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Cablecar service for Lancaster, Morecambe and Eden Project North

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randyrippley

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not my idea, something in the Lancaster Guardian this week
https://www.lancasterguardian.co.uk...orth-to-lancaster-university-and-m6-1-9897532

It looks like the Eden Project North is going to happen in Morecambe, is this the way to get there? It could become the prototype for similar transport schemes elsewhere. Cambridge maybe?

Proposals for an £82m aerial tramway project linking Lancaster, Morecambe and the university have been drawn up by the man behind the initial plans for Eden Project North.

Standing at more than 30m high, the Aerial Tramway System would link the proposed Eden Project North, the Bay Gateway, Lancaster Railway Station, the University of Cumbria’s Lancaster campus, Lancaster University and junction 33 of the M6 motorway.

Ian Hughes, who was the brains behind the initial idea of an Eden Project attraction in Morecambe, has published a document outlining how the “radical” system could transport people around the district, as well as preventing 2.3m car journeys per year and creating a further major visitor attraction in the area.

Mr Hughes’ company Oakstone Environmental Consulting has produced a concept/justification document for an “Aerial Tramway Mass Transit System”, which would include a total of 30 cabins, each with 35 seats, capable of carrying 2,000 people per hour at an average cost of £6 per ticket.Mr Hughes estimates the total build cost would be £82m, which includes 30km of cables, six stations, design and construction and land acquisition.

He estimates that income per year, even at 25 per cent capacity, would be £19m, and £10.8m per year minus operating costs, with a seven-year payback period for the initial investment.
He said: “Morecambe is a seaside resort on steroids right now, the long dark days of decline are waning with an attraction of international importance on the horizon, possibly open as soon as 2022. The forecast for Eden Project North is for a minimum of 500,000 extra visitors a year, this is considered conservative, it could be up to double this number. Furthermore, Eden will undoubtedly attract more inward investment, so we can expect more attractions, more to do and more reasons for people to come here.”

The report identifies certain issues with the project, such as wind speed, reliability, pylons and power cables on the route, and people’s privacy as the cable cars pass over their homes and gardens. Each of the issues is dealt with in the report.

Ian added: “What is offered here is a sustainable, environmentally-friendly solution that will allow for significant socio-economic growth in the Lancaster District into the future.
“An Aerial Tramway Mass Transit System will alleviate the inevitable increasing traffic that comes with the level of inward investment that is heading our way. It is entirely counterproductive to embrace this growth without preventing a situation that impedes the benefits through restricted movement around the area – domestic and commercial. 
When the prospect of an Eden Project North was first proferred there was a large degree of scepticism from some quarters that it could ever happen here, but it is. This concept is no different, it is BIG and it is BOLD, but it is entirely feasible in our view, and eminently desirable.”
The report goes on to say: “Award winning Morecambe Carnival attracts 55,000 people over an August weekend, Vintage by the Sea a further 40,000 in September plus there are other quality events every weekend throughout the summer attracting thousands of visitors.

Bay Gateway: With a park and ride car park capable of taking several hundred cars straight off the new main artery into the area from the M6, this will soak up many of the vehicles coming here without clogging up the roads in Morecambe. It would also facilitate people coming to visit Lancaster. The road is already set up for this with a junction, dedicated lane and traffic lights to filter cars over to the new station. This station is also very close to Lancaster and Morecambe College.
Lancaster Train Station: There is no easy way of having a station directly in the city centre, but there is already an established bus shuttle service and taxi rank at Castle Station. Having an aerial tramway link here, along with so many extra visitors coming, is another compelling reason to keep Lancaster as one of the West Coast Railway’s main stops. It is also close to the enormously important Castle potentially attracting many more tourists there and would be signposted prominently.
There are numerous residents who either work in Lancaster or Morecambe that commute and who could use the tramway, taking more vehicles off the road and costing them much less.

Then there is the shopping, of course, with Lancaster the midway station it can deliver people from either direction into the centre.

Last, but not least are the many students from both universities living in Lancaster who could commute quickly, easily and cheaply between campus and home.


University of Cumbria: Quite apart from the 3,000 students plus staff and the many people living in the Bowerham area who could all utilise the tramway, the suggested location for the station at the back of the campus is very close to Williamson and Lancaster Leisure Parks, both of which host many events, some very large.

Lancaster University: The University was integral to bringing Eden to Morecambe and will continue as a partner delivering academic courses linked with the Eden ethos. For students and academics to travel to what would in effect be a satellite ‘campus’ in half an hour will be highly beneficial.

There are 12,000 students and almost 3,000 staff at LU many of whom live in Lancaster and Morecambe.

Remodelled J33: The planned remodelling of M6 J33 offers an ideal opportunity for an ATS station with a park and ride facility, along with the option for bus and cycle travel. Cycle hire could be facilitated at each of the cableway stations and the cabins proposed will take cycles and their riders.

The next (new) section looks at stations for Lancaster University and J33 in more detail and more particularly the entire South Lancaster Transport requirements.

In the scheme of things, based on the estimations of cost herein, (subject to professional scrutiny) this is not an expensive project and one with very high potential returns in a short time-frame. We believe that this would be an attractive proposition for suitable investors or a public/private partnership.

An aerial tramway offers affordable and efficient travel for residents and visitors alike, it delivers people to work and play in the locations where things are happening, where they want or need to be. These systems are amongst the safest modes of any transport.

A case for practicality is largely made here, but there is also a hugely important case to be made in terms of our landscape and the glorious vistas - near and far - that would be appreciated from such an elevated and extended viewpoint, changing all the time as you move along. The heritage of the City with the Castle and Priory and the wonderful Georgian architecture, the Lune extending into the distance in both directions, the Cumbrian mountains across the extraordinarily beautiful Bay, the Howgills and Ingleborough, the Forest of Bowland and the spectacular form of Eden Project North as it hoves into view, reminiscent of a cluster of mussel shells. Daytime and nightime the experience would be sublime. Who would not wish to take the ‘Sunset Special’ round trip now and then, perhaps with a complimentary glass of champagne to toast the view?

Please take the time to ponder the possibilities, dare to think ‘what if!’ and let ‘Lancaster District Ltd’ blaze a trail for others to follow.

Another of the first things people say when an Aerial Tramway System is mentioned is “what about the wind?” This is largely due to most peoples’ experiences of basic cableways when they have been skiing. The fact is that “maximum acceptable wind speeds vary from 70 to 110 km/h (43.5 to 68.4 mph) depending on the technology used.

Bicable and tricable systems [proposed] are more resistant to wind speed” (Clément-Werny et al, 2011)*

According to the Beaufort Scale 37 Knots = 68.4 km/h (42.5 mph) = ‘GALE’ and 52 Knots = 96.6 km/h (60 mph) = ‘STORM’.

On these figures compared to the past decade of wind data (below) (WWO, 2019) at no time since 2009 would the system have been stopped from running due to maximum wind speeds or gusts.

This compares very favourably to ferries that often cease sailing in storms and some bridges that are closed to traffic. There is no need to worry about the wrong kind of snow or leaves on the line, and flooding would not be an issue either.

In comparison with other modes of transport, therefore, an Aerial Tramway, such as that which we are proposing, ranks very highly for reliability.

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yorksrob

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Now that would have been an interesting way to get into the City during my University days !
 

Clip

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What an utterly bonkers idea and his costings really dont match up for 30km for 86million?

Think the london one cost 60 million and thats way shorter...
 

HSTEd

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Now let's see if it could be delivered on anything like on time and on budget..... wash away the memory of the Emirates debacle.
 

Ianno87

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A cablecar in Cambridge would be hugely visually impactful...and good luck finding space to plonk huge pillars!
 

HSTEd

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A cablecar in Cambridge would be hugely visually impactful...and good luck finding space to plonk huge pillars!
Tubular steel pillars are actually surprisingly small now with our modern very high strength steels (developed for things like suspension bridges and the like).
They can probably fit in a road-island without too much difficulty.
 

edwin_m

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My first reaction is that this is relatively sensible compared to many transport proposals.

The term "aerial tram" is however a bit misleading. If defined according to the link below it wouldn't be suitable for a long journey with multiple stations.
http://gondolaproject.com/aerialtram/
The aerial tram is one of the original aerial cable transit types. Generally aerial trams are two-vehicle, two-station systems with non-detachable grips.

While they are limited in their capabilities, what they can do, they do well. Essentially aerial trams can reach high speeds and are therefore really good at moving people between two points over shorter distances. (At longer distances the two cabins become less efficient.)

Because vehicles are attached to their haul rope (propulsion cable) with non-detachable grips, as the two opposing cabins enter the stations, the entire system is brought to a full stand still. The two cabins shuffle back and forth between the two stations, hence why aerial trams are also known as reversible tramways. This also make turning and mid-stations near impossible.

What they probably need is one of the following: http://gondolaproject.com/learn-the-basics-what-is-cable-propelled-transit/
 

HSTEd

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My first reaction is that this is relatively sensible compared to many transport proposals.

The term "aerial tram" is however a bit misleading. If defined according to the link below it wouldn't be suitable for a long journey with multiple stations.
http://gondolaproject.com/aerialtram/


What they probably need is one of the following: http://gondolaproject.com/learn-the-basics-what-is-cable-propelled-transit/

Based on the vehicle size, its probably a 3S cableway.
Certainly what I would select in this situation.
 

randyrippley

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Its a tricable system, with the gondolas detachable from the cable through a clutch/grip mechanism.
What I don't understand is how you could prevent a pile-up in the event of the need for an extended dwell time on one gondola
 

dm1

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Its a tricable system, with the gondolas detachable from the cable through a clutch/grip mechanism.
What I don't understand is how you could prevent a pile-up in the event of the need for an extended dwell time on one gondola
There's no possibility of a pile-up everything is centrally controlled.
The usual way of handling such situations is simply to stop all the other gondolas if one of them stops.

It's a bit disconcerting if you're not used to it, but it's completely normal and everything usually starts moving a few minutes later.

A system of this length will usually be built with more than one set of cables, so at one or more stations there will probably be a "reversing loop" where a gondola can be stored. It should also be possible to operate the system as two or more separate "routes" with a change of cabin required in the middle, in particular if one section cannot be operated for some reason.

Gondola systems are very standard nowadays - especially in ski resorts, but often in urban applications too. If a reputable supplier is chosen there is no reason it couldn't be done at more than reasonable cost.
 

randyrippley

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Absolute crackpot idea. Funding a street tramway would have far more benefits.

And who other than tourists is going to use it at £6 single?

Tourists are the target market: they're assuming a minimum of half a million a year extra, heading for the Eden development. This keeps the traffic out of Lancaster and Morecambe, with park and rides at both M6 J33 and J34. Ticketing could be included as part of the Eden entrance fee. Would be a heck of a tourist ride in its own right with some spectacular views looking over Morecambe Bay.

As for a street tramway, that offers nothing in terms of reducing congestion in the two towns: the trams would just replace the buses, be less flexible and much slower
 
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HSTEd

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Absolute crackpot idea. Funding a street tramway would have far more benefits.
Good luck getting 11.5km of tramway through partially urbanised terrain for anything like £82m
It would be two or three times that at the outside, and where would tickets be then?
And who other than tourists is going to use it at £6 single?
Also worth noting that is an average price.
Tourists running the whole length of the alignment will pay much more than someone using it for a single stop - and once the thing is operating for years and the capacity has to go up....... we will be in a different place.
That is nothing like the capacity of a 3S ropeway, more vehicles could be added as required.
(18 comparably sized cabins on a lift less than a kilometre in length, compare 30 on 11-12km)
 

randyrippley

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just reading the link above about the 3s system - http://gondolaproject.com/3s/
they're suggesting possible passenger flows of the order of 6-8,000 per hour per direction...........thats a heck of a lot of buses or trams.
At present buses are timetabled at around 55 minutes from Lancaster Uni to Morecambe bus station............this plan would reduce that significantly
 

edwin_m

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Of course if they did this they could close the railway and use the reduction in subsidy to reduce the cablecar fares to match what the train fares were and ensure it is still part of the national network in terms of ticketing.

Tin hat on, ducks for cover...
 

158756

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Er.. sorry if I'm missing the spirit of a speculative ideas thread, but is this a serious proposal? It wouldn't be done for £82m, and why is it necessary? Morecambe-Lancaster-University is just a normal bus route, not particularly busy compared to some in the major cities. In the event the Eden Project thing is built (I wouldn't put money on it) it won't be the biggest visitor attraction ever, if it needed extra public transport run a park and ride bus from the M6. Where would you build the cablecar - how many people would object to having it over their house or garden?
 

Bevan Price

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I think there will be lots of NIMBYs objecting to a 30m high cableway dominating the landscape for several miles, quite apart from overlooking their houses & gardens.
(OT - Whilst i think that an "Eden Project North" is a good idea, the location is wrong. With rising sea levels (due to global warming), anything built near the seafront will become increasingly prone to flooding.)
 

yorksrob

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Of course if they did this they could close the railway and use the reduction in subsidy to reduce the cablecar fares to match what the train fares were and ensure it is still part of the national network in terms of ticketing.

Tin hat on, ducks for cover...

Actually, if the Eden Project is in the location I think it is (former Blobby world/frontier land ?), the railway will be ideally suited to bring people directly from Yorkshire, and perhaps elsewhere.

This would be a step up from the situation in Cornwall, where the project is a taxi ride away from St Austell station.
 

HSTEd

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Er.. sorry if I'm missing the spirit of a speculative ideas thread, but is this a serious proposal? It wouldn't be done for £82m, and why is it necessary?
£82m is in the same range as 3S cableway type schemes in other locations.
Especially since this scheme is large enough to amortise the cost of things like stations down considerably.
Where would you build the cablecar - how many people would object to having it over their house or garden?

Well air rights are still legally property subject to compulsory purchase in the public interest......

The alignment seems to be at least partially over an ex railway alignment that is now a bike path.
 
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Bald Rick

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Interesting. A very similar system is about to be constructed between Morzine and Prodains as an extension of the Prodains Express Téléphérique along the valley (ie not across mountains).

That’s €58m for 4km.
 

randyrippley

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Actually, if the Eden Project is in the location I think it is (former Blobby world/frontier land ?), the railway will be ideally suited to bring people directly from Yorkshire, and perhaps elsewhere.

This would be a step up from the situation in Cornwall, where the project is a taxi ride away from St Austell station.

The Eden Project is planned for the land next to the Midland Hotel - where Bubbles and the Superdome used to be (and before that the Super Swimming Stadium). Basically the open land to the northeast of the Stone Jetty.
Not Frontierland, not Happy Mount Park (which is where Blobbyworld was for all of three months)
 

randyrippley

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Regarding the route
Lancaster - Morecambe follows the old electric railway route, now a footpath.
Much of the land alongside the motorway north of J33 is owned by Lancaster Uni, and they are one of the partners in the Eden plans. The route as shown also crosses the campus of Cumbria Uni, the big question is the route from there to Lancaster Station - though could it be routed over the WCML from Lancaster Infirmary northwards? Theres just parkland between the Uni and the hospital
 

yorksrob

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The Eden Project is planned for the land next to the Midland Hotel - where Bubbles and the Superdome used to be (and before that the Super Swimming Stadium). Basically the open land to the northeast of the Stone Jetty.
Not Frontierland, not Happy Mount Park (which is where Blobbyworld was for all of three months)

Ah cheers, so it's even handier for the station !
 
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