CAF Civity for TfW: experiences of the new trains

[Envoy]

I have been on one and the ride quality if sitting on the bogie is poor, but better mid-coach.

It was a hot day and the mid coach door let out all the cold air at stops. Presumably they will let in all the cold air in winter?

Engine noise was well isolated.

Seats not always aligned with windows and a pity that the pillars are so thick. Someone said that the 196’s are better in this respect. Seats are better than the Flirts but not that good.

The Flirts have wonderful suspension and of course, level boarding. (The Flirt seats are too hard, the base not long enough and the back too upright. They are also set too close to the door).

The information screen in the 197 is excellent and gives info about connections at major junction stations and if the connecting trains are running to time.

The 197’s are far better than the 150’s and of course have air conditioning - which usually is not working in the 158’s.

 

[Jez]

i have been on one and the ride quality if sitting on the bogie is poor but better mid coach. It was a hot day and the mid coach door let out all the cold air at stops. Presumably they will let in all the cold air in winter? Engine noise was well isolated. Seats not always aligned with windows and a pity that the pillars are so thick. Someone said that the 196’s are better in this respect. Seats are better than the Flirts but not that good. The Flirts have wonderful suspension and of course, level boarding. (The Flirt seats are too hard, the base not long enough and the back too upright. They are also set too close to the door). The information screen in the 197 is excellent and gives info about connections at major junction stations and if the connecting trains are running to time.

The 197’s are far better than the 150’s and of course have air conditioning - which usually is not working in the 158’s.

I havent been on a 196 yet but ive heard the 197s seating is the most comfortable of the 3 types of units (195/196/197) plus the 197s have arm rests which the 196's don't have. I have been on a 195 a few times and I much preferred the seats on the 197. They seemed far too hard on the 195, was pleasantly surprised how good they were on the 197.

One thing i am surprised about it there isn't as many table seats on a 197. I cant remember off the top of my head but im sure in the 2 car set there was 10 sets of table seats. Which compared to a 175 isnt many.

 

[craigybagel]

i have been on one and the ride quality if sitting on the bogie is poor but better mid coach. It was a hot day and the mid coach door let out all the cold air at stops. Presumably they will let in all the cold air in winter? Engine noise was well isolated. Seats not always aligned with windows and a pity that the pillars are so thick. Someone said that the 196’s are better in this respect. Seats are better than the Flirts but not that good. The Flirts have wonderful suspension and of course, level boarding. (The Flirt seats are too hard, the base not long enough and the back too upright. They are also set too close to the door). The information screen in the 197 is excellent and gives info about connections at major junction stations and if the connecting trains are running to time.

The 197’s are far better than the 150’s and of course have air conditioning - which usually is not working in the 158’s.

I havent been on a 196 yet but ive heard the 197s seating is the most comfortable of the 3 types of units (195/196/197) plus the 197s have arm rests which the 196's don't have. I have been on a 195 a few times and I much preferred the seats on the 197. They seemed far too hard on the 195, was pleasantly surprised how good they were on the 197.

One thing i am surprised about it there isn't as many table seats on a 197. I cant remember off the top of my head but im sure in the 2 car set there was 10 sets of table seats. Which compared to a 175 isnt many.

But how can that be?! We were told before the 197s were introduced (and before any never of the public had sat in the seats) that they were terrible, that people would avoid TfW because of them, and that they'd single handedly bring about the collapse of the entire UK rail industry!

You don't mean to say that all the seat wibble was a waste of time when opinions on comfort are all entirely subjective?

 

[Jez]

But how can that be?! We were told before the 197s were introduced (and before any never of the public had sat in the seats) that they were terrible, that people would avoid TfW because of them, and that they'd single handedly bring about the collapse of the entire UK rail industry!

You don't mean to say that all the seat wibble was a waste of time when opinions on comfort are all entirely subjective?

To be fair I always had an open mind about the 197's before they came into service and I was able to ride one. When i rode a 195 I thought they were okay overall but the seats weren't that great so i was pleasantly surprised with the seats on the 197. I am also very happy with the 197s overall.

 

[anamyd]

My first ride on a 197 (197018 on the front of 197016 on 1V95 from Shrewsbury to Hereford on the 8/9/23) was fine, no issues.

Unfortunately, my Mum and her partner had a disappointing first 197 experience today (2/10/23).

They had 197013 on 1W92 from Shrewsbury to Chester, but it was displaying a blank destination rather than Holyhead.

They (and other passengers) assumed it was the Holyhead train anyway and got on it.

However, when the doors closed and beeped and the engines revved, the train's interior screens and recorded announcement said it was going to Cardiff, and that the next stop was Church Stretton.

This freaked them out (as well as other passengers) until they realised that they were going the right way and the guard announced that it was the right (Holyhead) train after all.

Another worrying thing was that the toilet was out of order, on a new train? And it's the only one.

These problems don't give a good first impression of a new train, even though they could tell that it was otherwise very nice.

I also learned from @Jez on here that he was on a 4-car 197 service and wasn't able to walk between the two units internally, due to the cab-end gangway connection door on one of them not unlocking/opening (presumably due to a fault).

I contacted TfW Rail on behalf of my Mum and her partner.

I told TfW Rail that while I can appreciate that with new equipment it's not uncommon for there to be teething problems, I hope an effort is made to ensure that the 197s are reliably fully-functioning, as in most of the time go beyond merely transporting passengers, but also provide the passengers with correct automated information, toilet facilities and, in multiple unit working, the ability to walk between units internally.

 

[Jez]

My first ride on a 197 (197018 on the front of 197016 on 1V95 from Shrewsbury to Hereford on the 8/9/23) was fine, no issues.

Unfortunately, my Mum and her partner had a disappointing first 197 experience today (2/10/23).

They had 197013 on 1W92 from Shrewsbury to Chester, but it was displaying a blank destination rather than Holyhead.

They (and other passengers) assumed it was the Holyhead train anyway and got on it.

However, when the doors closed and beeped and the engines revved, the train's interior screens and recorded announcement said it was going to Cardiff, and that the next stop was Church Stretton.

This freaked them out (as well as other passengers) until they realised that they were going the right way and the guard announced that it was the right (Holyhead) train after all.

Another worrying thing was that the toilet was out of order, on a new train? And it's the only one.

These problems don't give a good first impression of a new train, even though they could tell that it was otherwise very nice.

I also learned from @Jez on here that he was on a 4-car 197 service and wasn't able to walk between the two units internally, due to the cab-end gangway connection door on one of them not unlocking/opening (presumably due to a fault).

I contacted TfW Rail on behalf of my Mum and her partner.

I told TfW Rail that while I can appreciate that with new equipment it's not uncommon for there to be teething problems, I hope an effort is made to ensure that the 197s are reliably fully-functioning, as in most of the time go beyond merely transporting passengers, but also provide the passengers with correct automated information, toilet facilities and, in multiple unit working, the ability to walk between units internally.

That is the first time ive been on a 4 car formation and one of the gangway doors not open. The gangway was open to walk through from the front unit but the door at the other end closed. I assume it was a fault.

Aside from a few minor things ive been very impressed with the 197s overall and I personally think they will be a worthy successor to the 175s and certainly better than any Sprinter.