Caledonian Sleeper Logo

[monkey]

Hi Guys!

First of all I'm no rail expert so be gentle with me! But I am a graphic designer - anyway I do have fascination with the Caledonian Sleeper, its perhaps not as glamorous as many other sleepers in the world, but having used it during the course of this project (more about that in a bit) I adore it and I'd be hard pressed to find a better service experience on the UK rail network - will deffo be using it again if I have the chance.

Anyway as you guys know ScotRail has recently had an identity change, including the livery, designed by the lovely chaps at RedPath in Edinburgh, which is permanent for the forseeable future. This made me think what would happen to the CalSleeper? In my mind it is the perfect opportunity, to create a sub-brand with real value that would last for a long time, and hopefully secure it's long term future, something that could compete with air travel. As it just happens I was leaving Edinburgh at the end of July to London for a music festival - perfect chance to use the CalSleeper! for the past year I would arrive really late into Waverely and I'd see the Sleeper at platform 11 as I was waiting to be picked up, and used to wonder - and now I had an excuse to experience it,woohoo! and to add to the experience, at this time I also had self initiated, summer submission to do for my degree course, I do at Leeds College of Art, and I looked no further than to use this as my brief. Obviously if this was real I'd been briefed by Transport for Scotland, so I had to think like them to write it.... you can read it on my blog: http://volcanicash.tumblr.com/ .

Anyway heres the final piece I came up with, I kinda had a rush to finish, as like most art students I'm poor at time management lol, but I'm happy with the result. theres more to come such as how I would apply it to livery, and promotional material - things I didn't get chance to add, before I had to submit, but I did this project not just to satisfy my academic requirements but cos I am genuinly interested in it.

Anyway I'd love to know from people who love trains more than anyone else, what they think, so thats where you guys come in, it'll help to evaluate my outcome. Cheers!
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[Dai.]

Hello!

I am also a graphic designer -well former graphic designer I am currently focusing on starting a web design firm, corporate identities, websites, fliers, banners, the works.


What you have designed is pretty damn good and I don't think I could have done a better job than that. Sticking with the blue on white of scotrail I can see it on the trains now in all it's glory.


Well done you.

 

[monkey]

...well a lot of research went into the redesigned ScotRail logo itself, and its identity rules, even contacting the design firm RedPath themselves for information. managed to get hold of a pdf of a booklet distributed to ScotRail employes that detailed the identity rules, so I tried to stick to the rules of that.

So used the existing elements to keep it in the family as it were, such as the Scotrail Blue, (forgot the code), the manually obliqued Foundry Form Sans used in the ScotRail mark, and the dot patterns - was a bit of challenge cos frankly I loved doing the project, coudl have easily spent another few weeks on it!!!

 

[Dai.]

It shows that you researched the subject, the result is absolutely amazing,

 

[87031]

Think your logos superb, great the way you have incorporated the Deer onto it. If Scotrail do repaint the coaches that would look great. Totally agree that the Caledonian sleeper is a great train travelled on it a few times during a recent all line rover and loved it every time. One of the few PROPER trains running in this country

 

[monkey]

^^yeah I was like little kid, it was amazing I thought - and I slept like a baby, except when it stopped, I think I liked the rocking motion. was a bit dissappointed, it had no lounge car till cairstairs due to staff shortages, which meant I couldn't get wee dram of whiskey before bed, nor was there a hot brekkie option and I am still wondering where my scotsman was lol .

But on the whole it was very pleasant experience, and the staff really know how to give service with unique scottish smile. definetely more amenable than getting the plane at 4 in the morning... no "red eye" if I was to refer to their ad campaign few years back...

I've got photodiary in my sketchbook, but left my memory card in my flat in leeds, but I'll upload maybe here when I get back... if not it'll more than likely be on my blog...

edit: thanks for the nice comments so far, but I welcome criticism too, so please feel free to comment if you have any...

 

[jamesontheroad]

Congratulations ... I was trained a in related design discipline, but graphic design is an extremely undervalued art in this country. The prevalence of computer software means more and more crap design is being churned out without the once traditional consideration for form, proportion, legibility etc.

Your next step would be to take the proportions of the mk. 3 coaching stock and see how you could apply it to the trains themselves. A great logo is one thing, but how would it work over the long thin shape of a carriage, while meeting accessibility requirements for the doors etc.

One final thing...... please in heaven's name don't become a professional designer that advocates the use of the meaningless, stupid and utterly inane phrase "brought to you by" It's empty, vacuous, marketing-speak; like Asda saying it's "part of the Walmart family" or marketing paragraphs starting "Here at Scotrail, we're passionate about [ insert whatever here ] "

</rant>

 

[JustinStacey.x]

Personally I hated the sleeper... on my way down to London I got hardly any sleep. It was bumpy, the train would jerk and shudder as it left stations and also as it approached them to stop.

On the way back the ride was smoother but every time the driver applied power there was this rather distracting AC hum echoing around my cabin.

Please share your experiences that made it worthwhile!
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Congratulations ... I was trained a in related design discipline, but graphic design is an extremely undervalued art in this country. The prevalence of computer software means more and more crap design is being churned out without the once traditional consideration for form, proportion, legibility etc.

Such is the case for nearly everything with computer software these days. Developers don't seem to care about quality anymore, they're just happy to push out bloated buggy pieces of software because it's easier to code in crappier programming languages and users don't realise that a browser using 300+MB of memory is just crazy.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Nice. Was there an idea behind the field of circles behind the stag? Do they represent something I can't quite see? Forest perhaps?

 

[JustinStacey.x]

The new saltire logo...

 

[monkey]

Congratulations ... I was trained a in related design discipline, but graphic design is an extremely undervalued art in this country. The prevalence of computer software means more and more crap design is being churned out without the once traditional consideration for form, proportion, legibility etc.

...yeah sadly it is true, a lot of people think anyone with photoshop, or illustrater can just design a logo. its not just as straightforward as that, you need to use different mediums, drawing, etc - at the end to give crisp logo, you will have to process it in a program to make the final thing, as logo has to be able to be repeated and look linear, but in order to get a good logo you would have to experiment and mess about not just online but offline to get to the final piece...

Your next step would be to take the proportions of the mk. 3 coaching stock and see how you could apply it to the trains themselves. A great logo is one thing, but how would it work over the long thin shape of a carriage, while meeting accessibility requirements for the doors etc.

...yeah I am gonna continue it, like I say the question was a personal interest as well, not just to fill an academic requirement. just waiting to get all my work back...

One final thing...... please in heaven's name don't become a professional designer that advocates the use of the meaningless, stupid and utterly inane phrase "brought to you by" It's empty, vacuous, marketing-speak; like Asda saying it's "part of the Walmart family" or marketing paragraphs starting "Here at Scotrail, we're passionate about [ insert whatever here ] "

</rant>

^^haha...yeah I was weary about putting that, initially it just had from, but I thought that looked a bit short - and plus b "brought to you by" did seem like somethign ScotRail would use...

Nice. Was there an idea behind the field of circles behind the stag? Do they represent something I can't quite see? Forest perhaps?

...it doesn't mean anything really, was just design flourish. I manage to get a pdf of the identity rules, a booklet of how the new saltire logo and scotrail mark should be used, along with colours, positioning and design flourishes. the blue dots are used on the livery in such a way to break up the expanse fo the dark blue.

I took the approach of an airline I guess, that was the mindset I was trying to use - so looked at some airline logo's, particularly ones that use animals incorporated into the logo's. the reasoning for that is, I don't think of the CalSleeper as just a train, the kind of service it offers is more to compete with a full service domestic airline really - for which it is far superior service, but a at lower price point. obviously it still had to look like ScotRaiil overall, but with a diffrentiation.

so the idea to put the dots in the background kinda just came from looking at airline logo's really, and picking up on their design flourishes and how they've used them in their logo's...

 

[MCR247]

If you wanted to try applying the logo/livery onto actual trains, you could use this (ignoring the PCs) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/Class_43_MK3_East_Midlands_Trains_Diagram.PNG

 

[monkey]

^^oh thanks. the only thing is that doesn't have the SLEP carriages, I know I'm being picky here lol, but I just like to be accurate - still useful though, as I'd probs have to draw it out myself anyway (we're encouraged to do it ourselves), so it be good guide perhaps...

 

[eastwestdivide]

... plus b "brought to you by" did seem like somethign ScotRail would use...

.. I manage to get a pdf of the identity rules, a booklet of how the new saltire logo and scotrail mark should be used, along with colours, positioning and design flourishes. the blue dots are used on the livery in such a way to break up the expanse fo the dark blue.

I took the approach of an airline I guess, that was the mindset I was trying to use - so looked at some airline logo's, particularly ones that use animals incorporated into the logo's. the reasoning for that is, I don't think of the CalSleeper as just a train, the kind of service it offers is more to compete with a full service domestic airline really - for which it is far superior service, but a at lower price point. obviously it still had to look like ScotRaiil overall, but with a diffrentiation.

so the idea to put the dots in the background kinda just came from looking at airline logo's really, and picking up on their design flourishes and how they've used them in their logo's...

Interesting. Those corporate identity rules can be either a help or a hindrance in my experience. Some are way too prescriptive for practicality, while others help you preserve the corporate image really well.

As for "brought to you by", perhaps we could get something more specific like
..
London<>Overnight by X ScotRail
..
, replacing <> with a fancier double arrow and X with the Saltire thing

 

[monkey]

^^thats quite a good idea man!!! see now I'm gonna be messing around with this for while now - I'll give it a go, can't wait to get my sketchbook back...

 

[jamesontheroad]

As for "brought to you by", perhaps we could get something more specific like ...

Sorry, should clarify my opinionated thoughts... instead of "Caledonian Sleeper, brought to you by Scotrail" why can't we just have "Scotrail Caledonian Sleeper" ?

best wishes,

Road, brought to you by Jamesonthe

 

[First ScotRail]

If you look at the latest onboard sleeper literature devised by ScotRail the actual ScotRail logo is distanced on many of the leaflets.

I cant see the logo changing even with the new brand, it is well known and looks great as it is. I devised a mock up sleeper coach seen below:

 

[monkey]

^^yeah I noticed that, I guess my project was hypothetical. Also the reason for it was the current logo for First is this, which is being used withe current First "barbie" livery...

...the one you've used is from when national express ran the franchise, so it's interesting to see it being ressurrected. I was aware of that from the onboard material, when I used it. it does look simple and classy, but I dunno I'd like to see something more interesing done with it. just think it has to be really pushed, for it to survive, and it needs a strong identity for that - I'd hate or it to be axed...

 

[First ScotRail]

The sleeper logo first use on the exterior to the interior is a different font, the external is copperplate gothic light.

The internal is the logo previously used by NX. I don't forsee this changing (especially considering they have just used it for the new literature) however the head of hospitality at SR has/is ordering new vinyls for the sleeper so we shall see!

Also a great deal of publicity goes into the sleeper, with deals for advance members and also a heavy marketing push especially when BA dropped the red eye from their schedule.

Also note new internal posters and newly rebranded cups will appear shortly onboard.

 

[monkey]

^^yeah I kinda don't expect them to, which is sad I guess. but I dunno be nice for it to look nice and smart, becaus it is smart service, friendly staff, its more on a par witha full service airline really. its sort of an ambassador of scotland, a little bit of scotland arrives in euston every morning, 6 days a week, and it be nice if it looked the part.

Also wish they used their own liveried loco's ALL THE TIME, just looks a bit I dunno unproffesional withe ews liveried loco's dragging them...

edit: erm, yeah it is promoted more in Scotland, but having lived in edinburgh for few months, even then a lot of people havn't heard of it or it's slipped their mind its' still running, think it needs to be promoted more. Its certainly less neglected than it was, but perhaps more of push. Also in Euston there is little or no info about the sleeper (its improved, least virgin first class lounge attendant doesn't look bemused when you turn up), be nice if they could push it down south too as an alternative to air travel, cos you can't maintain a one way journey...

 

[jamesontheroad]

I cant see the logo changing even with the new brand, it is well known and looks great as it is. I devised a mock up sleeper coach seen below:

Ah, now this is interesting. There's a potential problem here, or at least a difference between the LCHS and the DMU / EMU fleets. The 156 units that I've seen in and around GLC feature half the saltire cross at the end of each vehicle, meaning that there is a complete saltire cross where two carriages or even two units are coupled together.

(Having seen the 156s, I'd also suggest the light blue dots would also penetrate further along the length of the carriage, thinning out only to reveal the logo)

This doesn't work with the sleeper stock, because as this mocked-up (Hornby?) model shows, the doors are at the very end of the carriage and they have to be completely silver to a) match the identity rules b) meet accessibility/visibility requirements. It's interesting you've placed the entire Saltire cross somewhere in the middle of the carriage as a solution.

I'm not sure about the Copperplate Gothic Light, however, doesn't seem to suit a visual identity with is otherwise completely sans serif.

 

[merlodlliw]

As a Welsh Gog, I think the design is excellent thread one ,well done. The St Andrews cross above is too big,reminds me of 40s era.

 

[Mojo]

lf anyone's interested, the Rolling Stock exterior guidelines are here: http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/files/ScotRailGuidelines_RollingStockExteriors.pdf

and the index with everything else is here: http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk...reement-contents/ScotRail-branding-guidelines

'jamesontheroad' is right to say about the font - according to section 1 of the above, only Officina Sans Bold, Officina Sans Book and Officina Serif Bold should be used.

 

[37401]

fantastic stuff

 

[monkey]

'jamesontheroad' is right to say about the font - according to section 1 of the above, only Officina Sans Bold, Officina Sans Book and Officina Serif Bold should be used.

^^that is true, but only as an ancillary font. the font used in the ScotRail mark and tagline is a modified Foundry Form Sans by David Quays - so is what would be used for any sub-branded logo's etc. it took a lot finding that out, cos both Transport for Scotland and ScotRail said the logo's font was officina, which it is evidently not looking at it's characteristics...

 

[Mojo]

^^that is true, but only as an ancillary font. the font used in the ScotRail mark and tagline is a modified Foundry Form Sans by David Quays - so is what would be used for any sub-branded logo's etc. it took a lot finding that out, cos both Transport for Scotland and ScotRail said the logo's font was officina, which it is evidently not looking at it's characteristics...

Yeah l saw that from your original post but looking in the document it said that anything else to be added to liveries should be in that font.

 

[monkey]

...yeah I guess in terms of the guides audience that would be true, as the guide is aimed at regular ScotrRail staff. But the guide does not make it clear as to what that would mean , for brands spun off from the parent brand. This means for leaflets, posters, information sheets, letterheads, this would apply, but not to a new sub-brand logo.

From a corporate identity perspective as a graphic designer, using officina wouldn't make sense to create a sub brand for the CalSleeper, as this wouldn't flow with the overal design of the idenity. so to give continuity Foundry Form Sans would have to be used, that's my reasoning anyway.

Of course there are no dead set rules for coroporate identity and the old nx one could be used, but generally in graphics we are encouraged to keep typefaces to minimum as it clutters up the design...

edit: modified the logo a bit to give it a better flow (increased spacing of letters in "caledonian")...

 

[jopsuk]

lf anyone's interested, the Rolling Stock exterior guidelines are here: http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/files/ScotRailGuidelines_RollingStockExteriors.pdf

and the index with everything else is here: http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk...reement-contents/ScotRail-branding-guidelines

'jamesontheroad' is right to say about the font - according to section 1 of the above, only Officina Sans Bold, Officina Sans Book and Officina Serif Bold should be used.

Interesting that in the exterior document, the 318, 320 and 322 fleets are missed out, and they forgot the orange warning stripe on the 170 (there's also something bizarre going on at the left end cab of the 170). Scaling on the page with the 156 and 158 is odd too (they should be near enough the same length). I realise it is just supposed to be an example, but still, sloppy.

 

[me123]

I love that logo!!! Would you be able to sell it to Scotrail?
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Interesting that in the exterior document, the 318, 320 and 322 fleets are missed out, and they forgot the orange warning stripe on the 170 (there's also something bizarre going on at the left end cab of the 170). Scaling on the page with the 156 and 158 is odd too (they should be near enough the same length). I realise it is just supposed to be an example, but still, sloppy.

They also show the 314 painting, which as far as I know won't happen! They'll be lucky even to get the logo on the side.

 

[First ScotRail]

The First Group Sleeper wording (ON BARBIE) was Copperplate Gothic Light, however on my mock up I have used the old NX ScotRail logo which SR uses on its internal literature. Placing the X in the middle, I decided as the main focus of the new SR identity is based on the saltire, and by placing it in the middle it makes prominence, however retaining the existing ScotRail bright blue spots and silver doors. Remember the sleeper stock used to have the old SR logo in the middle?

No doubt ScotRail already have a new livery planned so it will be intereting to see what they come up with.

Personally I cant ever see ScotRail giving the sleeper its own seperate identity/logo as the main focus now is on continuity throughout the rail network in Scotland, including the sleepers.

On the topic of fonts, ScotRail used Sans Book on ALL wording in sleeper leaflets (bar headings) and the Sleeper logo is displayed at the bottom, as below: