CAF Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[SuperLuke2334]

The early allocations are (in my experience) often quite wrong, I've seen a good number of 150s or 153s on the Cambrian during the early draft, but it's a nice surprise going to sleep expecting a single 150 and waking up to a double 175!
It's already changed to a 2+2 197

I thought it would change. Hopefully the 5/6 car clearance will happen soon.

 

[nigelsporne]

Although I know very little about TfW services I find this thread interesting. So with the increase in the frequency from Bidston using 197s is there also a move to increase services west of Carmarthen? The services here seem very poor in this day and age. Are services restricted because of the amount of single line and the spacing or lack of crossing points? Is there a demand? Are 197s suitable?

 

[Jez]

Although I know very little about TfW services I find this thread interesting. So with the increase in the frequency from Bidston using 197s is there also a move to increase services west of Carmarthen? The services here seem very poor in this day and age. Are services restricted because of the amount of single line and the spacing or lack of crossing points? Is there a demand? Are 197s suitable?

197s will run all TFW services West of Carmarthen eventually. As for the frequency there isnt much they can do with the single line sections i dont think aside from the planned Fishguard increase to 1 train every 2 hours.

 

[anthony263]

Although I know very little about TfW services I find this thread interesting. So with the increase in the frequency from Bidston using 197s is there also a move to increase services west of Carmarthen? The services here seem very poor in this day and age. Are services restricted because of the amount of single line and the spacing or lack of crossing points? Is there a demand? Are 197s suitable?

Pembroke dock and milford haven lines yes certainly justify additional services. I suspect with a better service you'll find more people using the Fishguard services too.

Certainly with the Pembroke dock branch you'd need to reinstate the loops at Manorbier and Templeton as well as raise linespeeds especially west of Tenby

 

[Aquamanda]

Hi, does anyone know if the December 2023 197 Cambrian activity mentioned is happening, and if so, any of the dates for this? I'm particularly interested in 197s going to Aberystwyth. Thanks for any responses.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Hi, does anyone know if the December 2023 197 Cambrian activity mentioned is happening, and if so, any of the dates for this? I'm particularly interested in 197s going to Aberystwyth. Thanks for any responses.

No chance, none of the Cambrian 197 units have been accepted yet and there is still a lot of testing to be done. Dec 2024 is more likely I'd say.

 

[Aquamanda]

Thanks for the reply, but I thought the date I mentioned would've implied that I wasn't asking about passenger services.

At the end of Lurcheroo's post #5,151 on page 172, the following is said:

"Last plan I heard was

final testing of 197’s in December (2023)

then crew training starts next June/ July (2024) with 197’s into service on the Cambrian in December 2024."

So if anyone could answer my original question of "Hi, does anyone know if the December 2023 197 Cambrian activity mentioned is happening, and if so, any of the dates for this? I'm particularly interested in 197s going to Aberystwyth. Thanks for any responses.", I'd be very grateful.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Thanks for the reply, but I thought the date I mentioned would've implied that I wasn't asking about passenger services.

At the end of Lurcheroo's post #5,151 on page 172, the following is said:

"Last plan I heard was

final testing of 197’s in December (2023)

then crew training starts next June/ July (2024) with 197’s into service on the Cambrian in December 2024."

So if anyone could answer my original question of "Hi, does anyone know if the December 2023 197 Cambrian activity mentioned is happening, and if so, any of the dates for this? I'm particularly interested in 197s going to Aberystwyth. Thanks for any responses.", I'd be very grateful.

Ah, I see now, I do apologise!

 

[Lurcheroo]

Thanks for the reply, but I thought the date I mentioned would've implied that I wasn't asking about passenger services.

At the end of Lurcheroo's post #5,151 on page 172, the following is said:

"Last plan I heard was

final testing of 197’s in December (2023)

then crew training starts next June/ July (2024) with 197’s into service on the Cambrian in December 2024."

So if anyone could answer my original question of "Hi, does anyone know if the December 2023 197 Cambrian activity mentioned is happening, and if so, any of the dates for this? I'm particularly interested in 197s going to Aberystwyth. Thanks for any responses.", I'd be very grateful.

So I have not heard specifically about the December testing, but the training team in Chester have told me that they have got Cambrian train crew booked in for their 197 conversion training for September 2024. This is later than In the plan I posted, so that might mean the December 197 testing is being pushed back (I do not have confirmation either way sorry).

 

[Aquamanda]

Thanks both

 

[sd0733]

Only 20 197s in service today to cover 30 diagrams, 2 others (045+008) made it 1 stop from Shrewsbury to Gobowen before failing. Availability really suffering with mostly wheelflats but several other faults too.

197001 and 006 are currently out of use at Holyhead unfit to run with severe wheelflats until they can be recovered and tyre turned.

197007/012/017 are at Chester having not been used since Novemeber 16th, 14th and 13th respectively with unspecified faults.

Hopefully once leaf fall the wheelflat situation will improve and help availability. Believe some of the CAF techs who normally go through the acceptance process are being used to keep current fleet operational and with so many parked on depots there's a lack of space too hence the recent reduction in sets being accepted.

 

[Cambrian359]

Only 20 197s in service today to cover 30 diagrams, 2 others (045+008) made it 1 stop from Shrewsbury to Gobowen before failing. Availability really suffering with mostly wheelflats but several other faults too.

197001 and 006 are currently out of use at Holyhead unfit to run with severe wheelflats until they can be recovered and tyre turned.

197007/012/017 are at Chester having not been used since Novemeber 16th, 14th and 13th respectively with unspecified faults.

Hopefully once leaf fall the wheelflat situation will improve and help availability. Believe some of the CAF techs who normally go through the acceptance process are being used to keep current fleet operational and with so many parked on depots there's a lack of space too hence the recent reduction in sets being accepted.

Given the return of northens 150s, slowdown in acceptance of 197s and the increase in services in the new timetable change in a few short days it could be an interesting few weeks ahead for TFW!!
Their luck has got to change to positive soon as they’ve had quite an unlucky year so far

 

[sd0733]

Given the return of northens 150s, slowdown in acceptance of 197s and the increase in services in the new timetable change in a few short days it could be an interesting few weeks ahead for TFW!!
Their luck has got to change to positive soon as they’ve had quite an unlucky year so far

Hopefully. Seemingly though when one thing is solved another unfortunate series of events rears its ugly head!!

 

[childwallblues]

197015 is on CTR-LIV today.

 

[Jez]

Despite so few 197s in service , it was a nice surprise to see a 197 on the 1105 swanline today I think for the first time for this particular swanline service (although i could be wrong, but when it does run its a Sprinter when ive seen it). Seemed to be perfectly on time and a few minutes early infact into Port Talbot and Bridgend. But a shame we lost time around Pontyclun (possibly due to the training 197 in front of us being looped as there was another 197 in the loop when we passed) Even losing this time it only arrived 1 minute late into Central going by the advertised arrival time so by recent standards that is amazing!

The training 197 that arrived into Port Talbot about 10 minutes ahead seemed to cause some confusion for passengers. Obviously i knew it was a training set so didnt attempt to board, for one thing it arrived empty, for another it wasnt on the screens and was far too early to be the swanline. But the guard had to shout to passengers 'back back back' to stop them boarding! You would think someone would make a manual announcement over the tannoy telling passengers it wasnt for public use. They often do this at Cardiff rather loudly on the tannoy when trains terminate there.

It does show that the 197s will be good for timing when they eventually go onto the core Swanline services compared to the 153 pairs which are often late.

Only 20 197s in service today to cover 30 diagrams, 2 others (045+008) made it 1 stop from Shrewsbury to Gobowen before failing. Availability really suffering with mostly wheelflats but several other faults too.

197001 and 006 are currently out of use at Holyhead unfit to run with severe wheelflats until they can be recovered and tyre turned.

197007/012/017 are at Chester having not been used since Novemeber 16th, 14th and 13th respectively with unspecified faults.

Hopefully once leaf fall the wheelflat situation will improve and help availability. Believe some of the CAF techs who normally go through the acceptance process are being used to keep current fleet operational and with so many parked on depots there's a lack of space too hence the recent reduction in sets being accepted.

I noticed quite a few cancellations and short forms today. Also there was some confusion at Central when i made my return journey as the 15xx service to Manchester which was a 3 car 197 was actually turned back and went back to Carmarthen. The Manchester was then formed of a 2 car 150 which actually terminated from Manchester instead of it being a MK4. Good stepping up when needed due to shortage of units but i didnt envy any Manchester passengers having to ride a 150. The Manchester departure also changed platforms 3 times - from 1 to 3 to 2 and then eventually platform 4!

Given the return of northens 150s, slowdown in acceptance of 197s and the increase in services in the new timetable change in a few short days it could be an interesting few weeks ahead for TFW!!
Their luck has got to change to positive soon as they’ve had quite an unlucky year so far

it will be interesting indeed especially as 5 carriages were meant to start from the December 23 timetable change on Swansea-Manchester services.

 

[Bikeman78]

I noticed quite a few cancellations and short forms today. Also there was some confusion at Central when i made my return journey as the 15xx service to Manchester which was a 3 car 197 was actually turned back and went back to Carmarthen. The Manchester was then formed of a 2 car 150 which actually terminated from Manchester instead of it being a MK4. Good stepping up when needed due to shortage of units but i didnt envy any Manchester passengers having to ride a 150. The Manchester departure also changed platforms 3 times - from 1 to 3 to 2 and then eventually platform 4!

Looking at RTT another class 150 attached at Shrewsbury to provide two units for them to split at Manchester as booked. I guess there wasn't a 197 to attach and in any case I don't think more than four cars are allowed so attaching to 197105 would have been impossible.

 

[Dan G]

I'm surprised modern control electronics can't prevent wheel flats.

 

[tomos dafis]

89 cancellations and 5 curtailments across TFW network tomorrow Wed 6 Dec - no doubt unexpectedly poor availability of brand new 197's with wheel flats for goodness sake (thought those problems went when the pacers went and 150's were all fitted with WSP -isn't this fitted to new 197 and 231 trains?) and other problems with them and other stock means lots of 'more trains than normal needing.........'. Feels like almost back to that awful November/December 2018 after the franchise changed October 2018 and the sidelining of a lot of the pacer and 150 fleet with wheel flats and storm damage.

With the departure of the northern 150's and the 3 remainig 170's, poor availability of the accepted 197's which are already late into service means the run up to christmas could be rather troubled for TFW passengers.

 

[willnotadmit]

Heard rumours about what the Ferryside issue is. Apparently something to do with platform height. No word on when it'll be fixed though, so looks like it'll be old stock on West Wales-Cardiff Central/Swansea services for the forseeable.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Heard rumours about what the Ferryside issue is. Apparently something to do with platform height. No word on when it'll be fixed though, so looks like it'll be old stock on West Wales-Cardiff Central/Swansea services for the forseeable.

Well no, pretty much all Manchester - Carmarthen services are 197s now, just with a bus shuttle to Ferryside from Carmarthen. What we do need now though, is for 197s to be able to go to Milford, Pembroke and Fishguard, and via Rhoose.

 

[tomos dafis]

Well no, pretty much all Manchester - Carmarthen services are 197s now, just with a bus shuttle to Ferryside from Carmarthen. What we do need now though, is for 197s to be able to go to Milford, Pembroke and Fishguard, and via Rhoose.

we also need the new 197's to work in autumn conditions without getting wheel flats and to be available for service without breaking down or failing so they can reliably replace departed units and provide a better service than what is happening tomorrow with 89 cancellations.
The rumoured problem at Ferryside is, if true, just another example of poor planning and project management like the debacle at Quakers' Yard station which has been closed for weeks.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

we also need the new 197's to work in autumn conditions without getting wheel flats and to be available for service without breaking down or failing so they can reliably replace departed units and provide a better service than what is happening tomorrow with 89 cancellations.
The rumoured problem at Ferryside is, if true, just another example of poor planning and project management like the debacle at Quakers' Yard station which has been closed for weeks.

Eighty-nine, good gosh. What with a shocking proportion of Great Western Railway services being cancelled (or truncated at Westbury) this week, it's looking like another dire day for Newport and Cardiff then. Almost all of Cardiff Central's platform and gateline staff are extremely rude too, and don't provide much help to customers looking to travel whose services have been cancelled.

 

[Anonymous10]

we also need the new 197's to work in autumn conditions without getting wheel flats and to be available for service without breaking down or failing so they can reliably replace departed units and provide a better service than what is happening tomorrow with 89 cancellations.
The rumoured problem at Ferryside is, if true, just another example of poor planning and project management like the debacle at Quakers' Yard station which has been closed for weeks.

In my opinion with how the British rail network was developed there'd always be a few troublesome stations, that don't quite allow the 197s to fit their specs. For Ferryside it's platform height apparently, if so surely its better to adapt a handful stations than to have a train impeded because of a few stations.

Re wheelflats I believe craigybagel has given us a decent insight into what may be causing it namely the power of the unit, the electric throttle (correct me if I'm wrong) and hold over driving tendencies from 15x stock. I would hope for this to settle down next year when staff are more familiar.

 

[Envoy]

Does Northern with the similar Class 195’s or West Midland Railway with the 196’s have all of these problems?

 

[FrodshamJnct]

89 cancellations and 5 curtailments across TFW network tomorrow Wed 6 Dec - no doubt unexpectedly poor availability of brand new 197's with wheel flats for goodness sake (thought those problems went when the pacers went and 150's were all fitted with WSP -isn't this fitted to new 197 and 231 trains?) and other problems with them and other stock means lots of 'more trains than normal needing.........'. Feels like almost back to that awful November/December 2018 after the franchise changed October 2018 and the sidelining of a lot of the pacer and 150 fleet with wheel flats and storm damage.

With the departure of the northern 150's and the 3 remainig 170's, poor availability of the accepted 197's which are already late into service means the run up to christmas could be rather troubled for TFW passengers.

Well they’ve managed to find 5 carriages to whack on 1H82 from Chester to the airport this morning. A pleasant surprise this morning.

 

[sd0733]

Now 9 197s stopped with wheelflats and another 2 on the verge of being stopped. The last of these aren't expected back until Mid-January awaiting repairs.

Due to how many are out of service I believe some of the timetable enhancements for Monday will now not happen until January when there's a realistic chance that they can be run.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Now 9 197s stopped with wheelflats and another 2 on the verge of being stopped. The last of these aren't expected back until Mid-January awaiting repairs.

Due to how many are out of service I believe some of the timetable enhancements for Monday will now not happen until January when there's a realistic chance that they can be run.

There goes my hourly service to Lime St!

 

[sd0733]

What we do need now though, is for 197s to be able to go to Milford, Pembroke and Fishguard, and via Rhoose.

Personally I'd disagree and say what's really needed is for the 197s to start behaving rather better and get all the issues with the current operation resolved as well as getting 5 car passed for all the main routes.
There's very little point spreading them thinner and thinner and not sorting the 2 massive problems with the network- Reliability and Capacity.

 

[Dai Corner]

Now 9 197s stopped with wheelflats and another 2 on the verge of being stopped. The last of these aren't expected back until Mid-January awaiting repairs.

Due to how many are out of service I believe some of the timetable enhancements for Monday will now not happen until January when there's a realistic chance that they can be run.

There goes my hourly service to Lime St!

And that from Newport to Ebbw Vale, it's rumoured.

 

[sd0733]

There goes my hourly service to Lime St!

And that from Newport to Ebbw Vale, it's rumoured.

Yes, believe they're the 2 that aren't happening just yet unfortunately.