Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

[Goldfish62]

There are apparently several right hand drive dual door (TfL spec?) red double deckers currently at Bristol docks. They carry BYD lettering on the front, but clearly not bodied by ADL. I wonder if these might be BYD 'integral' vehicles and, if so, what this means for the BYD/ADL partnership?Especially now ADL have their own fully in-house EV chassis range.

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Yes, there's much discussion about these on Facebook right now.

They are definitely BYD integrals, apparently with technological improvements. The E400 City bodywork is no longer compliant for TfL work because of the frontal geometry and maybe ADL are unwilling to graft the E400EV front onto the design.

What's surprised me and others is how they were kept under wraps. And which operator they're for.

 

[Mikey C]

I thought ADL said that they still wanted to continue selling bodying BYD chassis, or is that just the E200EV?

 

[GusB]

I thought ADL said that they still wanted to continue selling bodying BYD chassis, or is that just the E200EV?

The only BYD offering on the AD website is the E200EV XLB for the New Zealand market, so presumably the company has discontinued the double-deck offering. It's understandable now that it has its own EV product.

Buses & Coaches | Alexander Dennis

www.alexander-dennis.com

 

[Whatshappin]

The only BYD offering on the AD website is the E200EV XLB for the New Zealand market, so presumably the company has discontinued the double-deck offering. It's understandable now that it has its own EV product.

Buses & Coaches | Alexander Dennis

www.alexander-dennis.com

Yeah looks like ADL BYD is over for new orders in the UK

The only BYD offering on the AD website is the E200EV XLB for the New Zealand market, so presumably the company has discontinued the double-deck offering. It's understandable now that it has its own EV product.

Buses & Coaches | Alexander Dennis

www.alexander-dennis.com

they also had a shared website for information on the partnership, evbus.co.uk which now just defaults to the AD website

 

[Goldfish62]

The only BYD offering on the AD website is the E200EV XLB for the New Zealand market, so presumably the company has discontinued the double-deck offering. It's understandable now that it has its own EV product.

Buses & Coaches | Alexander Dennis

www.alexander-dennis.com

Oh yes. Very recent because BYD offers appeared on there only a couple of weeks ago.

First appearance of images of the E200EV as well.

 

[GusB]

Oh yes. Very recent because BYD offers appeared on there only a couple of weeks ago.

First appearance of images of the E200EV as well.

Yes, I did spot the new E200EV. I think it has only been about a week or so since I last visited so it's definitely a recent change. They seem to have kept that quiet!

 

[johnw]

Looks like the Volvo B8L ADL Enviro400XLB has been dropped as that is missing from the new website.

 

[37114]

Looks like the Volvo B8L ADL Enviro400XLB has been dropped as that is missing from the new website.

Surprised coaches are still listed bearing in mind it has been a reported they have suspended production for 2 years..

 

[Mikey C]

Yes, I did spot the new E200EV. I think it has only been about a week or so since I last visited so it's definitely a recent change. They seem to have kept that quiet!

Weird to have an incredibly important model just appear on the website like that, without any press launch.

 

[Bayum]

Yes, there's much discussion about these on Facebook right now.

They are definitely BYD integrals, apparently with technological improvements. The E400 City bodywork is no longer compliant for TfL work because of the frontal geometry and maybe ADL are unwilling to graft the E400EV front onto the design.

What's surprised me and others is how they were kept under wraps. And which operator they're for.

What is the issue with the geometry?

 

[joieman]

What is the issue with the geometry?

TFL is requiring new buses in London to have a raked front to deflect a person should, God forbid, the bus strike a person. This is also why the Wright Streetdeck Electroliner and GB Kite Electroliner have had their front ends redesigned.

 

[Bayum]

TFL is requiring new buses in London to have a raked front to deflect a person should, God forbid, the bus strike a person. This is also why the Wright Streetdeck Electroliner and GB Kite Electroliner have had their front ends redesigned.

Is this the ‘stealth’ front?

 

[MCR247]

Is this the ‘stealth’ front?

No that was a design choice by Wright quite a few years ago.

If you look at the new Enviro 100/200/400 EVs you’ll see their front end looks different to the other ADL products, and has some aspects in common with the Wrightbus GB Kite or whatever it is called. This is as a result of the new TfL requirements.

 

[joieman]

No that was a design choice by Wright quite a few years ago.

If you look at the new Enviro 100/200/400 EVs you’ll see their front end looks different to the other ADL products, and has some aspects in common with the Wrightbus GB Kite or whatever it is called. This is as a result of the new TfL requirements.

Yes, the Stealth front was introduced in 2014 (it's been this long already?). What we're talking about is the facelift which debuted last year and has thus far has appeared on Electroliners for Abellio/Transport UK, the Oxford Bus Company and Stagecoach. Peculiarly, though, no images of the facelifted version are on Wright's website.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yes, the Stealth front was introduced in 2014 (it's been this long already?). What we're talking about is the facelift which debuted last year and has thus far has appeared on Electroliners for Abellio/Transport UK, the Oxford Bus Company and Stagecoach. Peculiarly, though, no images of the facelifted version are on Wright's website.

It's questionable whether the facelifted front would have been introduced had it not been for TfL requirements. As it happens I rather like it and I think it certainly suits the Kite more than the Stealth front.

 

[joieman]

It's questionable whether the facelifted front would have been introduced had it not been for TfL requirements. As it happens I rather like it and I think it certainly suits the Kite more than the Stealth front.

Yes, it was probably about time. The new front has a completely different dynamic to the Stealth front: while the latter possessed a very angular appearance, it looked rather smiley. The new front, however, is more rounded, yet looks quite aggressive. I do think it has fixed the appearance of the low-height Streetdeck, as I never really liked the low-height versions of the Streetdeck (and the Gemini 2/3) until the facelifted version rolled out last year.

 

[citybus2500]

Yes, there's much discussion about these on Facebook right now.

They are definitely BYD integrals, apparently with technological improvements. The E400 City bodywork is no longer compliant for TfL work because of the frontal geometry and maybe ADL are unwilling to graft the E400EV front onto the design.

What's surprised me and others is how they were kept under wraps. And which operator they're for.

BYD are launching the BD11 on 21st May. They have at least a chuncky number on order for London operations.

 

[MotCO]

They have at least a chuncky number on order for London operations.

For the integral BYD double decker? I thought there were orders for the BYD / E400, but I have not seen any orders for the integral BYD or the integral E400.

 

[cnjb8]

For the integral BYD double decker? I thought there were orders for the BYD / E400, but I have not seen any orders for the integral BYD or the integral E400.

A couple of integral BYD deckers have been seen at Bristol Docks and on the M4 to London in the past few weeks

 

[Goldfish62]

A couple of integral BYD deckers have been seen at Bristol Docks and on the M4 to London in the past few weeks

Yes, comments on Facebook claim there's a significant batch heading to a London operator, not just a demonstrator. If so the order has been kept extremely quiet!

 

[Mollman]

Yes, comments on Facebook claim there's a significant batch heading to a London operator, not just a demonstrator. If so the order has been kept extremely quiet!

And that operator is taking a gamble given the lack of a demonstrator being tried beforehand

 

[Goldfish62]

And that operator is taking a gamble given the lack of a demonstrator being tried beforehand

Absolutely.

 

[ChrisPJ]

An operator who considered buying them told me the reason Mellor Sigmas weren't selling was because they were more expensive than other types

Are Mellor still offering the Sigma range?

Their website no longer seems to contain anything about them.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Are Mellor still offering the Sigma range?

Their website no longer seems to contain anything about them.

The page for the Sigma throws up an Error 404 now, having had a quick look on the web archives the page was still active as recently as the 24th of April so it has definitely been removed in the past few weeks. - https://www.mellorbus.com/vehicles/sigma/

Further to that the last examples to be registered were three months ago.

 

[Goldfish62]

If you look at the new Enviro 100/200/400 EVs you’ll see their front end looks different to the other ADL products, and has some aspects in common with the Wrightbus GB Kite or whatever it is called. This is as a result of the new TfL requirements.

And the Volvo / MCV BZL from designed from the start to comply with TfL requirements.

The Irizar ieTram already complies - probably a complete coincidence. Switch and Yutong products visibly don't comply.

 

[MotCO]

The page for the Sigma throws up an Error 404 now, having had a quick look on the web archives the page was still active as recently as the 24th of April so it has definitely been removed in the past few weeks. - https://www.mellorbus.com/vehicles/sigma/

Further to that the last examples to be registered were three months ago.

There's nothing on the Dumarey Group website about buses - just technology products. I wonder if they bought the company for their Intellectual Property rather than the buses themselves, although I thought the Mellor electric buses were just a rebadging of a Chinese product.

 

[PG]

The page for the Sigma throws up an Error 404 now, having had a quick look on the web archives the page was still active as recently as the 24th of April so it has definitely been removed in the past few weeks. - https://www.mellorbus.com/vehicles/sigma/

Further to that the last examples to be registered were three months ago.

Interestingly the vehicle range page still links to the Electric Bus page which introduces the Sigma, the 404 error only occurs when attempting to follow that link.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

And the Volvo / MCV BZL from designed from the start to comply with TfL requirements.

The Irizar ieTram already complies - probably a complete coincidence. Switch and Yutong products visibly don't comply.

Switch absolutely do comply - they had the revised front end to do so. It's likely why they've been doing well on small-bus requirements in London of late, as their MetroCities are pretty much the only vehicles that size that do comply at the moment.

And that operator is taking a gamble given the lack of a demonstrator being tried beforehand

I suspect that the operator in question is well used to BYD products, so the next iteration of the product is unlikely to have caused them too much trouble. In addition, I cannot imagine - especially if they've placed a large order - that they weren't involved in development in some way or form.

This wouldn't be unusual - recall that Wilts & Dorset ordered over 80 Solos from the drawing board after being involved in development, and while the original examples are all gone, they still use large numbers of the type to this day.

 

[Goldfish62]

Switch absolutely do comply - they had the revised front end to do so. It's likely why they've been doing well on small-bus requirements in London of late, as their MetroCities are pretty much the only vehicles that size that do comply at the moment.

Compliance hasn't been required up until the very most recent orders. You only have to look at the front to see the geometry doesn't comply with what TfL specifies in terms of angles. All they've done is conceal the wipers spindles. Only thing I can think of is that they've got an exemption if what you say is true, but I don't see why they would given the lengths other manufacturers have gone to to redesign the bodywork.

The AD EV100 fully complies and competes directly with the smallest Metrocity.

 

[joieman]

Compliance hasn't been required up until the very most recent orders. You only have to look at the front to see the geometry doesn't comply with what TfL specifies in terms of angles. All they've done is conceal the wipers spindles. Only thing I can think of is that they've got an exemption if what you say is true, but I don't see why they would given the lengths other manufacturers have gone to to redesign the bodywork.

And I must say that that thing on the front of the Switch buses makes them look absolutely hideous.