CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Jez]

Cheltenham/Ebbw Vale/Maesteg.switching to 231's would free up 7 x 197s. Plus the 197 covering for a 230. So thats 8 extra once everything is in place.

There are 5 MK4 diagrams Mon-Friday rather than 6. But most of the time a 197 seems to be covering one of them.

 

[Peter Sarf]

197035 seen at Llandudno Jn today (yesterday) so definitely in service

Thanks for the confirmation/

And thanks to @tfw756rider for 024.

I think TfW must be rotating the ETCS 197s through service to keep them "not cold stored" ?.
Will be interesting to see how long it takes for those sent back to Holyhead to reappear.

 

[Topological]

It depends how quickly it updates, sometimes the T or Z headcode is updated quickly and works, other times you have to use the original headcode.

Other realtime updates are quite useful too, say a service is running late and control decide to run the train fast to say Llandudno junction from Chester, it's sent out to the unit and the PIS updates itself to remove the other stops. Same for terminating short they can remotely update the headcode to now terminate at say Bangor instead of Holyhead and the onboard PIS will reflect this. Quite clever.

If you have a look through the PIS audio files (I believe available from the TFW website for download), they have a huge selection of not currently utilised announcements too such as reasons for delay, terminating short, cancellations. They've also got Blackpool North on there for some reason, presumably they just cloned whatever was in the 175 database as they used to go there.

It is a good feature. Means I am now looking at the display on 1W12 waiting for it to change from Manchester Piccadilly (scheduled arrival now 09:34) to somewhere short of Manchester.

I have noticed it update in the past. Though I have not been on a train that has had stops removed.

 

[Markdvdman]

Realtimetrains had the 11:30am Manchester to Milford Haven service down as a 2 car 197. It was horrendously late and guess what? It was a 150. 40 mins or so late getting off at Llanelli. I was lucky to get as seat but msny not do

 

[Anonymous10]

Realtimetrains had the 11:30am Manchester to Milford Haven service down as a 2 car 197. It was horrendously late and guess what? It was a 150. 40 mins or so late getting off at Llanelli. I was lucky to get as seat but msny not do

What day was this as the 1130 off Manchester is showing 13 minutes late and as a 197 throughout on rtt with 5 coaches to Swansea.

 

[Markdvdman]

Sorry it was last Friday. 9th May

 

[Jez]

Sorry it was last Friday. 9th May

RTT is showing a 197 worked Manchester to Cardiff with a 150 taking over at Cardiff. I think its been many months since a 150 worked Cardiff-Manchester - a few did work to Hereford when the line was closed further up.

 

[Mr T]

I was in Holyhead last Sunday (4th), and I can confirm units 022/024/003 and 030 were all visible - three of which were in the storage sidings, and one of which was in the station sidings. There were eight units in the storage sidings and from this forum I think three others I couldn't read off were 027/031 and 033. I noticed that 035 went into service during the week - was this one of the other two I couldn't see, and does anyone know what the other one was? Thanks for any help.

I was there last Tuesday. 197034 was opposite platform 1. The storage sidings had 197030/022 nearest Victoria Road, 197033/031 on the middle line and 197003/036/027 furthest from the road. 197024 was on the new depot. Hope this helps.

 

[WirralLine]

197109 running around with old version PIS screens showing speed etc in green and has the full array of never ending announcements playing like they used to.

 

[SeaKing]

I was there last Tuesday. 197034 was opposite platform 1. The storage sidings had 197030/022 nearest Victoria Road, 197033/031 on the middle line and 197003/036/027 furthest from the road. 197024 was on the new depot. Hope this helps.

Is it easy to see the unit numbers.

 

[Mr T]

Is it easy to see the unit numbers.

I took photos on my camera and then zoomed in on the image afterwards to pick off the numbers.

 

[Christian Schm]

I was on the 1607 from AGV to NWP yesterday. It was a five coach train (3+2). The aircon in the 2 coach one wasn’t working. But it was fine in the 3 coach one, and through the connection still acceptable quite a way into the the other one. The last coach though was bowling.

This morning the 1000 from NWP up the Marches was 2 coach only, so it was standing to Abergavenny just like before the 197s came along

 

[55009AC]

I was there last Tuesday. 197034 was opposite platform 1. The storage sidings had 197030/022 nearest Victoria Road, 197033/031 on the middle line and 197003/036/027 furthest from the road. 197024 was on the new depot. Hope this helps.

Thanks, that's brilliant.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

197032 arrived at Donnington RFT today and it will be transferred over to Crewe on Thursday. The last unit I've been told. Please don't shoot the messenger.

 

[SeaKing]

197032 arrived at Donnington RFT today and it will be transferred over to Crewe on Thursday. The last unit I've been told. Please don't shoot the messenger.

Like to know where 38-41 are hiding in that case, unless TFW have amended the order, or this is the last one to go to Donnington.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Like to know where 38-41 are hiding in that case, unless TFW have amended the order, or this is the last one to go to Donnington.

Maybe the last one through Donnington or Crewe? I don't have anymore information than what I've been told.

 

[BenBracken]

Slightly off topic but it does involve a 197! Caught one to Fishguard this morning, it said on the platform display the service was ‘Delayed’ with no specified time. I could hear the announcement on the other platform saying the return service was also delayed. RTT showed it as having departed Carmarthen with no stops showing in between. But it arrived on time, slightly early in fact! The guard also said an earlier Milford service has the same issue. Is there some form of automatic sensor on the unit or tracks that triggers a delayed message that was faulty and stopped it showing up on RTT?

 

[Sheridan]

It’s been discussed elsewhere, TfW have got a new or updated PIS, but an irritating quirk of it is that if no timing information is received for a given point then it will default to showing delayed.

As for the stops in between, chances are there is no signalling or other infrastructure there which can record a time so it relies on GPS on the train or nothing - and it often seems to end up with nothing.

 

[60159]

Like to know where 38-41 are hiding in that case, unless TFW have amended the order, or this is the last one to go to Donnington.

Has 025 been seen yet?

 

[tfw756rider]

197032 arrived at Donnington RFT today and it will be transferred over to Crewe on Thursday. The last unit I've been told. Please don't shoot the messenger.

Is 197032 a 2025 197 then?

I've been trying to work out which 197s were built in which year.

Every 197 has basically two parts that carry a manufacture year - a plaque on each bogie, and the windows (and toilet mirrors).

The manufacture years on the windows (and toilet mirrors) are always visible (but one unit can have windows of different manufacture years).

The manufacture years on the bogies are only visible if they're clean, but so far I've only seen bogies of one manufacture year on a unit.

I have got an ongoing list of manufacture years I've seen on 197s (I have travelled on 41 197s but have only got years from 15, plus any contributions from others on here):

197010 - 2020 toilet mirror
197014 - 2020 toilet mirror
197018 - 2020 toilet mirror
197020 - 2020 toilet mirror
197103 - 2020 big toilet mirror

197120 - 2020 and 2021 window glass

197009 - 2021 window glass (one window)
197024 - 2021 bogies
197047 - 2021 toilet mirror
197114 - 2021 big toilet mirror
197124 - 2021 window glass (thanks @SWML9102)

197042 - 2020, 2021 and 2022 window glass

197029 - 2021 toilet mirror, 2022 window glass

197051 - 2022 bogies
197119 - 2022 bogies

197033 - 2023 toilet mirror

So as far as I can work out:

• 197010/011/012/013/014/015/016/017/018/019/020 and 197103 - those 12 units were probably all built in 2020
• 197009/024 and 197114/120/124 - those 5 units were probably all built in 2021
• 197029/042/043/044/045/046/047/048/049/050/051 and 197119 - those 12 units were probably all built in 2022
• 197033 - that unit was probably built in 2023

I'd appreciate if, when anyone in here travels on any of 197001/002/003/004/005/006/007/008/021/028/029/030/031/034/035 or 197101/102/104/105/106/107/108/109/110/111/112/113/115/116/117/118/121/122/123/125/126, they could (if not too much hassle) get a manufacture date from the unit for me (either the big toilet mirror, a window or a couple or few of them, or, if clean, a bogie plaque). Of course, I'll continue to look myself as well.

I've seen 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023 so far, but not yet 2024 or 2025.

 

[SWML9102]

On 124 now. Shows 21 on window glass. Interesting to see your list.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Realtime Trains | 4G97 0626 Basford Hall Yard (Fl) to Donnington Rft | 15/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 4G97 0626 departure from Basford Hall Yard (Fl) to Donnington Rft on 15/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 6G97 0936 Donnington Rft to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) | 15/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 6G97 0936 departure from Donnington Rft to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) on 15/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

197032 tomorrow.

 

[tfw756rider]

On 124 now. Shows 21 on window glass. Interesting to see your list.

Thanks! Ah yeah, the window/mirror dates are MM/YY (like 05/21 for example). The bogie years are just full years like "2022" if I recall correctly.

Realtime Trains | 4G97 0626 Basford Hall Yard (Fl) to Donnington Rft | 15/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 4G97 0626 departure from Basford Hall Yard (Fl) to Donnington Rft on 15/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 6G97 0936 Donnington Rft to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) | 15/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 6G97 0936 departure from Donnington Rft to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) on 15/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

197032 tomorrow.

Thanks for linking them to us Jacob

 

[childwallblues]

I took photos on my camera and then zoomed in on the image afterwards to pick off the numbers.

 

[tfw756rider]

@childwallblues you quoted a post but didn't say anything in reply. Did you mean to say something?

 

[childwallblues]

@childwallblues you quoted a post but didn't say anything in reply. Did you mean to say something?

My apologies. I plan to visit Holyhead next Tuesday so thank you for the information.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

New kid TFW Class 197032 seen at Donnington RFT today. (14/5/25)

 

[tfw756rider]

New kid TFW Class 197032 seen at Donnington RFT today. (14/5/25)

Nicely captured! Youngest 197? 2025 197?

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Nicely captured! Youngest 197? 2025 197?

I probably won't know (unless anyone else knows) until I clean it at work in a few weeks time.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Is 197032 a 2025 197 then?

I've been trying to work out which 197s were built in which year.

Every 197 has basically two parts that carry a manufacture year - a plaque on each bogie, and the windows (and toilet mirrors).

The manufacture years on the windows (and toilet mirrors) are always visible (but one unit can have windows of different manufacture years).

The manufacture years on the bogies are only visible if they're clean, but so far I've only seen bogies of one manufacture year on a unit.

I have got an ongoing list of manufacture years I've seen on 197s (I have travelled on 40 197s but have only got years from 14, plus any contributions from others on here):

197010 - 2020 above-sink toilet mirror
197014 - 2020 above-sink toilet mirror
197018 - 2020 above-sink toilet mirror
197020 - 2020 above-sink toilet mirror
197103 - 2020 above-sink big toilet mirror

197120 - 2020 and 2021 window glass

197009 - 2021 window glass (one window)
197024 - 2021 bogies
197047 - 2021 above-sink toilet mirror
197114 - 2021 above-sink big toilet mirror
197124 - 2021 window glass (thanks @SWML9102)

197042 - 2020, 2021 and 2022 window glass

197051 - 2022 bogies
197119 - 2022 bogies

197033 - 2023 big toilet above-sink mirror

So as far as I can work out:

• 197010/011/012/013/014/015/016/017/018/019/020 and 197103 - those 12 units were probably all built in 2020
• 197009/024 and 197114/120/124 - those 5 units were probably all built in 2021
• 197042/043/044/045/046/047/048/049/050/051 and 197119 - those 11 units were probably all built in 2022
• 197033 - that unit was probably built in 2023

I'd appreciate if, when anyone in here travels on any of 197001/002/003/004/005/006/007/008/021/028/029/030/031/034/035 or 197101/102/104/105/106/107/108/109/110/111/112/113/115/116/117/118/121/122/123/125/126, they could (if not too much hassle) get a manufacture date from the unit for me (either the above-sink big toilet mirror, a window or a couple or few of them, or, if clean, a bogie plaque). Of course, I'll continue to look myself as well.

I've seen 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023 so far, but not yet 2024 or 2025.

All those dates will most likely be date of manufacture of the relevant parts. So the complete unit will be built that year or later.

Obviously a unit might have a window saying 2025 but only because the original window was replaced. So the likes of 197032 might have been built earlier than 2025.

Then of course we know that a unit could be built out of a mixture of coaches not necessarily the ones one would expect. For example it is suspected that some 720s swapped coaches after delivery and on return to Derby.