Buses and the coronavirus

[Bletchleyite]

Can you blame operators for cutting costs to the bone when they're not being supported by the Government for carrying on operations with almost no income?

I'd say just make it free and temporarily up BSOG to cover the full per-mile cost of operation.

 

[Geordie driver]

Can you blame operators for cutting costs to the bone when they're not being supported by the Government for carrying on operations with almost no income?

I wonder if that would be your view if it was you driving the bus? Yes I can blame them.

Many moons ago we had a route notorious for trouble, drivers robbed, stabbed, even shot with an air rifle, but there was no money for attack screens.

Driver attacked and robbed at wallsend metro station, ended up with brain damage and spent the rest of his life in care. That's the reality of bus operation in the UK.

Lay the drivers off and let the managers drive the bus, I'll wager there is money for PPE then.

 

[MDB1images]

Stagecoach Merseyside and South Lancashire tweeting that only accepting correct fare and anything over that paid will be donated to NHS.
Think it's Preston and Chorley depots.

I suppose only a Bus driver at those depots could say if that's a help or hinderance(how many people it effects and whether someone wanting change is then going to stand argueing thus increasing the time on the transaction and the risk to the driver).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Stagecoach Merseyside and South Lancashire tweeting that only accepting correct fare and anything over that paid will be donated to NHS.
Think it's Preston and Chorley depots.

I suppose only a Bus driver at those depots could say if that's a help or hinderance(how many people it effects and whether someone wanting change is then going to stand argueing thus increasing the time on the transaction and the risk to the driver).

It would to me make sense to get charity collection boxes and use those for exact fare collection so the driver avoids handling the cash. Show the cash to the driver in your hand then put it in the box.

 

[Dai Corner]

Can you blame operators for cutting costs to the bone when they're not being supported by the Government for carrying on operations with almost no income?

I'd say just make it free and temporarily up BSOG to cover the full per-mile cost of operation.

They are being supported by the Government.

Government bails out bus firms to keep routes open

A £167m fund will cover the losses of bus companies to keep essential services running for key workers.

www.bbc.co.uk

The government will cover the losses of bus companies in England over the next three months to ensure that services can still run.
The UK's bus industry says passenger numbers have "fallen off a cliff" since the government advised people against all non-essential travel.
That caused bus firms to cut services.
But a new £167m fund will ensure that bus companies can cover their costs on essential services so that key workers, such as NHS staff, can get to work.
Similar agreements are already in place in Scotland and Wales. The deal in Wales includes free bus travel for NHS workers.
Hundreds of millions of pounds of support measures from local and central government have been dedicated to the UK's bus industry to ensure that companies can survive through the coronavirus crisis and keep a reduced bus network moving.
The latest figures from the Confederation of Passenger Transport (CPT), which represents bus and coach companies in Britain, showed that passenger numbers were down by 75%, although the numbers from bus operators suggest numbers are even lower.
Empty buses
With people advised to stay at home, many buses around the UK are being driven around with no passengers on them at all.
CPT boss Graham Vidler said the funding would "plug the gap" between the costs of running essential routes and the income received by companies. He said that would allow "critical journeys to continue".
Government support is conditional on bus companies operating about half of their routes.
Operators have also pledged not to let buses carry more than 50% of their maximum capacity to ensure that social distancing is possible on board.

 

[Geordie driver]

They are being supported by the Government.

Government bails out bus firms to keep routes open

A £167m fund will cover the losses of bus companies to keep essential services running for key workers.

www.bbc.co.uk

I think you will find the bus companies consider that money is for use supporting their profits, not drivers lives!

 

[JonathanH]

I think you will find the bus companies consider that money is for use supporting their profits, not drivers lives!

If it were going towards profit that would be a poor use of taxpayer funding. It probably is no more than the difference between going bust and being able to continue to pay staff and will be managed as such.

 

[Andyh82]

The RMT need to learn to wind their neck in. Maybe there is a perspex shortage due to every shop trying to get it fitted?

The main difference is that the driver has to get in and out of their cab, a checkout operative doesn’t get behind their checkout via the same access as where the Perspex is being fitted, so on buses it either has to be something that can be pulled back like a ‘shower curtain’ or something much more substantial like a proper bandit screen

Regarding the RMT, the things that wind people up is not the sentiment, it’s the tone. They always sound like it’s ‘us v them’ ‘workers v nasty bosses’ and that they are only ever one paragraph away from staging a walk out.

 

[philthetube]

I'm not saying that, I'm just saying how would the operators who don't have London ops be able to do loans from London without paying a fortune/having unfamiliar vehicles?

Unfamiliar vehichle not an issue with buses, quick run round the block and have the controls and fuel cut out and workings of wheelchair ramp shown and away you go.

Bearing in mind that many London Buses are sitting doing nothing the operators might be happy for any revenue they could get lending the spare vehicles out.

 

[yorkie]

I think you will find the bus companies consider that money is for use supporting their profits, not drivers lives!

If you have your way many firms are simply not going to survive and many drivers will lose their jobs. You are being unrealistic. Most bus routes are far from financially viable operations right now, unless they receive additional support.

Some of your posts are extremely misleading.

 

[Geordie driver]

If you have your way many firms are simply not going to survive and many drivers will lose their jobs. You are being unrealistic. Most bus routes are far from financially viable operations right now, unless they receive additional support.

Some of your posts are extremely misleading.

I was wrong on what it is like in London and I admitted it was based on a conversation with a mate, I must have got the wrong end of the stick.

Show me anything else I have said that is" misleading".

" If I have my way" not sure what way that is, is it unreasonable to expect drivers to be afforded a decent level of protection?

There are some very naive posters on this forum who have no idea how the industry is run, I have been driving buses since 1985 pre privatisation.

I would rather lose my job than my life.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would rather lose my job than my life.

And that option, of course, is available to you at any time.

 

[Geordie driver]

Coronavirus: London bus driver 'frightened to die'

A London bus driver says she is scared of Covid-19 and wants buses to be made safer.

www.bbc.co.uk

A London bus driver has said she is "frightened to die" and begged the government to do more to help protect transport staff.

Lorraine, 62, who covers south London routes, said she had written letters to relatives in fear she "could not say goodbye" if she contracted the virus.

TfL said an enhanced anti-viral cleaning regime had been launched across the network and protective films applied to the screens of bus driver cabs.

The number of bus drivers dying seems disproportionately large given the low numbers working and they claims they are being protected.

 

[borage]

Sanders Coaches, who have been ahead of the game in stopping accepting cash payments, etc, briefly announced they would be offering free travel to NHS and care workers – a wonderful gesture – but have since said they can't, because of legislation:

Apologies to key workers, due to current legislation we have been informed that we are not allowed to offer free travel to key workers. Unfortunately this is beyond our control and we will have to continue to charge you for use of the bus services.

Which is fair enough, but any ideas what the legislation is, given that Stagecoach South East and Prentice of Haddington have been able to offer free travel to NHS workers?

 

[bussnapperwm]

Sanders Coaches, who have been ahead of the game in stopping accepting cash payments, etc, briefly announced they would be offering free travel to NHS and care workers – a wonderful gesture – but have since said they can't, because of legislation:

Well how come operators like Rotala, National Express and Stagecoach are able to offer free travel to NHS workers?

 

[Busaholic]

Well how come operators like Rotala, National Express and Stagecoach are able to offer free travel to NHS workers?

It could be that they are doing this either in ignorance of the law or everyone's turning a blind eye, whereas the smaller Sanders Coaches have been threatened with sanctions if they went ahead? I don't know that this is the case, by the way, but it's a possibility.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not clear what law they would be breaking - it strikes me that it's exactly the same as the NHS discounts that are being offered by all and sundry all over the (remaining) retail sector.

 

[yorkie]

Sanders Coaches, who have been ahead of the game in stopping accepting cash payments, etc, briefly announced they would be offering free travel to NHS and care workers – a wonderful gesture – but have since said they can't, because of legislation:

Which is fair enough, but any ideas what the legislation is, given that Stagecoach South East and Prentice of Haddington have been able to offer free travel to NHS workers?

I don't see why they can't offer free travel to NHS workers

But the tweet you quoted refers to "key workers"; now that is problematical because it depends on the definition of "key worker"; if using the Government's definition it's a rather long list: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...horities-on-maintaining-educational-provision !

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think the fact that they haven't said which law they feel they're in contravention of would suggest they have in fact not researched things properly, a bit like "health and safety" on a worksite or "security" at an airport.

They might well think it's competition law, but if it was then just about every business in the country would be contravening that at the moment, and there is simply no way anyone is going to enforce against a business giving NHS staff freebies or discounts at the moment, it would make whoever enforced it just look like a total idiot.

So I suspect either (a) they misunderstand, or (b) they have found it to be costing them too much and have found a convenient excuse to stop it.

 

[Busaholic]

I'm not clear what law they would be breaking - it strikes me that it's exactly the same as the NHS discounts that are being offered by all and sundry all over the (remaining) retail sector.

I'm not clear either, but I don't doubt that there'll be something the beloved Traffic Commissioners could come up with: either that, or somebody from the council if they run subsidised routes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not clear either, but I don't doubt that there'll be something the beloved Traffic Commissioners could come up with: either that, or somebody from the council if they run subsidised routes.

I can't see what it would have to do with the Traffic Commissioner. If they are subsidised routes with the Council bearing revenue risk, yes, they could have stopped them, but why wouldn't they just say "Because these are tendered routes we can't make that decision".

 

[duncanp]

A London bus driver has said she is "frightened to die" and begged the government to do more to help protect transport staff.

Lorraine, 62, who covers south London routes, said she had written letters to relatives in fear she "could not say goodbye" if she contracted the virus.

TfL said an enhanced anti-viral cleaning regime had been launched across the network and protective films applied to the screens of bus driver cabs.

I wonder exactly what this bus driver wants TfL to do in order to make the buses safer.

As the article says, there is a protective film across the screens of bus driver cabs, and an enhanced cleaning regime for all buses. London Buses do not take cash, so handling of cash by bus drivers is not an issue.

I also think it is out of order for her to say that people are getting on her bus for "no reason at all". How does she know this, and who is she to judge whether a particular bus journey is necessary.

 

[scotrail158713]

I don't see why they can't offer free travel to NHS workers

But the tweet you quoted refers to "key workers"; now that is problematical because it depends on the definition of "key worker"; if using the Government's definition it's a rather long list: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...horities-on-maintaining-educational-provision !

That was the only reasoning I could think of

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder exactly what this bus driver wants TfL to do in order to make the buses safer.

As the article says, there is a protective film across the screens of bus driver cabs, and an enhanced cleaning regime for all buses. London Buses do not take cash, so handling of cash by bus drivers is not an issue.

I also think it is out of order for her to say that people are getting on her bus for "no reason at all". How does she know this, and who is she to judge whether a particular bus journey is necessary.

Rear door boarding on all routes is the answer, with all seating forward of the stairs blocked off. Nobody can come anywhere near the driver then. It's astonishing London has taken so long to even try it - the Dutch started doing it months ago even before any lockdowns.

 

[bramling]

Rear door boarding on all routes is the answer, with all seating forward of the stairs blocked off. Nobody can come anywhere near the driver then. It's astonishing London has taken so long to even try it - the Dutch started doing it months ago even before any lockdowns.

In London we're only really at the point where social distancing is starting to be taken seriously. I agree it's nothing short of astonishing that we're only at this point weeks in.

I can fully understand why bus drivers are up in arms, they have been let down badly IMO. No thought seems to have been given at all to the issue, and it shouldn't have taken much imagination.

 

[Geordie driver]

I wonder exactly what this bus driver wants TfL to do in order to make the buses safer.

As the article says, there is a protective film across the screens of bus driver cabs, and an enhanced cleaning regime for all buses. London Buses do not take cash, so handling of cash by bus drivers is not an issue.

I also think it is out of order for her to say that people are getting on her bus for "no reason at all". How does she know this, and who is she to judge whether a particular bus journey is necessary.

Given that she works in the industry she is probably aware of how " enhanced" the cleaning is and how effective the screens are. Perhaps that's why she is scared?

A significant percentage of the public are just awful, it's reasonable to assume that if someone gets on your bus clearly under the influence of drink and/ or drugs their journey is not essential. I suppose you could argue it's necessary for them to get home.

Some of them will still be sitting on at the terminus and expecting a ride back, again, hardly necessary.

 

[asb]

Could Sanders be thinking that their ENCTS reimbursement is at risk if they are effectively charging nothing as the fare to the vast majority of passengers?

 

[philthetube]

I wonder if there is an insurance issue carrying non paying passengers, if so it should be easy to sort, though it may take a day or two.

 

[Dai Corner]

Welsh operators are carrying NHS staff free of charge as part of the financial support deal with the Welsh Government

 

[Busaholic]

It could be to do with falling foul of a multi-operator ticketing scheme, especially if it comes within the scope of Enhanced Ticketing Arrangements as set out in the Bus Services Act 2017 - I've flicked through the relevant (if they are!) parts of that act and, again, it's possible. I guess unless Sanders tell why they changed their minds we may never know.