47 seats upstairs and 18 downstairs so giving 25 standees.

 

[Bornin1980s]

Won't the BYDs actually be built in Hungary?

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

BYD build double deckers for the Chinese market, so they might prefer to build the BD11 in China alongside other double decker models, at least to begin with.

(Photo shows a BYD double decker in Xi'an.)

File:Bus №833 in Xi'an, March 26 2023.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

 

[Mikw]

My local operator, Nottingham City Transport, have recently introduced their Yutong E10s and E12s. Having taken a fair few rides on both now, I can honestly say they are the best built buses I’ve ever used. If ADL or any other UK based manufacturer was capable of building to this standard I’d partly agree with you, but until then, I think operators should continue to go with the best quality they can afford.

Seconded. We've had Yutongs in Leicester for a few years now, they're great. Warm in the winter and cool in the summer.
We've also got a load of recently introduced Wright electrics too. They're very nice as well, but they're really cold in the winter and no air con for the summer.
Shame, as i'm all for "Buy British", but the passenger experience on the Yutongs is superior.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Seconded. We've had Yutongs in Leicester for a few years now, they're great. Warm in the winter and cool in the summer.
We've also got a load of recently introduced Wright electrics too. They're very nice as well, but they're really cold in the winter and no air con for the summer.
Shame, as i'm all for "Buy British", but the passenger experience on the Yutongs is superior.

Apologies if already mentioned but I'd expect that the presence or absence, and effectiveness, of heating, ventilation and cooling systems are entirely down to operator specifications when ordered (and thereafter the maintenance of those systems by the operator).

 

[Goldfish62]

Seconded. We've had Yutongs in Leicester for a few years now, they're great. Warm in the winter and cool in the summer.
We've also got a load of recently introduced Wright electrics too. They're very nice as well, but they're really cold in the winter and no air con for the summer.
Shame, as i'm all for "Buy British", but the passenger experience on the Yutongs is superior.

It does seem to be a general fault with the Wrightbus EVs. They come with a heat pump to provide HVAC as standard, but for whatever reason it's not doing the job.

 

[Beemax]

Call me cynical, but I'm a bit worried about this increasing reliance on Chinese technology.

But looking on the bright side, at least they'll probably know where you live so they can take you all the way home.

 

[Goldfish62]

Call me cynical, but I'm a bit worried about this increasing reliance on Chinese technology.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to be concerned or at least aware of the potential impacts and risks.

 

[GusB]

The heating issue has been discussed already:

Heating in electric buses

Mod note: thread split from here https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/bus-manufacturer-news-discussion.185467/ ADL published a few shots of their E100EV demonstrator at Millbrook today. Looks like the driver felt a bit chilly - wrapped up in a scarf. Maybe instructed not to put the heating on...

www.railforums.co.uk

The subject of relying on China and its technology is off-topic for this section of the forum.

 

[ClydeCoaster]

The new BYD double decker is said to have an efficiency greater than 0.9 miles per kWh (#2362) and a range of over 400 miles. If I have done my maths correctly, this is 0.62 km per kWh (567 kWh version). (Source - post #2362) The AD400EV with the new AD chassis is quoted as 0.67 km per kWh and range of 385 miles, (472 kWh version), and the Wright Electroliner 0.75 km per kWh and a range of 300 miles (454 kWh version). (Source https://www.zemo.org.uk/work-with-us/buses-coaches/low-emission-buses/certificates-hub.htm)

So it seems that the new BYD is more efficient and has a longer range than the British contenders. All that seems to be unknown is seating capacity.

Does anyone know what the km/kWh rate and range is for the Yutong UD11?

 

[Volvodart]

Does anyone know what the km/kWh rate and range is for the Yutong UD11?

Per https://www.zemo.org.uk/work-with-u...ficates-hub/view,yutong-u11dd-385kwh_4557.htm

385kWh and up to 491km respectively

 

[Goldfish62]

The new BYD double decker is said to have an efficiency greater than 0.9 miles per kWh (#2362) and a range of over 400 miles. If I have done my maths correctly, this is 0.62 km per kWh (567 kWh version). (Source - post #2362) The AD400EV with the new AD chassis is quoted as 0.67 km per kWh and range of 385 miles, (472 kWh version), and the Wright Electroliner 0.75 km per kWh and a range of 300 miles (454 kWh version). (Source https://www.zemo.org.uk/work-with-us/buses-coaches/low-emission-buses/certificates-hub.htm)

So it seems that the new BYD is more efficient and has a longer range than the British contenders. All that seems to be unknown is seating capacity.

One thing it does show is how quickly things are evolving and range is improving. There's a huge potential market out there and manufacturers are constantly battling to get ahead of the game.

 

[MotCO]

One thing it does show is how quickly things are evolving and range is improving. There's a huge potential market out there and manufacturers are constantly battling to get ahead of the game.

Which in a way does not help operators who presumably would like a standardised fleet.