CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Western 52]

There doesn't seem to be much signage to say it's standard plus.

 

[Anonymous10]

I was sent these pictures earlier of the standard plus area if anyone's not seen pictures yet.

Looks quite nice. If the fares are reasonable might make use of this on longer journeys.

 

[Rail Quest]

There doesn't seem to be much signage to say it's standard plus.

I'm assuming that because the use of standard plus hasn't actually been signed off yet then TfW haven't bothered fitting any additional decals whilst the area remains declassified perhaps?

 

[sd0733]

There doesn't seem to be much signage to say it's standard plus.

There's nothing at all.

I'm assuming that because the use of standard plus hasn't actually been signed off yet then TfW haven't bothered fitting any additional decals whilst the area remains declassified perhaps?

Hopefully! But I wouldn't be at all suprised if there's still nothing for a while yet! Hopefully I'm wrong but given how long branding the First on mk4s took....

 

[Doveymain158]

I dont think its being promoted just yet.

 

[sd0733]

I dont think its being promoted just yet.

It's not as its not starting until the 27th. To start with will be pretty much all "upselling" with onboard announcements etc.
Unsure whether it'll be given a fixed diagram or if it's just completely random and turns up on any 3 car Diagram.

 

[Envoy]

So, if not initially labelled as ‘Standard Plus’, then presumably some people will just go and sit in this section? That being so, could lead to awkward moments when staff have to tell these passengers that they must either shift to the other section of the train or pay a supplement. (It won’t look good for TfW if the standard class section is rammed - especially as some companies de-classify 1st class in such situations).

 

[Topological]

So, if not initially labelled as ‘Standard Plus’, then presumably some people will just go and sit in this section? That being so, could lead to awkward moments when staff have to tell these passengers that they must either shift to the other section of the train or pay a supplement. (It won’t look good for TfW if the standard class section is rammed - especially as some companies de-classify 1st class in such situations).

If one of these turns up alone to run one of the peak trains off Manchester then this will certainly happen. Likewise peak workings from Cardiff.

I just do not know why TfW seem so obsessed with running Intercity style trains. The routes the 197s operate on cope perfectly well with standard only and just need to provide enough seats. TfW first class on the Mk4 is brilliant, the best I have travelled in for a long time, but I just fail to see why standard class would not be a better use of the space.

 

[sd0733]

especially as some companies de-classify 1st class in such situations).

As will and do TfW. It happens on mk4s and there's processes in Place.

 

[175001]

All train ticket types | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

There is a Web page about it now

 

[CardiffKid]

All train ticket types | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

There is a Web page about it now

I think they’ve gone a bit OTT with the list of where upgrades are available (subject to availability of course). Isn’t that list everywhere a 197 can/will be operating bar the Conwy Valley? And randomly Seven Tunnel Junction(!)

 

[Class15]

All train ticket types | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

There is a Web page about it now

Interesting that Llandudno isn’t mentioned. I heard that the 197/1Bs would be operating the MAN-LLD services.

 

[sd0733]

I think they’ve gone a bit OTT with the list of where upgrades are available (subject to availability of course). Isn’t that list everywhere a 197 can/will be operating bar the Conwy Valley? And randomly Seven Tunnel Junction(!)

Does rather. Particularly The Cambrian which is a long way off 197s at all and none of the standard plus units are ERTMS fitted.

 

[L401CJF]

Does rather. Particularly The Cambrian which is a long way off 197s at all and none of the standard plus units are ERTMS fitted.

But not included on the list is Llandudno to Manchester Airport - which does have upgrade fares available in the system and I believe was the first route the SP set ran!

 

[Jez]

Im looking forward to trying the standard plus service although would do this on a longer journey of at least 2 hours which for me would most likely require it to be a set diagram/diagrams (to avoid disappointment on the day)

So, if not initially labelled as ‘Standard Plus’, then presumably some people will just go and sit in this section? That being so, could lead to awkward moments when staff have to tell these passengers that they must either shift to the other section of the train or pay a supplement. (It won’t look good for TfW if the standard class section is rammed - especially as some companies de-classify 1st class in such situations).

Exactly! How would people know they were sitting in the wrong section. I cant see passengers being happy being asked to move or pay more (especially if every other seat in standard class is taken!)

 

[Western 52]

It also mentions west Wales, but I thought the plan was for the 2 car units to split off the 5 car sets at Swansea, so normally 3 car won't work beyond there? So standard plus won't apply.

 

[Jez]

It also mentions west Wales, but I thought the plan was for the 2 car units to split off the 5 car sets at Swansea, so normally 3 car won't work beyond there? So standard plus won't apply.

That is indeed the plan long term but its possible some 3 car sets might find themselves working all the way to Milford Haven until things settle down a bit. it seems very random the places they have mentioned for standard plus.

 

[sd0733]

But not included on the list is Llandudno to Manchester Airport - which does have upgrade fares available in the system and I believe was the first route the SP set ran!

Ah yes, even stranger!

 

[Lewisham2221]

I imagine the partition door (which appears to be locked open in the image) has, or will have, some sort of decals fitted. I'd imagine decals would be fitted to the external doors and/or windows in this part of the train too. If "standard premium" doesn't actually exist until after Christmas, there's no pressing need for the area to be clearly labelled as such before Christmas.

 

[GWVillager]

I imagine the partition door (which appears to be locked open in the image) has, or will have, some sort of decals fitted. I'd imagine decals would be fitted to the external doors and/or windows in this part of the train too. If "standard premium" doesn't actually exist until after Christmas, there's no pressing need for the area to be clearly labelled as such before Christmas.

It’s just a red and white bar at the moment. I don’t think there’s any branding.

 

[Cambrian359]

Perhaps people shouldn’t get to worked up about it just yet as anyone who doesn’t approve doesn’t have to upgrade or use!!
Also them single seats look like heaven!! I would definitely pay extra to get one of them!!

 

[Envoy]

Why in the publicity shot did they decide to use a 2 car at Blaenau Ffestiniog? No 2 cars have standard plus and it certainly won't be on the Conwy Valley line.

Neither will standard plus be on the Cambrian - yet they state that route in the publicity.

Wonder what will happen west of Swansea? The plan is to have only 2 cars but with Pembrokeshire lines only every other hour - will that be enough despite the lower population? Can't see 2 cars being enough in summer to Pembrokeshire - well, certainly not Tenby.

 

[Topological]

2 car in Pembrokeshire is consistent with what has been going there? I assume that the additional trains that start at Swansea/Carmarthen still run and it is not just the trains coming down from Manchester.

Presumably some 3's will run amongst all of that, and no doubt ones with this gimmick class whilst trains without are on the Manchester because it is too hard to split a pool (as apparently it was when there were Northern 150s to avoid booking on Manchester services)

 

[Jamesrob637]

I was sent these pictures earlier of the standard plus area if anyone's not seen pictures yet.

Slightly reminiscent of the TPE Mk5 First Class.

 

[GWVillager]

The seats are very comfortable, they’ve got the same good shape as the IET/TPE seats, but with much better padding. There appear to be stylised table lamps but I’m not sure if/how they can be turned on. The lighting could be improved (but this is also the case in standard, of course), and window alignment is really awful. Whilst the winged headrests are nice, the padded cushion is too soft in my opinion.

Generally, though, it’s really good and I’ll definitely be upgrading in future.

 

[Lurcheroo]

The seats are very comfortable, they’ve got the same good shape as the IET/TPE seats, but with much better padding. There appear to be stylised table lamps but I’m not sure if/how they can be turned on. The lighting could be improved (but this is also the case in standard, of course), and window alignment is really awful. Whilst the winged headrests are nice, the padded cushion is too soft in my opinion.

Generally, though, it’s really good and I’ll definitely be upgrading in future.

Very good to hear ! Spotted it at shrewsbury at about 1:20 and I thought it looked nice.
Will almost certainly join you in upgrading if it’s available.

 

[nwales58]

Does rather. Particularly The Cambrian which is a long way off 197s at all and none of the standard plus units are ERTMS fitted.

First on the list is Shrewsbury-Birmingham for which there are no PUG fares nor likely 197s at present.

Normal people reading the TfW page therefore see 6 routes of which only 3-4 are relevant.

There is progress though, the announcements have at last been corrected so the welsh no longer says non-stop to the terminus.

 

[sd0733]

Standard plus has been temporarily delayed to an unknown date until branding is put onto it.

 

[nigelsporne]

I am sorry but I think TfW is just unnecessarily creating problems for itself with the Standard Plus or pseudo First Class what ever it wants to call it. They should call it something that the general public can easily understand and relate to and price it accordingly. Only people in the know would understand the subtle difference. To also only have certain 3 car units with this option further complicated matters. TfW needs to get it's act together and ensure the option is only on certain routes on which the ordinary passenger knows it will be available. If the list in the press release is what is proposed then so be it. The Regulator is trying to simplify ticket options but TfW appears to be adding a complication. End of rant.

 

[sd0733]

I am sorry but I think TfW is just unnecessarily creating problems for itself with the Standard Plus or pseudo First Class what ever it wants to call it. They should call it something that the general public can easily understand and relate to and price it accordingly. Only people in the know would understand the subtle difference. To also only have certain 3 car units with this option further complicated matters. TfW needs to get it's act together and ensure the option is only on certain routes on which the ordinary passenger knows it will be available. If the list in the press release is what is proposed then so be it. The Regulator is trying to simplify ticket options but TfW appears to be adding a complication. End of rant.

People seem to have taken to Standard Premium on Avanti, always looks busy when I see it. There's also Premium Economy on most airlines these days.

Whilst I'd agree that the press release is extremely poor; including routes that aren't 197s even but missing those that already have Standard Plus fares. Where I don't agree is that it's adding complication. If a passenger wants it then they'll upgrade if they don't then they'll stay where they are and ignore its existence.
Whilst personally I think it should have been introduced later but en-masse that's not the decision taken so Whilst at first it seems it will be rather a mixed deployment, eventually it should become more dependable, really it introduces passenger choice not complexity.

The fares are (in my opinion) extremely competitive For example £13 upgrade Manchester to Cardiff. I think at those prices eventually capacity in there could be the biggest issue!