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bus pass confiscated and took to the council

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sum1739472

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Hi please please respond to this message because I have bad anxiety right now am I’m panicking. I went onto a bus today I was rushing for uni and I used my mums bus pass. As soon as I got on the bus the bus driver beeped it with no issues and I sat down normally but then 2 bus inspectors I’m not sure what they were but they came and asked everyone for their receipts and bus tickets or bus passes, they came to me and took a look at my bus pass and saw it isn’t me and confiscated it and fined me £50 along with sending the bus pass to the council. I’m not sure what to do now or what to hope for I’m really scared please someone let know and give me some advice
 
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Hadders

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Welcome to the forum!.

We need to know which bus company you were travelling with. We give advice on rail ticketing irregularities and aren't experts on bus ticketing issues, although there are some similarities which we might be able to assist with, especially if you are dealing with Transport for London (which based on your location I doubt).
 

Roger1973

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Is this First Buses in Leicester? They seem to have started doing revenue protection again recently, and have a 'standard fare' of £ 50 (Leicester Mercury article here) Although other operators may do similar.

Firstly, this is technically not a 'fine' (which can only be imposed by a court - and the journalist ought to know better) and would not - on its own - lead to a criminal record or anything like that.

Did the revenue protection officer take your name and address or any sort of statement from you? Or advise you of any action (other than returning the pass to the council) they intend to take?

While I am not a lawyer or police officer or anything connected with either line, my understanding is that this could be prosecuted as fraud, and some councils do now seek to prosecute, although I think it's relatively unusual still. I'm not sure in the circumstances if it would be up to the bus operator or the council to bring a prosecution (if they felt so inclined.)

In most places where there is a standard fare / penalty fare, usually if you get charged that, it's the end of the matter - if they are intending to prosecute, then they generally won't issue a penalty fare in the first place but will tell you that you'll be hearing from them.

As the pass is a statutory entitlement, I'm not sure if the council can refuse to re-issue a pass to your mother in the circumstances, although they may wait for her to report the pass lost or stolen before re-issuing it. And again from the perspective of a legal lay-person, I wonder if there is a chance your mother could also at least be asked questions by Police if it happens again, as to whether she has intentionally lent you the pass.
 

Gloster

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A bit of googling suggests that it is the issuing authority that will decide what sanction to apply, if any. However, there is very little information available on a national basis, but there might be something on the issuing authority’s website.
 

island

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As the pass is a statutory entitlement, I'm not sure if the council can refuse to re-issue a pass to your mother in the circumstances, although they may wait for her to report the pass lost or stolen before re-issuing it. And again from the perspective of a legal lay-person, I wonder if there is a chance your mother could also at least be asked questions by Police if it happens again, as to whether she has intentionally lent you the pass.
Some councils in these circumstances will ask the passholder whether the pass was lent willingly. If the passholder says it was, then they may have it withdrawn for misuse and/or be prosecuted for transferring it. If they say it wasn’t, they will be expected to make a police report for theft.
 

Deafdoggie

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this is technically not a 'fine' (which can only be imposed by a court - and the journalist ought to know better)
I believe the journalist was just using the word "fine" in the dictionary definition meaning & the meaning everyone other than members of this forum use it.
 

spag23

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Some councils in these circumstances will ask the passholder whether the pass was lent willingly. If the passholder says it was, then they may have it withdrawn for misuse and/or be prosecuted for transferring it. If they say it wasn’t, they will be expected to make a police report for theft.
But if the ticket was returned to its usual place at home after each use, the holder may not have been aware of its use; so would know of no theft to report.
 
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If you’re using a pass that isn’t yours, bus company staff are allowed to confiscate it. It’s a bit unlucky you ran into what sounds like an RPO who will also dish out a penalty, unlike if a driver had seen it wasn’t your pass, they probably would’ve just taken the pass off you and charged you a full fare for your journey. This is one to chalk up to experience, pay and move on with your life I’m afraid - good news is that unlike a rail “penalty fare”, this one is completely unrecordable as far as I know. Think of it like a parking ticket, pay and it goes away forever and you never have to worry about it again.

I know some depots even give “rewards” for every misused/expired pass confiscated, I know FSY Doncaster used to give £1 each time a driver handed in a dud pass, for example.

As for taken it to the council, that’s the process when a pass is confiscated. Confiscate > hand to depot management > they hand to council.
Most likely the owner of the pass will receive some sort of letter asking if they knew it was being used and asked to pay a small nominal amount to get a replacement. If there’s a pattern of misuse, the owner of the pass can lose their entitlement to the pass full stop.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Some councils in these circumstances will ask the passholder whether the pass was lent willingly. If the passholder says it was, then they may have it withdrawn for misuse and/or be prosecuted for transferring it. If they say it wasn’t, they will be expected to make a police report for theft.
Is there any way of truthfully responding to these double-edged questions which don't then have "lose-lose" consequences?
 

Bletchleyite

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Is there any way of truthfully responding to these double-edged questions which don't then have "lose-lose" consequences?

"No comment"?

Is there a term or condition or legislation that would allow the Council not to reissue the pass unless such a question was answered? Or is its issue a simple legal entitlement?
 

greatkingrat

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Theft requires the intention to permanently deprive the owner of the pass. So if you say the pass was used without permission, that does not necessarily mean it was stolen.

Even if the pass was reported to the police as stolen, the chances of them actually doing anything about it seems very unlikely.
 

Haywain

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Is there a term or condition or legislation that would allow the Council not to reissue the pass unless such a question was answered? Or is its issue a simple legal entitlement?
There is a charge for the issue of replacements, unless they are reported as stolen. That at least provides a small safeguard.
 

Statto

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Bus passes are not transferable, & can only be used by the pass holder, it should state this on the back of the pass too, the OPs mum could be in trouble too for knowingly lending her pass in the first place.
There is a charge for the issue of replacements, unless they are reported as stolen. That at least provides a small safeguard.

Yep, i had to replace my pass, before the passes expiry date a few years ago because the print became so worn it made it unreadable (this is when you had to show your pass to the driver) it cost me £10 to replace the pass
 

duncombec

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As you say it will be handed to the council, I assume this is an older persons or disabled persons bus pass, issued under the English National Concessionary Travel Scheme (ENCTS), which are a standard format across the country. Not knowing what your own pass looks like, or if it's in a wallet or anything like that, you could have some explaining to do.

In the first instance, you'll need to tell your mum, as I strongly suspect she'll need to take it from there in regard to getting it returned or reissued. I would advise that she contact the issuing local authority (be that Leicester City or Leicestershire), and explain what happened. It's not something we see a lot here, but it may help if you could provide them with evidence that you have your own pass (especially if it's also a white card with a photo and a logo on, or in a similar wallet). They may be sympathetic, they may not be.

As for you, your dealings will be with the bus company. Again, if you can present them with evidence that you have your own pass, fully paid for, you may be able to get the pass returned before the council are involved - it depends how quickly they process them... it may not even be back in the depot yet, depending on how often the inspector goes back). You were travelling without a valid ticket so your penalty fare was issued correctly, but speaking to them might cut off further steps.

The downside is that bus companies tend to have centralised (i.e. nationwide) customer service centres, so if there is any contact details on the back of any paperwork, use those as they will go to the right department.
 

Haywain

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Not knowing what your own pass looks like, or if it's in a wallet or anything like that, you could have some explaining to do.
I don't see anything that suggests to me that the OP has their own bus pass.
 

duncombec

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I don't see anything that suggests to me that the OP has their own bus pass.
Very good point - Reading back over the first message, it looks like I "read that in" with the rushing for uni and assumed the wrong one was picked up.

If the OP does not have their own pass, or it looks wildly different, there will be much more of an emphasis on wanting to know why the pass was used, and it may be harder to have it returned or reissued.
 

gray1404

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The most simple solution here is for the pass holder to report their pass as lost and pay the replacement fee. It will then be cancelled and a new one issued. As for the OP they should not engage further with the bus company so as not to dig a hole.
 

Spaceship323

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As OP goes to uni they would surely have their own First Group student pass?

 
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