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Caledonian Sleeper discussion

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BRX

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I'm not sure why we're discussing North American examples when there is longstanding precedent of many, many international sleeper trains regularly operating throughout Europe and its bordering regions, some fully within the EU, some fully outside the EU, and some crossing into/out of the EU.

I don't see any particular reason to worry about CS continuing in the event of Scotland splitting from the UK. The same demand for the service would exist.
 
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Highland37

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I'm not sure why we're discussing North American examples when there is longstanding precedent of many, many international sleeper trains regularly operating throughout Europe and its bordering regions, some fully within the EU, some fully outside the EU, and some crossing into/out of the EU.

I don't see any particular reason to worry about CS continuing in the event of Scotland splitting from the UK. The same demand for the service would exist.

Me neither. I think it stems from the standpoint that everything in Scotland is 100% dependent on being part of the UK and it comes naturally to people who hold this view.

I am writing from from a rattly Class 170 in Perth Station. Saw a Freightliner 90 at Waverley today so presume it was on the sleeper going north?

If the 92 can't be made reliable, just get an 88 or order a TRAXX with UK loading gauge. Just like that!
 

BRX

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Back to current matters...

Are the 73s being used with any frequency on the Fort William section yet?
 

87015

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87002 has been out and about on the Lowland sleeper this week.

Up Glasgow tonight but there are enough skoda's showing as available at Crewe to potentially swap tomorrow.
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Back to current matters...

Are the 73s being used with any frequency on the Fort William section yet?

Tonight, the only ED out is on the Inverness, paired with 66736. Skipjunk on Fort Bill, Aberdeen and Carstairs portions.
 

Essexman

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Up Glasgow tonight but there are enough skoda's showing as available at Crewe to potentially swap tomorrow.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Tonight, the only ED out is on the Inverness, paired with 66736. Skipjunk on Fort Bill, Aberdeen and Carstairs portions.

Sorry to be ignorant but would someone mind translating this.
 

fgwrich

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Is it fair to say that I find these designs a little underwhelming? It almost looks like a larger re-design of the current Mk3 Cabins, than something that to me says Wow, this is a new train, innovative and different. There's just something about it - maybe it's the colours, or the large rectangular light?
 

Crossover

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Are there any pick-up/set-down only restrictions in the English sleeper stops (Watford, Crewe, Preston, and Carlisle), or can I get in and out both ways?

As far as I know, Watford Jn, Crewe, Preston and Carlisle are all pick-up only on the Down and set-down only on the Up

Is it fair to say that I find these designs a little underwhelming? It almost looks like a larger re-design of the current Mk3 Cabins, than something that to me says Wow, this is a new train, innovative and different. There's just something about it - maybe it's the colours, or the large rectangular light?

There seems to be an apparent lack of luggage space...and nothing to cover the sink to make that into another surface - those were my first thoughts!
 

ld0595

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The first bodyshells of the new coaches have been revealed.

Another preview of the new cabin. Looks like luggage could easily be stored under the bed provided it isn't a huge suitcase.

CmMFyztXIAEdmbn.jpg:large

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jamesontheroad

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Sink is very boutique-hotel, but not so practical without a cover as noted above. The renders and the mockup in this Scotsman article both neglect to include some kind of barrier to prevent the occupant of the upper berth rolling off.
 

Altnabreac

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The first bodyshells of the new coaches have been revealed.

Another preview of the new cabin. Looks like luggage could easily be stored under the bed provided it isn't a huge suitcase.

CmMFyztXIAEdmbn.jpg:large

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I like them. More luggage storage than at present with plenty of space under the bed. Double Bed with single bunk above will be a useful option for families as well.

Also some useful information on the Transport Scotland website about more seating space in the Lounge Car and more charging points in the cabins:

Scotland’s Transport Minister Humza Yousaf MSP boarded a prototype of new Caledonian Sleeper train carriages today (Thursday 30 June 2016) for a sneak preview of what will be a world class guest experience.

Mr Yousaf was treated to an exclusive preview of the new train design, which features double room accommodation, a first in the UK. The new fleet will also introduce en-suite toilet and showers in a number of rooms in the accommodation carriages alongside other new design features.

The design of the train has evolved over the last year following a consultation process. Several new features have been included such as a hotel style key card entry system, more accessible rooms, and reclining seats, upgraded panels for phone and gadget charging and wifi.

The prototype carriages were installed at a warehouse near Edinburgh to allow feedback ahead of the full build programme by supplier CAF in Spain, which is now underway.

The new design will ensure guests, whether on business or leisure, enjoy a hotel-style experience, waking at their destination refreshed and rejuvenated having travelled in luxury and comfort.

And in response to the ever-growing popularity of hospitality on board the Caledonian Sleeper, the Lounge Car for dining will be further upgraded with more seating options and social space serving the best of Scottish produce in the on board menu,

Scottish interior designer Ian Smith has overseen the look and feel of the new carriages, with the patterns reflecting a contemporary Scotland.

Peter Strachan, Managing Director, Caledonian Sleeper, said: “Sitting with Humza Yousaf aboard the new Lounge Car allowed us to fast forward to 2018 and get a real feel for what will be a new standard of overnight travel between Scotland and London.

“We have made a number of improvements to the design plans for the new Caledonian Sleeper based on discussion with stakeholders and model testing, most notably the introduction of double beds which will enhance the Caledonian Sleeper’s reputation for being one of the world’s most enchanting travel experiences.”

Over £150m is being invested in the new fleet, which is part funded by a £60m capital grant from Scottish Ministers.

Minister for Transport & Islands, Humza Yousaf said:

“The Scottish Government is committed to improving every aspect of Scotland’s railways, no less so than on one of the truly iconic Scottish rail services.

“When investing upwards of £60m, we wanted a new sleeper service that incorporated cutting edge design, top class passenger catering and a service that was emblematic of the very best Scotland has to offer. We also wanted a service that would enhance travel options to and from London as well as encourage more tourists to visit Scotland.

“Today’s glimpse of what innovative and never-before-seen upgrades to

services rail passengers can expect is breathtaking, and I look forward to the trains moving to full production and then into service.”

The introduction of new trains will be the culmination in a raft of improvements and investments in the Caledonian Sleeper since Serco took over the franchise on behalf of the Scottish Government in April 2015.

Highlights include a new Guest Service Centre in Inverness as well as new uniforms, toiletries and food and beverage offer, all supplied by Scottish companies.
http://www.transport.gov.scot/news/transport-minister-glimpses-future-caledonian-sleeper
 

Crossover

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Sink is very boutique-hotel, but not so practical without a cover as noted above. The renders and the mockup in this Scotsman article both neglect to include some kind of barrier to prevent the occupant of the upper berth rolling off.

Link isn't working but from the other photos there appears to be a lack of equipment for the occupant of the upper berth getting to the upper berth in the first place!
 

AngusH

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I can't even see how a ladder could fit, given the angles.

Am I missing something obvious?
 

Philip Phlopp

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Link isn't working but from the other photos there appears to be a lack of equipment for the occupant of the upper berth getting to the upper berth in the first place!

http://www.scotsman.com/news/transp...eeper-berths-to-feature-double-beds-1-4165526

Edited highlights

Double bed cabins won't have a third fold down bunk.

Showers with enough water for 20 minutes per person.

Galley capable of cooking eggs and toast.

Seated sleeper won't have fold flat beds as they can't meet safety requirements.

Seated coaches get overhead lockable storage.

No shared berths now.

Prices going up up up.
 

bavvo

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It's not the Megabus... :)

No flatbeds? That's a big loss. Anyone know why they couldn't meet safety regulations when a regular bed could? Should they consider couchettes in another form? I think they should.

I'm a bit puzzled by that. Didn't their earlier plans have three classes of accommodation, regular cabins, the new 'flatbed pod' and standard reclining seats? So does this mean they are going back to the same as today, with just cabins or seats? Seems a bit odd, and I can't imagine any safety concern that could be an issue here.

Also if they are going for double beds that implies wider cabins than today, so fewer cabins per coach perhaps?

I like them so far though, they do look like a big improvement. I wonder how much they will go for when they roll out for real?
 

BRX

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Looks quite nice, but the loss of openable windows remains a big shame.
 

Mordac

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As far as I know, Watford Jn, Crewe, Preston and Carlisle are all pick-up only on the Down and set-down only on the Up

Just to confirm, does Up=to London and Down=to Scotland? I'm pretty sure that's it, as it wouldn't make a lot of sense for Watford junction to be pick up only to London. :lol:
 

Altnabreac

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It's not the Megabus... :)

No flatbeds? That's a big loss. Anyone know why they couldn't meet safety regulations when a regular bed could? Should they consider couchettes in another form? I think they should.

Agreed. This is a big loss. I thought the flat bed pods were the thing that could really make a difference to the sleeper going forwards.
 

BRX

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I agree that's a shame if the final design ends up that way.

That's how it's going to be. No openable windows anywhere. I asked CS about this. They said it wasn't possible to have any because of "safety rules" but wouldn't say what these specifically are.

I suspect it's not really true that it's impossible, but it's obviously not something they are interested in considering as part of their "consultation".

Recently read something about one of the Swiss scenic lines providing brand new stock with openable windows in certain locations because they get it that people like them, for photograph if nothing else.

You'd think that the WHL in particular would be ripe for a similar approach, and that some opening windows on the day coach at least would be something that could attract people to the service. Give them something the bus, for example, can't offer.
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Agreed. This is a big loss. I thought the flat bed pods were the thing that could really make a difference to the sleeper going forwards.

Yes. Especially if the berths are going to become more expensive for lone travellers, which seems very likely if there is to be no sharing and if the cabins take up more space.
 

gsnedders

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That's how it's going to be. No openable windows anywhere. I asked CS about this. They said it wasn't possible to have any because of "safety rules" but wouldn't say what these specifically are.

My guess would be the structural rigidity of the coaches doesn't allow openable windows, and with the body shell design already finished it's too late to change.
 

BRX

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My guess would be the structural rigidity of the coaches doesn't allow openable windows, and with the body shell design already finished it's too late to change.

I'd be surprised if that were the reason. Do modern bodyshells rely on the glazing in the windows for structural rigidity?
 

Bletchleyite

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Agreed. This is a big loss. I thought the flat bed pods were the thing that could really make a difference to the sleeper going forwards.

Does anyone know precisely which safety regulation was breached?

Must admit the seats don't look very comfortable at all - I'm sure a better design could have been found even if flatbeds were not an actual option (though I still think they should have tried harder there).
 
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