cables & dials test

[Mattm123]

I he to agree with carlejo on this. As far as I understood the explanation of the priority being always on the left hand side of each dial.

 

[TDK]

This is just too much information, all these hints, tips and practice material are extremely worrying to me as a qualified driver as if people are "cheating" and in my eyes is is cheating, it's like having the answers to a GCSE exam before you take it, we are going to get trainees not cut out for the job and the worring thing is that one day one of these new drivers may cock up and someone like myself is coming in the opposite direction.

Roll on when they bring out the new tests.

 

[emrysgwen]

Four dials, four different shades, priority is decided by the different shades. This priority is fine until two dials are of the same priority shade then you refer to the numbers on the outside of the dials the lower number always takes priority over the higher number. That's how i understood it mate just waiting for the result's now.

Thats exactly what I did and I passed it so you are correct. Good luck

 

[Mattm123]

This is just too much information, all these hints, tips and practice material are extremely worrying to me as a qualified driver as if people are "cheating" and in my eyes is is cheating, it's like having the answers to a GCSE exam before you take it, we are going to get trainees not cut out for the job and the worring thing is that one day one of these new drivers may cock up and someone like myself is coming in the opposite direction.

Roll on when they bring out the new tests.

I think that you are being a little bit harsh mate. Everyone goes through the same training as you will be having. So doesnt really matter about these tests. Its a way of weeding folk out.

 

[Beveridges]

I wish I had a forum like this back in 2008 that gave out all the answers, it would have took the pressure off the tests.

I remember the horrors of taking the psycho tests well. I remember being unable to sleep for 3 nights in a row leading up to the assessments for my MDD role due to fear of potentially failing.
I disliked my job at the time and heard about just how great the MDD job is, and I was on my second and final attempt with the tests, so as you can imagine, failure was not an option.

 

[Flyboy]

Mattm123 makes a good point that these tests are probably designed simply as a means of slimming down the numbers and ensuring that those who proceed to training can cope with the course. We've witnessed on here some candidates passing with quite low scores, so one would have to assume that it's only those who have no aptitude for the job at all that are being filtered out. Candidates like that could practice hour after hour and still see no benefit as they just don't have it. That's not a general poor reflection on them of course, their skills may simply lie in other areas; I could practice drawing for ever and a day but I still wouldn't be able to come up with anything remotely acceptable!

I agree that information I've seen on here has certainly been useful in knowing what to expect, but I haven't really seen anything that has gone any deeper than the comprehensive "Practice Test Materials" booklet that FTPE themselves gave to us beforehand.

I also think it's worth noting that the information given in this particular thread is perhaps more confusing than it is helpful due to the wide variety of tests candidates are taking with different TOCs.

 

[FlamTap]

This is just too much information, all these hints, tips and practice material are extremely worrying to me as a qualified driver as if people are "cheating" and in my eyes is is cheating, it's like having the answers to a GCSE exam before you take it, we are going to get trainees not cut out for the job and the worring thing is that one day one of these new drivers may cock up and someone like myself is coming in the opposite direction.

Roll on when they bring out the new tests.

I hear what you're saying.

However, none of us can alter the fact that we live in a time where mass communication is very, very easy. Internet forums, personal websites and the ease and freedom to which information can be shared is here to stay - and there's very little any of us can do about that.

When the new tests are introduced I predict it will be a very short time before the structure of the these tests start to "leak" out. Armed with this information it won't be too long before practice software becomes available either.

Perhaps the only real solution would be to have drivers work they way up from the bottom - like yesteryear. But I doubt that would be conducive to the business model of today's railway.

 

[daddy_badger]

I hear what you're saying.


Perhaps the only real solution would be to have drivers work they way up from the bottom - like yesteryear. But I doubt that would be conducive to the business model of today's railway.

That may not happen, there are KPI's and targets to meet. If a TOC has x
amount of drivers retire/leave they would need to backfill those jobs that the next person has come from, this clearly does not make sense. However saying that and, this is going marginally off tangent, you have much better chance starting somewhere on a platform position to progress on to guard/driver.

 

[Flyboy]

Perhaps the only real solution would be to have drivers work they way up from the bottom - like yesteryear.

That's a valid argument and of course in some cases was the ONLY way to do it in times gone by, but it's perhaps not the way to do it nowadays, particularly in regard to train driving. There are many many companies where the principle of starting at the bottom and working one's way up is the best way to do it, such as progressing from shelf-stacker to store manager in a supermarket, but the driving force in that case is experience and knowledge, whereas with train driving, or perhaps commercial flying, engineering, or indeed sales to a certain extent, it's all about having the right skills.

Retail assistant to retail supervisor to retail manager is a natural progression, whereas station staff to train conductor to driver, or check-in surpervisor to cabin attendant to pilot is not, because each job requires a defined and very different set of skills which cannot always be learned.

 

[Beveridges]

I'm always going to say working up from the bottom is the safest way because I did it myself.

I didn't exactly start at the bottom, as I was never a Cleaner. But its the same idea. I went Platform Despatch to Maintenance Depot Driver. Some assume that working your way up takes time, having to go through several stepping stones, gradually working up. This is nonsense, you can get in the TOC in any role and you can jump up 10 steps in one go if you go for the job you want direct and happen to get it. I know a Cleaner who moved up to Maintenance Depot Driver in one move! Yes, from the bottom to the top in one application.

The fact that Northern said in their latest magazine that they "promoted" something like 230 staff in the last financial year proves that working your way up is the "easiest" way to get a Drivers position in most companies.

The fact that National Express East Coast only ever take on trainee drivers internally is further proof of this.

 

[Mattm123]

I'm always going to say working up from the bottom is the safest way because I did it myself.

I didn't exactly start at the bottom, as I was never a Cleaner. But its the same idea. I went Platform Despatch to Maintenance Depot Driver. Some assume that working your way up takes time, having to go through several stepping stones, gradually working up. This is nonsense, you can get in the TOC in any role and you can jump up 10 steps in one go if you go for the job you want direct and happen to get it. I know a Cleaner who moved up to Maintenance Depot Driver in one move! Yes, from the bottom to the top in one application.

The fact that Northern said in their latest magazine that they "promoted" something like 230 staff in the last financial year proves that working your way up is the "easiest" way to get a Drivers position in most companies.

The fact that National Express East Coast only ever take on trainee drivers internally is further proof of this.

I agree with you totally mate! Just ashame the TOC I work for does not train drivers!

 

[SilentChill]

This is just too much information, all these hints, tips and practice material are extremely worrying to me as a qualified driver as if people are "cheating" and in my eyes is is cheating, it's like having the answers to a GCSE exam before you take it, we are going to get trainees not cut out for the job and the worring thing is that one day one of these new drivers may cock up and someone like myself is coming in the opposite direction.

Roll on when they bring out the new tests.

Exactly what I said in another post, couldnt agree more with ya.

At least the structured interview questions and the managers interview should sort the men from the boys, its the only legit part of the tests. Unless you lie of course

 

[daddy_badger]

You would have to be a very good liar to get through that. Usual Suspects springs to mind.

 

[mattybristol]

thanks for the great response guys, it seems that the dials are coloured in a different order depending on which company you do your test with.

 

[Beveridges]

Usual Suspects springs to mind

Hope your not thinking of me!

 

[spencer2]

thanks for the great response guys, it seems that the dials are coloured in a different order depending on which company you do your test with.

it depends on which order they are for the test you are taking......the test is how you work them out as to wether you pass or fail. i think i will catch the bus

 

[TDK]

I think that you are being a little bit harsh mate. Everyone goes through the same training as you will be having. So doesnt really matter about these tests. Its a way of weeding folk out.

I don't need any training and I am not being harsh. I think the whole thing now is a farce

 

[Mattm123]

I don't need any training and I am not being harsh. I think the whole thing now is a farce

Assuming your a driver. You will have had training. No different from anyone else's training

 

[oi oi]

Anyone know where I can get the answers to mt4.1
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Assuming your a driver. You will have had training. No different from anyone else's training

TDK is in recruitment

 

[TDK]

Anyone know where I can get the answers to mt4.1
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


TDK is in recruitment

To put the record straight, yes I had training but re- read your post, it quoted "When you have your training" I used to be a DTM and decided to go back driving so I am currently a driver. You can jest on the matter but managers are always investigating trends and if someone comes on here for answers to questions and lets say 10 out of 50 candidates give the same answers they are doomed! If you want to know my history you can PM me!

 

[A-driver]

I have to agree with TDKs earlier post here-I know that train driving is a very desirable job and especially so on this forum but there seem to be too many threads at the moment for advice in passing the altitude tests.

The thing is that you shouldn't need any advice to pass. You get sent some practice marterial to give you a rough idea at what to expect and a fair chance at them. The tests themselves aren't designed for you to practice, you are meant to turn up, sit them and with out going to a particularly special effort and pass them naturally if suitable for the job. Same with the structured interview-you go in with your experiences and talk about them-let the assessor decide if they are appropriate.

There seems to be a trend on here of trying to almost cheat the tests-practicing the dots test etc-they aren't tests you should be practicing. As I say, turn up having done the official prep suggested by the toc and do your best. If you heat your way through the tests you may get onto the course but probably won't ever pass out as a driver-then you are in a worse position as no other toc is likely to take you on and you will have give up your current job by then.

I know this isn't helpful to most wannabe drivers on here but from personal experience and that of many other drivers I know, we didn't spend ages practicing them, worrying over structured interview examples, doing online practice tests etc, I personally read the material sent to me, did the included exercises, had a good nights sleep the night before and then gave the tests my best shot. My attitude was that if I failed then I hadn't lost anything and the job probably wasn't for me anyway-hence the point of doing the tests.

Sorry to rant but many people on here need to stop getting so worked up about these tests.

 

[A-driver]

The end of the first paragraph should say aptitude test, not altitude test! Predictive text combined with my phone not letting me edit the post!

 

[Beveridges]

There seems to be a trend on here of trying to almost cheat the tests-practicing the dots test etc-they aren't tests you should be practicing. As I say, turn up having done the official prep suggested by the toc and do your best. If you heat your way through the tests you may get onto the course but probably won't ever pass out as a driver-then you are in a worse position as no other toc is likely to take you on and you will have give up your current job by then.

I spent rediculous time practicing the tests. I must have spent hundreds of hours:

Group Boredom tests - GBT test tool practicing until my scores were overkill
Reactions - Used my programming skills to build a replica of the real thing. Also practiced Bop-It Extreme, Tetris, Brain Training software and videogames on Sega Megadrive and PC.
Mechanical - I bought every book going, most notable the one from Barrons, but four others as well. I downloaded an ebook from the USA at a premium that was full of mech sample questions. I cruised the web looking for every mechanical question I could find. I also even bought books on Physics.
I also asked other candidates who recently sat the tests what questions they got on the mech test.
Trainability - Glop - Again, I asked recent candidates what was in the passage. I also researched a bit about Sandite trains. I already know most of what was in the passage before I even went in to sit the test.
Structured Interview - I spent absolutely ages on this, perfecting my answers, trying to bend my very limited experience (at the time) to get around all the criteria.If you look hard enough on any web forum, you'll find it all. I already knew what the questions were before I went in to sit the interview. I also already knew the criteria. I knew exactly what I was going to say before I even sat the Interview.



The thing is, its alright for people like A-Driver to advise people not to put in a "special effort" to get through these tests. The fact is, I would probably not be in the position I am in now if I did not put in a "special effort" and seek "special advice". I would not be in my chosen job, which is what I regard the best job out there in my area. Those few hundred hours I spent practicing have more than paid off. I don't give a damn about whether these tests really do test if your suitable or not. They were just a barrier to my chosen job that had to be overcome. The fact is I am more than capable of performing my role as a Maintenance Depot Driver. The tests would probably have seen me off if I didnt practice so much! The SI would certainly have seen me off its so OTT! It took me two attempts to get through the damn thing even with all the prior preperation.

I would advise anyone to put in a "special effort". It is not cheating. Your not breaking any rules. Where is there a rule laid down to state that you can't seek advice of recent candidates, or that you can't use practice software that replicates the real thing? If you truely aren't capable of doing the job it's the training that will see you off! Not some tests that are not really the same skill as the real thing.

The fact is more and more people are on these forums today. More people are putting in a "special effort" and no doubt the pass marks will have to go up. Today, it is harder than ever to just turn up and pass without having put in a special effort.

 

[A-driver]

Sorry but there is no point in taking the trainability test if you are going to find out what is in the text before turning up! It's cheating-end of. No different from turning up for a GCSE exam having seen the actual question paper beforehand and so having learnt all the answers off by heart.

No doubt many do cheat on the tests like you did but that doesn't make it right. That trainability test isn't particularly difficult and if you can't learn a few points from a paragraph of text in 10mins then you probably aren't suitable to learn everything you get taught in train driver training.

I'm not going to get drawn into an argument but I stand by what I said and think its way over the top to go as far as cheating! Not trying to get personal at all but it may be part of the reason you have got nowhere with all the train driver interviews you have taken.

 

[Beveridges]

Not trying to get personal at all but it may be part of the reason you have got nowhere with all the train driver interviews you have taken.

Got nowhere? I got into a drivers role in the end, not the typical drivers role, but its exactly where I want to me. Yes I have failed some Interviews in the past but I'm glad I failed them as it mean't I wouldn't have ended up where I am now in this great position. Very few get to where they want to be without failing a few Interviews first ? Especially these days. The point is, I was successful in the end, after a long and difficult path, which I will explain later.

Whether my practicing of the psycho tests was OTT or not, it was a barrier that had to be broken to get to where I am now. One of many, many barriers. I really earned my position as an MDD. Got through the management interview by half a point after 2 people ahead of me dropped out miraculously. Battled my way through a bottom link tanking/ Fuellers role for over a year. Put up with very poor training for my maintenance depot driver role -trained by cowboys and a manager who couldn't care how bad the cowboy minder drivers really were- and really had to work very very hard to get through the final competency assessment learning everything myself basically with little experience due to poor minders. Took me two attempts. After the failed first attempt they threatend to sack me until I begged them for a 2nd attempt. After a stressful 2nd attempt I passed. Then further fuelling/tanking dominated graft for months on end, breathing in deadly fumes and getting splashed by red diesel, through the worst winter night weather I have ever seen, using knackered equipment that was run down beyond belief. Finally, after getting a position within the proper MDD link, I "arrived".
Without the OTT practice, there is a chance I might not be here now in this role. That is a chance I did not want to take. I think I probably would have passed that trainability test without the prior research. It was not as difficult as I thought it might have been. I have done computer programming in my past - a job much more taxing on the memory than a sandite test. The fact is, the prior research minimised the risk of failing - a test that was of unknown "difficulty" to me at the time. I did not want to take any risk of it stopping me getting in my way to get to where I am now.
Whether the tests *should* have stopped me progressing through this difficult path is now completely irrelevant. I am suitable to the job and with no incidents on record. I enjoy the job thats the main thing. The tests are *supposed* to get rid of people who wouldn't like the job (due to being unsuited for it) and therefore not do it right.

Sorry but there is no point in taking the trainability test if you are going to find out what is in the text before turning up

Your allowed to fail the tests up to a maximum of two times. So if you fail the trainability test on your first attempt, you'll have seen it anyway and know what some of the info in the passage says for your second attempt!

 

[TOCDriver]

I just can't see the issues here. No amount of practice can prepare you for these assessment tests - you either have it in you or you haven't If your concentration is naturally poor, you will not pass the tests. Similarly, if you haven't the common sense to understand how things work, you will not pass the tests. (You do not need scientific training to pass trainability / mechanical comprehension testing) If you flap under pressure, you will not pass the tests. My advice is by all means research what will be asked of you but there is no way on gods earth you will pass if you haven't got the natural ability or temperament. If you think well under pressure, have good reactions / hand - eye coordination and have bags of common sense, you will pass the tests. They're not difficult if you have these prerequisites