CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Neptune]

Almost everything emerging from Hitachi Newton Aycliffe and CAF Newport is imported (electrics, bogies, diesel power packs etc).
But the same is also true of output from Alstom Derby.
UK suppliers do supply various smaller parts to all the UK assembly plants, and bodyshell welding is available at Newton Aycliffe and Derby.
Hitachi and CAF can build you the same train in multiple locations (eg classes 802, 196).
The MTU power packs for class 80x bi-modes are made in Germany at a plant owned ultimately by Rolls-Royce.
It's a global world.

That’s my exact point. People get so hung up about these things on here as if it’s some sort of embarrassment, but the truth is that nobody really cares. Most people are just happy that people in the UK are employed to put trains together in a factory, they don’t care where the parts come from. Only rail enthusiasts seem to be bothered that the parts are built abroad.

 

[Mordac]

That’s my exact point. People get so hung up about these things on here as if it’s some sort of embarrassment, but the truth is that nobody really cares. Most people are just happy that people in the UK are employed to put trains together in a factory, they don’t care where the parts come from. Only rail enthusiasts seem to be bothered that the parts are built abroad.

And as @LNW-GW Joint alluded to, this would be true regardless of where it was built. It's an interconnected world, something as complex as a train is not going to be able to have every single part built in any one country.

 

[Neptune]

And as @LNW-GW Joint alluded to, this would be true regardless of where it was built. It's an interconnected world, something as complex as a train is not going to be able to have every single part built in any one country.

I know. I’m ageeing with them. What I’m saying is that some people seem to get so hung up on the fact that not every part is built in Britain and saying that ‘Made in Wales’ is the wrong term and it should say ‘Assembled in Wales’ or whatever. It’s just good marketing.

I’m also saying that I along with 99.9% of people don’t care where parts come from and CAF putting ‘Made in Wales’ on the train doesn’t at all matter.

 

[william.martin]

Almost everything emerging from Hitachi Newton Aycliffe and CAF Newport is imported (electrics, bogies, diesel power packs etc).
But the same is also true of output from Alstom Derby.
UK suppliers do supply various smaller parts to all the UK assembly plants, and bodyshell welding is available at Newton Aycliffe and Derby.
Hitachi and CAF can build you the same train in multiple locations (eg classes 802, 196).
The MTU power packs for class 80x bi-modes are made in Germany at a plant owned ultimately by Rolls-Royce.
It's a global world.

I thought the body shells came from CAF in Spain and that Llanwern just assembled all the components?

Surely Llanwern is the only train assembly plant in the world alongside the railway that sends completed trains out via road?

Interesting that it does actually say 'Made In Wales' even though that 'factory' is just an assembly plant - Hitachi with their similar plant in the north-east used the strapline 'Made Great In Britain' - a subtle difference.

Good luck finding a train on the whole of planet earth that all components are dug up from the ground, turned into a material, formed to make the part and is put together with all of the other parts in the same country it operates in.

 

[The_Train]

New build I believe.

You'd think they'd check if a rail connection could be made before committing to the location, unless drags were never an option.

Is this site planned to remain beyond the build process as a maintenance facility or is it just temporary for the build process?

 

[Anonymous10]

You'd think they'd check if a rail connection could be made before committing to the location, unless drags were never an option.

Is this site planned to remain beyond the build process as a maintenance facility or is it just temporary for the build process?

Believe just build maintenance is planned at Chester and Machynlleth with light maintenance at Canton.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Believe just build maintenance is planned at Chester and Machynlleth with light maintenance at Canton.

The Newport plant is also producing the class 196 fleet for WMT, and can bid for other orders.
CAF has actually increased its presence in the UK by adding a maintenance capability at Chester and at Longsight (Manchester).
These were not planned when Northern placed its 195/331 train order with CAF.

 

[Anonymous10]

The Newport plant is also producing the class 196 fleet for WMT, and can bid for other orders.
CAF has actually increased its presence in the UK by adding a maintenance capability at Chester and at Longsight (Manchester).
These were not planned when Northern placed its 195/331 train order with CAF.

Granted but the Newport facility has no rail connection and would be difficult to connect. So I doubt it'd be used but that's off topic

 

[tomuk]

You'd think they'd check if a rail connection could be made before committing to the location, unless drags were never an option.

Is this site planned to remain beyond the build process as a maintenance facility or is it just temporary for the build process?

A connection was planned the factory is tantalisingly close to the goods loop that served Llanwern Steelworks. Unfortunately somebody at the Welsh Government didn't do their homework and realise there was a large gas main in the way and that to get around the gas main would need major work.

 

[Envoy]

A connection was planned the factory is tantalisingly close to the goods loop that served Llanwern Steelworks. Unfortunately somebody at the Welsh Government didn't do their homework and realise there was a large gas main in the way and that to get around the gas main would need major work.

Surely, the gas main does not surround the whole site at Llanwern? You would think a solution could be found - even if it involves co-operation with the steel plant to the east?

I just don’t understand why these trains have to be taken all the way to Shropshire by road to be placed on the railway?

 

[Dai Corner]

Surely, the gas main does not surround the whole site at Llanwern? You would think a solution could be found - even if it involves co-operation with the steel plant to the east?

I just don’t understand why these trains have to be taken all the way to Shropshire by road to be placed on the railway?

Here's an aerial view showing the gap of less than 20m between the CAF and Tata tracks.

51°34'50.1"N 2°54'47.2"W · 51.580583, -2.913109

maps.app.goo.gl

 

[Rhydgaled]

I know. I’m ageeing with them. What I’m saying is that some people seem to get so hung up on the fact that not every part is built in Britain and saying that ‘Made in Wales’ is the wrong term and it should say ‘Assembled in Wales’ or whatever. It’s just good marketing.

I’m also saying that I along with 99.9% of people don’t care where parts come from and CAF putting ‘Made in Wales’ on the train doesn’t at all matter.

My point was more that Hitachi chose to be clever with the wording on their marketing materials 'Made Great In Britain' unlike CAF/TfW with the 'Made In Wales' claim.

 

[The_Train]

Here's an aerial view showing the gap of less than 20m between the CAF and Tata tracks.

51°34'50.1"N 2°54'47.2"W · 51.580583, -2.913109

maps.app.goo.gl

As close as getting 5 numbers on the lottery and winning £500 when 6 would have won you £5million

 

[Neptune]

My point was more that Hitachi chose to be clever with the wording on their marketing materials 'Made Great In Britain' unlike CAF/TfW with the 'Made In Wales' claim.

Sorry I fail to see the difference which in your opinion makes Hitachi’s marketing clever and CAF’s not. Both are saying ‘made in….’ for assembling trains using parts from abroad.

Unless it’s your increasingly dull anti-CAF side clouding your opinion of each company’s marketing.

 

[Topological]

My point was more that Hitachi chose to be clever with the wording on their marketing materials 'Made Great In Britain' unlike CAF/TfW with the 'Made In Wales' claim.

I had not thought about it, very subtle.

Hitachi are not saying their train was "Made in Britain", their wording allows the train to be made somewhere else and for the part that is in Britain to simply be what made the train "Great". Works because of "Great Britain" but does not actually make any claim that the train itself was made in Great Britain.

The Welsh on the other hand is very direct.

Apt I suppose.

 

[Krokodil]

Sorry I fail to see the difference which in your opinion makes Hitachi’s marketing clever and CAF’s not. Both are saying ‘made in….’ for assembling trains using parts from abroad.

Unless it’s your increasingly dull anti-CAF side clouding your opinion of each company’s marketing.

Look carefully at the wording and you'll see the pun.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I had not thought about it, very subtle.

Hitachi are not saying their train was "Made in Britain", their wording allows the train to be made somewhere else and for the part that is in Britain to simply be what made the train "Great". Works because of "Great Britain" but does not actually make any claim that the train itself was made in Great Britain.

Exactly.

Unless it’s your increasingly dull anti-CAF side clouding your opinion of each company’s marketing.

I'm not anti-CAF; while I am dead-against the class 195 and class 197 DMUs, I don't have the same hate for some of their other products. Indeed I think the TPE class 397 Civity units are in some respects closer to being a good train than the Hitachi class 800/802 units. If Hitachi were building DMUs to a similar spec as the 195s I would be against those units too.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

If we’re not let down by a driver that doesn’t sign, Cardiff should see its first 5 car working tomorrow on the 0624 from Holyhead. Plenty of room on that one for sure.

 

[sd0733]

If we’re not let down by a driver that doesn’t sign, Cardiff should see its first 5 car working tomorrow on the 0624 from Holyhead. Plenty of room on that one for sure.

Unless everything has gone through very quickly over the last few days, that'll highly likely swap at Chester, only officially signed off 4 car max other than between Chester and Manchester Airport until the last lot of proving is rubber stamped.
As far as im aware the whole lot from the recent testing is all still awaiting finalising

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Tonight, RTT shows 197 112 working throughout for 1V92, with 015 added at Chester...

 

[Anonymous10]

Tonight, RTT shows 197 112 working throughout for 1V92, with 015 added at Chester...

I'm expecting a set swap.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I'm expecting a set swap.

It’s now showing as 112 on its own throughout. This is due to a fault on 015 at Shrewsbury yesterday evening.

 

[SeaKing]

197111 showing 1H79 then 1D32

 

[Jacob Porrett]

197051 left Donnington RFT today hauled by 70005. Another ETCS unit.

 

[6Gtraincrew]

197051 left Donnington RFT today hauled by 70005. Another ETCS unit.

197051 is a non-ETCS unit. ETCS ones are 003 and 022-042 inclusive

 

[william.martin]

197051 is a non-ETCS unit. ETCS ones are 003 and 022-042 inclusive

Why 003 on its own??

 

[St. Paddy]

197051 left Donnington RFT today hauled by 70005. Another ETCS unit.

How many units at Donnington now Jacob?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Why 003 on its own??

No idea, it does seem slightly odd.

 

[sd0733]

Why 003 on its own??

It was an early build so allowed some testing to take place on the Cambrian without waiting for a later one to be delivered.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

197051 is a non-ETCS unit. ETCS ones are 003 and 022-042 inclusive

I was on 042 today between Crewe and Chester.
I think it had square wheels.
Easily the worst rider of CAF DMUs I have ridden, along with continuous knocks and bangs from underneath.
043 onwards from Chester was much better.
But neither of them was up to 158/175 standards of ride.
And can we get an "s" added to the English announcement "Thank you for travelling with Transport for Wale" (it's the same on the Mk4s too)?