Bus SPAD procedure?

[yorkie]

Anyone know what procedure should occur when a bus passes a red signal?

A bus I was on yesterday did this and the driver just carried on as normal.

Am I right in thinking that bus drivers can just get away with it, in contrast to train drivers?:x

 

[Max]

This happens literally all the time. Buses think they are just above the law on the road - speeding, passing red lights, not stopping at zebra crossings...you name it, they do it! Mind you, if they got caught on a speed camera they would probably be sacked. But the problem is they never get caught!

 

[Mojo]

Happens all the time, especially if they're late. Sadly, the best way of making up time IMO (not issuing tickets or collecting fares) is not used.

 

[theblackwatch]

This happens literally all the time. Buses think they are just above the law on the road - speeding, passing red lights, not stopping at zebra crossings...you name it, they do it! Mind you, if they got caught on a speed camera they would probably be sacked. But the problem is they never get caught!

Bit like cyclists, who also fail to stop at zebra crossings, and worse still, ride on footpaths a lot of the time - this seems to have become a common thing in recent years, and they expect me to move out of the way. :mad:

 

[Zane Andrew Saxton]

Eww, buses! - they always pull in front of me.

 

[Callufrax]

I'd almost been bowled over, on several occasions, at Piccadilly Gardens. Arriva and UK North/GM Buses are/were the worst offenders.

 

[trains2]

Bit like cyclists, who also fail to stop at zebra crossings, and worse still, ride on footpaths a lot of the time - this seems to have become a common thing in recent years, and they expect me to move out of the way. :mad:

These people aren't cyclists - they are goons on bikes. A true cyclist, such as myself, would have studied the highway code as it is just as important for cyclists as it is drivers. What hacks me off is drivers who think we shouldn't be there. I bike about almost everywhere so I see a lot of drivers who live up to this, and some of them can do really stupid things.

 

[ChrisCooper]

Same with bus drivers really, a small minority who give the rest a bad name. The worst think I find is that as a considerate cyclist (rarely, but I do cycle sometimes), car driver and PCV licence holder (although not at the moment a bus driver, not modern ones anyway, but I have done it for a short time in the past), I seem to constantly suffer from inconsiderate and downright stupid cyclists, car drivers and bus drivers, and lorry drivers, when doing any of the above, and in quite a few cases I've ended up doing things that from the point of view of the other road users would be inconsiderate at least, e.g driving a double decker bus a few inches off the back wheels of some cyclists who were illigally riding side by side down and preventing me passing, despite knowing I was there and me giving them plenty of time to get in line, then when I did get a chance to pass giving them much less room than I normally would and cutting in close infront of them (I still made sure I was safe, but I was much less generous than I normally would be). Really, I do think some of the best road users out there are motorcyclists, again you get idiots but they seem a very small minority compared to other road users, at least if you discount the 16 year olds on 50cc bikes with L plates who only ride for a year until they get their car licence.

 

[Mojo]

At least if you discount the 16 year olds on 50cc bikes with L plates who only ride for a year until they get their car licence.

Hey! I have a 50cc bike which I've had since I was 16 with 2 yr no claims, what's wrong with them? It's certaintly been a lifeline in getting me to college (now finished so I'm selling it) for which the bus was just too slow & costly.

 

[yorkie]

.., e.g driving a double decker bus a few inches off the back wheels of some cyclists who were illigally riding side by side down and preventing me passing,....

I think you'll find that's not illegal!

But back to the original question - I know bus drivers typically carry on as if nothing has happened, but what are they supposed to do? Obviously, a train driver would have the incident delt with immediately, but are bus drivers supposed to report it via radio and carry on, or report it later, or what?

Of course I realise they are going to hope they don't get caught, but I really want to know what are they instructed to do.

 

[Guinness]

but I really want to know what are they instructed to do.

I've asked my neighbour who as a Bus Driver until recently and he said the companies do absolutely nothing. Bus and Rail is too completely different items.

 

[mbonwick]

Eww, buses! - they always pull in front of me.

The highway code states that you should let buses out!

 

[Lewisham2221]

Indeed, such a procedure does not exist, it's not particularly necessary on the roads.

If, however he was to be caught by a red-light camera, or the police, or anybody was to report him to the bus company, thigns may be different.

 

[Nick W]

Traffic lights don't apply to a single vehicle in the same way that train signals do.

Besides bus drivers have to look in their mirrors before going forwards and pulling out.... Some rules for bus drivers and some for train drivers...

As for cycling, well if we're meant to obey the highway code perhaps car drivers could obey the rule that says no overtaking at junctions. Cyclists have to turn right and change lines too despite what the cycle lanes think.

 

[Bighat]

This happens literally all the time. Buses think they are just above the law on the road - speeding, passing red lights, not stopping at zebra crossings...you name it, they do it! Mind you, if they got caught on a speed camera they would probably be sacked. But the problem is they never get caught!

ANY road vehicle, be it cycle, car, van, truck or bus, is subject to the various Road Traffic Acts.

I think that the generalisation is a little unfair. I drive regularly, both in London and Hull, and personally I don't think EYMS or Stagecoach in Hull drivers are any worse (or better) than, say, in London.

Iin any case, if a driver IS a 'chancer' and has an accident, he immediately is putting his livelyhood at risk, and certainly in Hull where alternative reasonably paid employment isn't readily available; it's a risk too far.

I notice a greater presence of marked police vehicles in Hull than in London, given the lower traffic densities and geograpic size difference. Problem is it is difficult to catch a cold, let alone a speeding bus in their LPG powered Korean-made go carts. The Volvo traffic cars unfortunately seem to only inhabit the A63/M62 corridor, unless they are coming in for 'refs'. Then THEY create the dust storm behind them!

 

[yorkie]

The highway code states that you should let buses out!

True, but it is not clear from his post if he is saying buses pull out in front of him, or pull in in front of him. If the latter, I can well believe it as it's happened to me, and it can be life threatening!

 

[Tom B]

Buses are completely different from trains. If drivers got the sack, nay, had to attend an interview after every SPAD they'd be screwed.

With a train driver, before they can be let loose they have to undertake months of training, then have to learn each route, sit exams, and be approved by an instructor.

With a bus driver, after they have passed their PSV they can be handed a timetable, a module and a map with a yellow line drawn on it and told to go out on service. Many companies do not train drivers on routes these days, relying on drivers area knowledge and often the passengers - I know one company's official policy is to use schoolchildren to direct drivers who are new to the route as it saves them a second drivers wages, and drivers rarely stay long. They weren't dissuaded by one driver ending up 100 miles north of where she should be, either...

Also remember trains have radios to contact the signalman, bus drivers have a handsfree kit on their phone!

 

[Mojo]

True, but it is not clear from his post if he is saying buses pull out in front of him, or pull in in front of him. If the latter, I can well believe it as it's happened to me, and it can be life threatening!

Also, the Highway Code is not law, it is not always practable to allow a bus to pull out in front of you, and it generally refers to stops and not side roads.

 

[Jim]

I think you'll find that's not illegal!

But back to the original question - I know bus drivers typically carry on as if nothing has happened, but what are they supposed to do? Obviously, a train driver would have the incident delt with immediately, but are bus drivers supposed to report it via radio and carry on, or report it later, or what?

Of course I realise they are going to hope they don't get caught, but I really want to know what are they instructed to do.

What do you expect them to do, phone the traficlight man:roll:

There is allways the case that the lights are changing infront of them, in which case it can sometimes be SAFRER to carry on. I don't think that many train signals change DOWN infront the driver, do they?

They are (IIRC) instructed to do nothing, there is nothing you can do if you are approching some sets of lights at the speed limit and they change to yellow and red, it is just far safrer to carry on.

 

[Tom B]

If you're just up against them yes, but if there's a fair way and you put your foot down, that's different!

Also, let's imagine traffic policeman is standing next to the lights, and sees a bus sail through the lights. Takes the number of the bus and submits this to the bus company. Now the police don't have any information on *who* is driving - they rely on the bus company to provide that information. I would hope that their attitude to the police is better than towards passengers, where all too frequently drivers "cannot be traced". I suppose ultimately the police could seize the duty boards to find the information themselves.

As for not issuing tickets, that of course never happens...! Don't dare to challenge the driver for one though... the response is generally :

- "Machine's broken"
- "I'm driving this f****** bus, sit down"
- "No you can't have a ticket, what good is it to you?"
- "What? You've paid, I don't have to give you a ticket"

All of which I've been told before by drivers when asking for one.

The other thing which is a problem with bus drivers is the fact they're in short supply. The pay is minimum wage or just above, maximum £8 an hour if you've been with the best paying company for 10 years or over. Most drivers are on £5.75 - £6.75, so there's not a massive influx of people wanting to do the job, hence bosses won't sack drivers unless they absolutely MUST.

 

[Mojo]

As for not issuing tickets, that of course never happens...! Don't dare to challenge the driver for one though... the response is generally :

- "Machine's broken"
- "I'm driving this f****** bus, sit down"
- "No you can't have a ticket, what good is it to you?"
- "What? You've paid, I don't have to give you a ticket"

All of which I've been told before by drivers when asking for one.

Although it doesn't help, and drivers in this case should be issuing tickets by company policy, the current state of legislation says that customers must be given a ticket if they pay cash to undertake a journey. There may be a caveat there such as "if requested," but I'm not sure.

This can lead to problems if the machine is genuinely broken, a company round here (which frequently has broken Wayfarer II machines) is to issue drivers with a pack of handwritten tickets which are written out for return journeys & if requested by the customer.

 

[Tom B]

Legally, you're entitled to a receipt for any transaction, aren't you? which comprises a ticket in this case.

All drivers should have Emergency Tickets, but I emphasise the should. That relies on the company producing them and the driver having them with him.

 

[mbonwick]

In contrast to waht has been said above, one of my mates (I was with him at the time) asked for a ticket (cost: 45p) and was told just to get on without paying!

Mojo: You don't mean Stagecoach do you? If you do, all I can say is STC must be better than the branch of Stagecoach you get with you.
In 3 years of twice a day, 5-days-a-week travelling, I have only seen 1 non-operational ticket machine on my bus and that was due to an electrical fault in the engine that also resulted in the electronic display not being changeable.

 

[Bighat]

Legally, you're entitled to a receipt for any transaction, aren't you? which comprises a ticket in this case.

All drivers should have Emergency Tickets, but I emphasise the should. That relies on the company producing them and the driver having them with him.

You obviously have never used a street parking meter!

 

[Mojo]

Mojo: You don't mean Stagecoach do you? If you do, all I can say is STC must be better than the branch of Stagecoach you get with you.
In 3 years of twice a day, 5-days-a-week travelling, I have only seen 1 non-operational ticket machine on my bus and that was due to an electrical fault in the engine that also resulted in the electronic display not being changeable.

It's an independent which was recently taken over by Flights Hallmark/Rotala (t/a Wessex Connect).

I don't take the bus as often as I used to nowadays, and I rarely use their services. They always have the lids open on the machines because the tickets tend to get stuck. On 1 occasion the driver got out from the side what I can only describe as a skewer you would normally see on a Corn-on-the-cob to help release the ticket!

Some of their buses have what I think are Wayfarer IIIs (never been on 'em) & when new had TGXs which printed tickets branded for "Centralconnect!"

 

[Jim]

It's an independent which was recently taken over by Flights Hallmark/Rotala (t/a Wessex Connect).

Another bunch of cowboys they are!

 

[NSEFAN]

And yet despite the appaling public transport that's around these days, the government can't understand why we are not very keen to give up our cars and use buses, to help prevent climate change...

It's all well and good the government making us feel guilty that our cars will destroy the environment, and then punishing us with very high fuel taxes and road pricing, etc, but then there is no reward for being green, such as a reliable and efficient bus service that is convenient and affordable to use on a regular basis.

A couple of years ago, my local bus was very cheap: 50p to go to town and back. It's now gone up to nearly £3.00, and I'm sure the drivers are more unpleasant than they used to be.

And if buses now think that traffic lights don't apply to them, I'm suprised there aren't more pile-ups: allowing SPADs at any place on a railway is completely insane, so why are roads any different?

Rant over

 

[Tom B]

Our bus fares are stupidly high, £4.00 for an adult to get to town and back.

However, you can make a much longer journey on another route in Sheffield and pay £2.00 to get to town and back over a longer distance. With the same operator, yet they charge you less for a longer journey, put out a brand new low floor bus, etc. Why? Because Stagecoach also run on that route and they charge stupidly low fares to get people to use them. They recoup the losses by charging everyone else high fares.

 

[158809]

Bus fares, stupidly high, i know the feeling.

Buses & SPADs, there is virtualy no way to trace a bus, if it goes through a red traffic light. There arn't sensors in the road to apply "automatic braking" or whatever, a bus is a bus, like most other road vehicles, and not a train!

Buses & Trains are different in many ways lol, and one of them is, buses dont "spad", but go through red traffic lights, which is effectivley breaking the law, unless you are traveling at such a speed it would be dangerous for you to stop, and could cause an accident?

Most of the time, the drivers carnt see the lights. They are oftern distracted by the wayfarers!

 

[Lewisham2221]

Having witnessed several sets of traffic lights in my local area that change from green through to yellow and red pretty quickly, it is actually sometimes safer to go through a red light than it is to stop.

At the end of the day though, you have to remember that it is much easier to drive a road vehicle based on immediate sighting than it is a train, i.e. you can generally stop/steer a road vehicle when you see the reason for stopping/steering, whereas when driving a train you would need to react much more in advance.