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Bus operators that have an exact fare policy.

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miklcct

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I hate the exact fare policy. Thank goodness it is not more common. It is so unfriendly. Whenever i am in an area with a bus operator that uses exact fare i will go out of my way to find an alternative bus route run by a bus operator that gives change. I often do not have the exact fare on me.

I'd like the exact fare policy to become universal, just what happens in Hong Kong. It's so annoying to have the driver count changes because it takes so much time, that a single passenger can consume over 20 seconds at the door and delay the whole bus. Hong Kong has already had this policy since the 70s in order to get rid of the conductor on buses (previously fare was paid to a conductor), and by law the fare has to be clearly shown at the farebox.

London Buses are the best in the country (as demonstrated by the ridership) and I believe the whole country should learn from their operation, including two-door buses, headway-based scheduling, etc.
 
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philthetube

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Electronic ticket machines cause slow boarding more than giving change, It used to be normal to be able to board 70 people on a bus, using an almex or Tim within 5 mins, I defy any driver to do that now, and this was with all passengers paying cash.
 

GusB

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I'd like the exact fare policy to become universal, just what happens in Hong Kong. It's so annoying to have the driver count changes because it takes so much time, that a single passenger can consume over 20 seconds at the door and delay the whole bus. Hong Kong has already had this policy since the 70s in order to get rid of the conductor on buses (previously fare was paid to a conductor), and by law the fare has to be clearly shown at the farebox.

London Buses are the best in the country (as demonstrated by the ridership) and I believe the whole country should learn from their operation, including two-door buses, headway-based scheduling, etc.
It is simply not necessary in all parts of the country. It requires investment in equipment, both on and off the bus - equipment which will likely become obsolete in a few years as more people begin using electronic payments.

Cash payments could be speeded up significantly if passengers knew what they had to pay before boarding the bus. Things like showing all fares information on websites, and maybe having up-to-date bus stop information... (A thread for that already exists!)
 

Typhoon

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Some operators who did introduce fareboxes when urban OPO became a thing found that overall takings didn't match what they should have been, as drivers weren't too bothered what went in to the box, as no individual driver could be held accountable for what any bus ended up with at the end of the day.
Broadly correct. Many urban operators went for fareboxes simply because when they moved to One Person Operation OPO (or as it was at the time OMO - most staff were men), then there was a view that it would speed up boarding and so the loss of conductors wouldn't be felt so much. There was also the reduction on the amount of extra work placed on drivers, and the security aspect; not so much the issue of fiddling (which could happen with conductors) but that instead of the relative safety of a two man crew, you would have one person who could be robbed.
My first experience of farebox operation was in Birmingham in the early'70s. I think you are right, it was about the speed of boarding. not that the driver's couldn't be bothered. Rarely passengers could ask others whether they had change; otherwise, if they didn't have enough, it might be a question of 'pay what you've got' (although I suspect drivers knew those who habitually tried to underpay). Also, many's the time I witnessed the pile-on during the evening peak in Navigation Street or John Bright Street, the numbers waiting to board were quite often more than would fit on the bus (and many more than were supposed to fit on the bus). There is no way that the driver could check the amount put in the hopper for everyone that got on. There was a pretty good inspection programme, several inspectors boarded at one time, sometimes supported by Her Majesty's Constabulary but I can't remember these really taking place during the peaks.
One reason why farebox operation was a decent solution was that the fares were low, the max would be somewhere in the region of 20p in the early days. A driver could see whether the amount was right or about right in seconds. Now, unless the company has a policy of very few different fares (on the route I used to use, 45 minutes end to end, there are two for adults), checking the fare if the passenger has raided the money box to find change might take as long or even longer than if the had offered a five pound note, and the driver had had to give change.
With card payment becoming more prevalent and a steady number of passengers using passes (paid or unpaid), exact fare is probably not so important.

A tangent: 'most staff were men'. I remember there were just two women drivers on the Pershore Road routes. I think the first women drivers I had come across. One has exceptional, guaranteed smooth ride (particularly useful if you were standing), you'd be at the destination before you knew it. If I had any doubts about the ability of women to drive buses, they were dispelled.

I'd like the exact fare policy to become universal, just what happens in Hong Kong. It's so annoying to have the driver count changes because it takes so much time, that a single passenger can consume over 20 seconds at the door and delay the whole bus. Hong Kong has already had this policy since the 70s in order to get rid of the conductor on buses (previously fare was paid to a conductor), and by law the fare has to be clearly shown at the farebox.

London Buses are the best in the country (as demonstrated by the ridership) and I believe the whole country should learn from their operation, including two-door buses, headway-based scheduling, etc.
If they had been introduced years ago, when many more people used the bus, it would probably have been a good idea but now, we are trying to get as many as possible to use public transport, we probably need as few obstacles as possible.
Is it a single fare, for any distance? Once you rack up 6 or 7 price points, where the potential passenger does not know the fare when they get on so has to find, say, £5.70, when their 'usual' journey is £4.60, you will soon eat up 20 seconds. If it is a flat fare (or a short hop and one other fare), getting the fare right so those that travel a fairly short distance don't feel they are subsidising those travelling some way, particularly if there are few of the latter because much of the route is rural, is a difficult balancing act.
 

miklcct

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If they had been introduced years ago, when many more people used the bus, it would probably have been a good idea but now, we are trying to get as many as possible to use public transport, we probably need as few obstacles as possible.
Is it a single fare, for any distance? Once you rack up 6 or 7 price points, where the potential passenger does not know the fare when they get on so has to find, say, £5.70, when their 'usual' journey is £4.60, you will soon eat up 20 seconds. If it is a flat fare (or a short hop and one other fare), getting the fare right so those that travel a fairly short distance don't feel they are subsidising those travelling some way, particularly if there are few of the latter because much of the route is rural, is a difficult balancing act.

London Buses have already got rid of cash operation many years ago - this should be learnt by other urban bus operators as well.

However, this isn't feasible for rural operation because one can't expect to find a place to conduct cash transaction nearby, and the speed of boarding isn't a big deal too on rural routes, so they can be kept as-is. This is also the approach used in Prague as well that all urban ticketing is already moved off the vehicle (by installing ticket machines on street), while pay on boarding with change is still kept with rural routes.
 

Sprinter107

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I'm all for exact fare buses with fare boxes. I suppose its because that's what I was brought up with, and its what I'm used to. West Midlands buses had very little dwell time at stops, and could swallow up a crowd in no time. If i used Midland Red buses, you certainly could see the difference in efficiency, those buses sometimes taking ages at bus stops. I used to get very impatient on those Midland Red buses I remember, as they seemed to be at the bus stop for ages, while the driver counted the money, counted the change, then gave the ticket. The journeys seemed to take ages compared to West Midlands buses.
 

Hophead

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Metrobus are to resume giving change from this Saturday (7th May). Not sure about Brighton & Hove, though I don't suppose that many of their drivers see a lot of cash on a typical day.
 
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